Sending The Comforter to us

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M

MaryM

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Nov 25, 2022
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#1
In John 16, v.7 it is written that Jesus said He must go away in order that He could send the Comforter, The Holy Spirit to the disciples.
So while Christ was here on earth as a man, the Holy Spirit was not here.
Have I understood correctly and what does it mean? It was quite a while before the Holy Spirit came.
 
wolfwint

wolfwint

Senior Member
#2
Feb 15, 2014
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#2
MaryM said:
In John 16, v.7 it is written that Jesus said He must go away in order that He could send the Comforter, The Holy Spirit to the disciples.
So while Christ was here on earth as a man, the Holy Spirit was not here.
Have I understood correctly and what does it mean? It was quite a while before the Holy Spirit came.
Click to expand...
Well, in the time before pentecost. We only read that the Holy Spirit was a limitet time upon people ( like prophets) most for an certain purpose.
Since pentcost the Holy Spirit is living in the believer. And is not going and coming. Thats why I cant understand that some believers often ask the Holy Spirit to come in them. Ore singing Songs with this item.
Thats the different to the time before pentecost. Now he lives in us and we are sealed with Him.
 
Blade

Blade

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Nov 19, 2019
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#3
MaryM said:
In John 16, v.7 it is written that Jesus said He must go away in order that He could send the Comforter, The Holy Spirit to the disciples.
So while Christ was here on earth as a man, the Holy Spirit was not here.
Have I understood correctly and what does it mean? It was quite a while before the Holy Spirit came.
Click to expand...
Yeah Christ said as long as He is here the sweet sweet holy Spirit will not come. The same GOD that said John 3:16-17 also said Luke 11:13 :) Its not what I say or any other person.. if He said it .. He will do it. Sometimes we ask way to many questions. Once He told me to do something.. I was like why? Haha He came right back with "when God tells you to do something you don't question it you just do it". So if HE said it.. just do it :)
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

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Jun 11, 2018
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Hello @MaryM, like @wolfwint just said, the Holy Spirit has always been with us (e.g. Genesis 1:1-2), but now, since the AD 33 Pentecost following the Ascension, He is with us in a very special way (in the life of every believer, that is), as we are permanently indwelt by Him now :giggle:

This happened in the OT also (the indwelling of God's people by the Holy Spirit, that is), but for short periods of time (in the case of those tasked with constructing the various items for worship at the Tent of Meeting, for instance) and for longer, ongoing periods as well (King David makes this clear for us in his lament to the Lord to forgive him of the great sins, of covetousness, murder and adultery, that he had just committed, but we also see that even though the Spirit continued to indwell him after he had sinned, the OT indwelling, while ongoing in some cases, was not necessarily a permanent indwelling, like it always is today).
​
Psalm 51​
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God;​
And renew a right spirit within me. ​
11 Cast me not away from Thy presence;​
And ~take not Thy Holy Spirit from me~. ​
12 Restore unto me the joy of Thy salvation;​
And uphold me with a willing spirit. ​
​
As a final thought about this, those who are saved, whether OT or New, were/are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, which is why we know that Kind David was still in a saved state, even after sinning in the horrible ways that he did (that he asked God to restore the "joy" of His salvation, not salvation itself is additional evidence that this is true).

The Apostle Paul speaks of 2nd operation of the Spirit in the lives of believers (one that is not necessarily permanent) called the filling of the Holy Spirit. Here's a short article about that if you'd care to read it (or watch/listen to it, as this article includes a video with the very same text).

We can talk more about this too (being filled w/the Spirit), if you'd care to do so :)


God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy (David)
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

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#5
Sep 4, 2013
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#5
Actually, since Pentecost, the Holy Spirit has been here on earth with man.

First: We are baptized by the Holy Spirit upon salvation when He applies the saving blood of Jesus. This being the "one baptism" spoken of in Scripture.

Second: When we receive sanctification by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, He resides within us as our teacher, counselor, guide, protector, and reveals to us the spiritual discernment of Scripture. This occurs when one or more sanctified believers lays hands on and prays over a new believer. While they are saved, they are not sanctified until this occurs.

Before Pentecost there were no sanctified believers because the Holy Spirit had not yet come down to us from the Throne of God. This is why Scripture reports how the Holy Spirit fell upon all of those in the upper room as tongues of fire. The Holy Spirit sanctified all those present (men and women) and gave them the gifts to accomplish what God had chosen them to accomplish. After that, sanctification came as I described above. Recorded in Acts when the Apostle Paul prayed over believers who only knew the baptism of John and not the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Luke, Chapter 24:

45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48And ye are witnesses of these things.

49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
 
B

Burn1986

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#6
Mar 4, 2024
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#6
MaryM said:
In John 16, v.7 it is written that Jesus said He must go away in order that He could send the Comforter, The Holy Spirit to the disciples.
So while Christ was here on earth as a man, the Holy Spirit was not here.
Have I understood correctly and what does it mean? It was quite a while before the Holy Spirit came.
Click to expand...
Yeah.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#7
Sep 2, 2020
14,639
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#7
MaryM said:
In John 16, v.7 it is written that Jesus said He must go away in order that He could send the Comforter, The Holy Spirit to the disciples.
So while Christ was here on earth as a man, the Holy Spirit was not here.
Have I understood correctly and what does it mean? It was quite a while before the Holy Spirit came.
Click to expand...
The Holy Spirit was in Jesus while he was on earth

“to whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:3-5, 8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


After he went to heaven he received the spirit and sent it forth into the world

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:46‬ ‭


“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
B

Burn1986

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Mar 4, 2024
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#8
its important to not get into the weeds to much on this. You don’t have understand or k ow everything to receive the Holy Spirit. There’s a reason Jesus spoke in generalities and parables.
 
R

reneweddaybyday

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#9
Mar 23, 2016
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#9
MaryM said:
In John 16, v.7 it is written that Jesus said He must go away in order that He could send the Comforter, The Holy Spirit to the disciples.
So while Christ was here on earth as a man, the Holy Spirit was not here.
Have I understood correctly and what does it mean? It was quite a while before the Holy Spirit came.
Click to expand...
As mentioned above, Holy Spirit has been active from the time of creation ... we just live in a time in which the activity as described in verses after John 16:7 takes place:

John 16:

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

When Jesus spoke those words, He was giving instruction to His apostles just prior to His crucifixion. He was giving them vital information and He was encouraging them ... telling them He would not leave them without the help they needed after He was no longer with them in person.

In vs 12, Jesus told them they were unable to bear the many things He had yet to tell them but once the Spirit of truth is come, the Spirit would guide them into all truth. The same Holy Spirit which was received on Day of Pentecost is the same Holy Spirit each believer receives the moment he or she is born again ... and the instruction of the Lord Jesus Christ that night when He spoke to His apostles is the same instruction to us.

Holy Spirit within the believer in our day and time:

– guides us in truth​
– speaks not of Himself but speaks what He hears​
– glorifies and reveals the Lord Jesus Christ ​

We truly live in a wondrous time and God has provided to us all we need in order to bear the things we endure in our lives. God is so faithful and loving :cool:
.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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#10
MaryM said:
So while Christ was here on earth as a man, the Holy Spirit was not here.
Click to expand...
Yes. In one sense He was not here until the day of Pentecost, when the Father and the Son send down the Holy Spirit.

But since He is also God the Holy Spirit, He has always been present. When Christ was on earth the Holy Spirit remained in the background, and the Father was not seen ever by men.
 
wattie

wattie

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Feb 24, 2009
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#11
Nehemiah6 said:
Yes. In one sense He was not here until the day of Pentecost, when the Father and the Son send down the Holy Spirit.

But since He is also God the Holy Spirit, He has always been present. When Christ was on earth the Holy Spirit remained in the background, and the Father was not seen ever by men.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is why I have an issue with seperating the HS, Son and Father out from each-other. I see the seperation as distinctions in the one God... but not different beings.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Burn1986 said:
it’s important to not get into the weeds too much on this. You don’t have understand or k ow everything to receive the Holy Spirit. There’s a reason Jesus spoke in generalities and parables.
Click to expand...
Parables aren’t generalities

“And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country. And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard. And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty. And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled. And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some. Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son. But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be our's. And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard. What shall therefore the Lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others. And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected Is become the head of the corner: This was the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭12:1-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is telling the story of Israel’s constant rebellion against God and all the prophets and messengers he sent them and how he had at last sent the messiah to them and they would reject and kill him , then he would destroy them and give the kingdom to others

Going back to the fact that they rejected the messiah who is the most important and foundational stone of faith and salvation of life itself and how God took tbier rebellion and rejection and blessed all nations because of it

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden ( Israel and the early prophets ) to the wedding: and they would not come.

Again, he sent forth other servants, ( the latter prophets ) saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. ( Jerusalem persecuted and killed the prophets God sent them ) But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. ( Jerusalem was to be destroyed )

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. ( Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creatures whoever believes will be saved )

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-10‬ ‭

this again is showing Israel’s rejection of Gods prophets and tbe messiah and the curse that came because of it upon them the destruction and desolation of Jerusalem was soon after this


“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

those parables actually hold answers and clear messages of what’s been done and why how things are in his kingdom in many cases they reconcile many points for us he spoke in parables because it was what the prophets had foretold when they foresaw it speaking forth hidden things from the beginnings of the earth

“All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:34-35‬ ‭

Those parables hold so much clarity and understanding of his plans for mankind Jesus truly had a unique way of creaking to mankind teaching them of God ….but then again Jesus is a very unique person being God in the flesh speaking to man things beyond them
 
B

Burn1986

Active member
#13
Mar 4, 2024
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#13
Pilgrimshope said:
Parables aren’t generalities

“And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country. And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard. And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty. And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled. And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some. Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son. But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be our's. And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard. What shall therefore the Lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others. And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected Is become the head of the corner: This was the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭12:1-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is telling the story of Israel’s constant rebellion against God and all the prophets and messengers he sent them and how he had at last sent the messiah to them and they would reject and kill him , then he would destroy them and give the kingdom to others

Going back to the fact that they rejected the messiah who is the most important and foundational stone of faith and salvation of life itself and how God took tbier rebellion and rejection and blessed all nations because of it

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden ( Israel and the early prophets ) to the wedding: and they would not come.

Again, he sent forth other servants, ( the latter prophets ) saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. ( Jerusalem persecuted and killed the prophets God sent them ) But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. ( Jerusalem was to be destroyed )

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. ( Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creatures whoever believes will be saved )

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-10‬ ‭

this again is showing Israel’s rejection of Gods prophets and tbe messiah and the curse that came because of it upon them the destruction and desolation of Jerusalem was soon after this


“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

those parables actually hold answers and clear messages of what’s been done and why how things are in his kingdom in many cases they reconcile many points for us he spoke in parables because it was what the prophets had foretold when they foresaw it speaking forth hidden things from the beginnings of the earth

“All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:34-35‬ ‭

Those parables hold so much clarity and understanding of his plans for mankind Jesus truly had a unique way of creaking to mankind teaching them of God ….but then again Jesus is a very unique person being God in the flesh speaking to man things beyond them
Click to expand...
Well, in regard to receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit it’s important to keep it simple, and realize there is not a formula, and that there is a little faith involved, just like salvation. You don’t have to fully understand it to receive it (just like tongues or other gifts of the spirit).
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#14
Sep 2, 2020
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#14
Burn1986 said:
Well, in regard to receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit it’s important to keep it simple, and realize there is not a formula, and that there is a little faith involved, just like salvation. You don’t have to fully understand it to receive it (just like tongues or other gifts of the spirit).
Click to expand...
Yea it’s basic and simple and is based on believing. I agree like this

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they heard what Peter was saying and didn’t reject it and received the Holy Ghost which is his promise

The thing is receiving the Holy Ghost doesn’t remit anyone’s sin in Jesus name that’s what baptism is for it’s the same thing you hear about it , believe what you hear and act upon it notice the very first thing Peter commanded after they received the spirit ?

“….Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the reason we get baptized in Jesus name is this



“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

these two things do not cancel out the other they work together one remits sin by Christs death for our sins the other gives new birth and identity as the children of God in Christ. It’s why baptism is done in his name

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water ( remission of sins )

and of the Spirit, ( new birth in Christ the son as children ) he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:36-39‬ ‭

a there’s no formula … no there’s just believing what God has designed and said for us to believe and do and be saved baptism isn’t a work it’s an act of faith all we do is show up acknolwedge our sins the baptizer does the work of lower us and raising us up from the water in Jesus name

this is something that came from the holy spirit a desing and command of God. That holds a promise of the remission of our sins in Jesus name

Spirit and water are one baptism like when Jesus was baptized but yes receiving the Holy Ghost comes only by hearing and believing the truth of the gospel it’s simple and requires only the heart to believe based only in Gods promise

and so is baptism for remission of sins the reason we do it is God promised to remit sin on Jesus name who died for our sin

It’s an act of faith that came from the Holy Ghost though John sent of God and filled with the holy ghost from birth baptism is based on faith also herring and believing

communion also based on faith hearing and believing really everything we do and n Jesus name is based upon faith we heard the doctrine and beiieve and so we act faith is truly simple but it has to come from here is the struggle

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We often tend to reject alot of what the lord teaches and just tell people we have faith which is counter productive to faith



 
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