Saul of Tarsus was not saved on the road to Damascus.

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posthuman

posthuman

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#181
Jul 31, 2013
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#181
Beckworth said:
OBEY the gospel of Jesus Christ
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The gospel is this: "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved"

the gospel isn't "do these things and you will be saved" - that is the law, and by it no one is saved. see Galatians 3.

so yes, certainly, unbelief is disobedience, because the word our God spoke to us was "believe"
 
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Burn1986

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Mar 4, 2024
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#182
9 pages arguing
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Agree, Cornelius was a quick take. The penitent woman (Luke 7:37-50), the paralytic man (Matthew 9:2), the publican (Luke 18:13-14), are probably better examples. We agree on the point, water baptism doesn't save a person.
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What about a person gets saved and as they’re getting dunked in the lake, an alligator grabs them and they never come back up? I may have to look that one up for commentary.
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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#185
Aug 3, 2018
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#185
Burn1986 said:
Yep Cornelius wasn’t a good example because he was baptized. The point is that while water baptism is important, if a person has a deathbed conversion, gets saved but dies on the way to the baptistery, or in some way isn’t able to get water baptized before death, they will still go to Heaven.
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Right! (y)


... because this (the verses below) was already true (of that person ^ ):

Col2:12 -

"being buried with him in the baptism [with definite article in the Grk], in which also ye rose with him through the faith of the working/operation of God, who did raise him out of the dead."





... which is the same as the following:

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" - Rom6:3


[notice: the text is not referencing "baptized into 'water'"--neither of these texts are]
 
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Burn1986

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Mar 4, 2024
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#186
There’s no winners in this. We all leave this discussion more committed to our beliefs than when we started.
 
Mem

Mem

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#189
Sep 23, 2014
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#189
Burn1986 said:
Pretty much
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But wait! There's more!

sorry, I hate to waste an opening...

You not only get one, not two, but three sham wows with each thread!

And if you didn't see what I did there, look again! :sneaky:
 
Mem

Mem

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#190
Paul was saved "at that moment" that he "arose" (from the dead) and was baptized in the name of the Lord, standing on the reputation of Jesus the Son of God, no one calls on the name of anyone they don't "believe" in. At that moment, Paul "stood", and went "all in," with all his heart, all his mind, and all his "muchness" (which would include all his spirit).
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#191
Jul 18, 2017
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#191
Burn1986 said:
9 pages arguing
What about a person gets saved and as they’re getting dunked in the lake, an alligator grabs them and they never come back up? I may have to look that one up for commentary.
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What of it? Their life on earth ended, but their soul and spirit went to Heaven.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#192
hornetguy said:
Cornelius and his household were all baptized....
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AFTER they received the gift of the Holy Spirit. That was solid proof of their salvation. And the reason Peter "commanded" them to be baptized is because the Lord commanded all the apostles and their companions -- indeed the whole Church -- to baptize IMMEDIATELY after a person gets saved. And that is precisely what you see in the NT. Paul and Silas baptized the household of the Philippian jailer shortly after midnight. But rarely does any church today follow this NT pattern. Some churches even falsely teach that baptism if for church membership their their church.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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#193
Jan 17, 2023
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#193
Burn1986 said:
9 pages arguing
What about a person gets saved and as they’re getting dunked in the lake, an alligator grabs them and they never come back up? I may have to look that one up for commentary.
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Let me know what you find out about that one!!
 
Lamar

Lamar

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May 21, 2023
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posthuman said:
exceptions prove a thing isn't actually a rule :unsure:
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Exceptions do not negate or disprove a rule or law.

There are exceptions to many laws, they are called acts of mercy.

It is not wise to hope for an exception when purposely ignoring the law.

I would think you would know this?
 
Lamar

Lamar

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Burn1986 said:
9 pages arguing
What about a person gets saved and as they’re getting dunked in the lake, an alligator grabs them and they never come back up? I may have to look that one up for commentary.
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Your reasoning sounds like that of the Sadducees.

"What about the person?" or "What about this scenario?" or "What about this loophole?"

Mark 12:18-27
New International Version
Marriage at the Resurrection
18 Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 19 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother. 20 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married and died without leaving any children. 21 The second one married the widow, but he also died, leaving no child. It was the same with the third. 22 In fact, none of the seven left any children. Last of all, the woman died too. 23 At the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?”
24 Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? 25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 26 Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the account of the burning bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”

Faith Alone Regeneration Theology is and has always been a theology based on negating one verse with another.

Your alligator theory is an example of a seared mind.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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#196
Nehemiah6 said:
That is pure NONSENSE. When Christ said: Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God, what exactly did He mean? If you know your Bible you should also know that in Scripture water is used AS A METAPHOR for (1) the Word of God, and more specifically the Gospel, and (2) the Holy Spirit.

And because this is true about the Gospel, this is what Peter says (1 Peter 1:23-25): Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of WGod, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

So you can clearly see your absolutely false teaching about water baptism. The Cathoic Church insists -- as do you -- that a person is regenerated by water baptism. As though H2O has any spiritual power!
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Water has no spiritual power, but God sure does. And to refuse to accept what He says about water baptism because one thinks it foolish is not wise.

All detailed conversion accounts in Word of God reveal being born again involves both water and Spirit. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16) The accounts confirm what Jesus was referring to in John 3:3-5.
 
Lamar

Lamar

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#197
Nehemiah6 said:
AFTER they received the gift of the Holy Spirit. That was solid proof of their salvation.
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The spirit of tongues does not "prove" salvation.

The Bible records a number on times God has send "spirits" upon people, this does not imply a certain status upon those individuals.

Nehemiah6 said:
And the reason Peter "commanded" them to be baptized is because the Lord commanded all the apostles and their companions -- indeed the whole Church -- to baptize IMMEDIATELY after a person gets saved
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This understanding flies in the face of Acts 2:38 in which Peter "commands" those who believed to be baptized so that their sins would be forgiven and receive the Holy Spirit.
Nehemiah6 said:
And that is precisely what you see in the NT. Paul and Silas baptized the household of the Philippian jailer shortly after midnight. But rarely does any church today follow this NT pattern. Some churches even falsely teach that baptism if for church membership their their church.
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These churches have nothing to do with the issue at hand. You do this with the Catholic Church also.
 
Lamar

Lamar

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May 21, 2023
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posthuman said:
The gospel is this: "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved"

the gospel isn't "do these things and you will be saved" - that is the law, and by it no one is saved. see Galatians 3.

so yes, certainly, unbelief is disobedience, because the word our God spoke to us was "believe"
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We may debate what must be obeyed but not the need to obey.

Correct?
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Burn1986 said:
What about arguing? Each thread ends up the same - at some point you end up convinced if a person has done everything else but is not water baptized, they go to hell. According to you, Cornelius and his whole household went to hell. And yes, the thief on the cross with Jesus went to hell. Every person who asked Jesus into their heart but wasn’t water baptized went to hell. I wonder what spirit is motivating such confusion and rigidity with this belief?
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The word says everyone living after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection must be water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of their sin. It is love for others that compels me to share this truth. As uncomfortable as it may be, refusing to accept God's word will bring judgement. He is a just God and can not go against His own word. He is no respecter of persons; His word applies to everyone.


Consider Jesus' own words:
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, AND FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT." Matt 7:13-14




As for Cornelius and his whole household they obeyed Peter's command and were baptized in water in the name of Jesus.

And the thief on the cross was not required to be water baptized in the name of Jesus. That command was instituted in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost. (Luke 24:47, Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)
 
CS1

CS1

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Beckworth said:
Saul of Tarsus persecuted Christians UNTIL…he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Acts 9 He was blinded by a very bright light but Jesus talked to him and told him,” I am Jesus…” Saul BELIVED and asked Jesus, “What do you want me to do?” Let’s just stop right here and ask yourself what do preachers today say Saul should do right here?
Some would say, “ There is NOTHING you need to do. You ‘believe’ so you are saved.”
Some would say, “ Just repeat the ‘sinner’s prayer’ and you will be saved.”
Some would say, “ Just accept Jesus in your heart and you will be saved.”
Some would say he was saved because he had a “religious experience.”
So what did JESUS say? He told Saul to go into the city and there he would be told WHAT HE MUST DO! Obviously, there was MORE he needed to do to be saved than just believe. If not, then why did Jesus say that?
Saul spent 3 days in Damascus fasting and praying. Evidence of REPENTANCE but no evidence that he “prayed through” to salvation. Finally, Ananias came to him and told him to “Arise, and be BAPTIZED and wash away your sins.” Saul still had his SINS three days after he BELIEVED, and REPENTED. This was what “he was told he must do.”
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The Problem with your opinion here is the text doesn't say that:

Acts 9:10-17

10 Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, “Ananias.”

And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”

11 So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying. 12 And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”

13 Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”

15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”

17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.


Paul, known as Saul, was praying and saw Ananias coming to him in a vision.

Jesus said Paul was a Chosen Vessel." Therefore, Jesus saved him. On the Road to Damascus. Paul's very testimony to Kings and rulers was the Meeting on the road to Damascus. Many times read in Acts, Paul called the very experience His testimony of salvation.
 
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