There will be no Rapture!!!

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

yeah not really to that particular verse in Micah but yes the remnant of Israel those who didn’t reject the messiah but instead repented and believed at first there were about 500 after Jesus rose then the church began to grow

My point to you is the remnant of israel is the original church all of Jesus disciples he only preached to them first they became the church when they received the spirit at pentocost

and then everyone else who is converted whether Jew or gentile afterwards are all included with them by faith in Christ Jesus

until the end of time God is adding souls to his church there isnt a church then and one now it’s still growing person by person by the exact same doctrine then same spirit then same name of Jesus then

The remnant who believed the messiah became the firstfruits of God and set up his church and spread his word and even today people are converted through thier words to chrirtianity and the church making them also a child of God in Christ and hiers of Abraham and his promises

In other words

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ( Gods only son ) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s only Jesus in the eyes of God that’s worthy not israel or gentile but only the one man Jesus Christ is worthy. To belong to God we have to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ. It doesn’t matter if we were the original church ( the remnant of Israel who believed the messiah when he came ) or a Christian today it’s all one group, facing the same enemy in the same fallen world waiting for the same lord from heaven

You see Jesus go into heaven here in revelation

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5‬ ‭

then you see Satan cast into the earth making war against all those who have his testimony the gospel and obey God.
This is talking the early church who Jesus gave the great commission

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when they did that we understand from the book of acts what happened to them

“And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judæa and Samaria, except the apostles. As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison. Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:1, 3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We know also it grew and became worse and worse and we know from history that eventually in ad 67-70 rome besieged and totally raised Jerusalem to the ground slaughtering and exiling Jews and Christian’s eventually leading to the Jewish dispersia and scattering of Israel’s remnant into all nations carrying the gospel as well as by that time gentile chrirtians who escaped the Roman persecutions into other lands carrying the same gospel

Revelation needs a perpetual frame of thought and one to have read the prophets carefully to see it’s visions

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what’s your point I can hardly ever tell

right his throne

“I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:5‬ ‭

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So yeah His throne seems simple enough and self explainitory

jesus is the Lord

Here, are you saying that "Jesus" is the "Father"?




My apologies, but I still am unclear what you mean by (the part in bold / blue), "... who was given all creation into his hands to rule as king of kings after he rose up he was taken up to his throne"


[again, see my quoted post at top, for the Rev3:21 verse]




Where it is stated in Luke 1:32b, "and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David"... this refers to an earthly-located throne. It was not "relocated" to Heaven when Jesus ascended, as the "Amill-teachings" (and others) incorrectly teach.



____________


In Matt25:31-34 and 19:28, it speaks of the time (in the future) when He will come to the earth and sit on "the throne of His glory" (earthly-located); At that same time/era, "the 12" will [also] "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel" (Acts 17:31 also speaks to that future age [the MK age]; as does Matt12:32 and Matt8:11 and parallel... and Luke 19:12,15,17,19... and many other passages too numerous to mention here).


In an earlier post, I also spelled out Acts 3:21 and its point ("whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive UNTIL the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age.")... and I had pointed out the TWO distinct "RAISE" issues in Acts 3 (which the "Amill-teachings" disregard, in order to come up with their flawed "throne-change-of-location-up-to-Heaven" concept, regarding this).

Ahhh, but I never said we are not having tribulation now. You create things in your mind that do not exist in my writing.

Wait, you don't think the War in Heaven happened yet and God booted Satan out?

Even knowing Jesus said He saw Satan fall like lightning?

Majority of them claim the Rapture won't be a secret.
Only the pre-trib position has to make this claim.
The Bible doesn't even claim it will be a secret.

Right (if I understand you correctly, here).

That is why I pointed out the CONNECTION between:


--Rev12"s 1) "woman" (who gives birth to) 2) "the man child," and 3) (has also) "the remnant [of her seed]";


--Micah 5:3's 1) "she" (who gives birth to) 2) the one born [/birthed from her], and 3) "the remnant [of his brethren...]"




In each passage, there are THREE ENTITIES (not just two);


...and YES[!] I do *connect* the Revelation 12 passage TO this Micah 5:3 correlation.

I'm not just trying to ascertain Rev12's meaning APART FROM "reading" (as you say) any other passage of scripture, thus in effect making it say something entirely "made up" and completely "out of the blue" (lol).
No, I AGREE that scripture "ties things together" very nicely. = )




In the Micah 5:3 verse (being distinct from Jesus' Own Birth in 5:2!), it says, "THEREFORE WILL HE GIVE THEM UP UNTIL..." ;

so, in CONTEXT (of course), who and what is this ^ talking about (in the bold ^ ), according to your understanding of it?
(Who is the "he"? Who is the "them"? What is the "until" about? etc)

You are the definition of feigning mental incompetence as a means to frustrate the one you wish to oppose.

The Rapture is a sure thing.
But, only sure for those who are sure about being saved.

Right.

"WOE unto you that desire the day of the Lord"

... which becomes problematic to readers of the text in 1Th5:1-3 who have no qualms about changing the text there to say (instead), "THE LORD so cometh as a thief in the night".


But the text does NOT say that.



It says, "the DAY of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night"... (i.e. A TIME PERIOD which arrives such, not His Person!)


... and that is not speaking of merely "a singular 24-hr day" kind of day; again, NOR is it speaking of (as written above, changed to instead say [as I've heard many people do]), "THE LORD so cometh as a thief in the night." This is how it gets all twisted to supposedly be referring to "the 24-hr day of His RETURN" (i.e. His Second Coming to the earth Rev19);

but this text in 1Th5:1-3 (as well as Amos 5:18 you mentioned) is NOT speaking to THAT point in the chronology.

(Same for Paul's 2nd epistle to them, where he also mentions this phrase [the content/Subject of the "false claim" 2:2] and its RELATED phrase "IN THAT DAY" [i.e. the same TIME PERIOD!])

^ Contrast that ("WOE unto you that DESIRE the day of the Lord" [i.e. a TIME-PERIOD of JUDGMENTS unfolding upon the earth over SOME TIME]), to what we see in Phil3 -


Phl 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;
Phl 3:21
who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

Can you show to me any statement in that parable spoken to the King of Babylon where it says anything about a war, or that Satan was kicked out of Heaven and confined to this earth, because I can show to you what is said AFTER that parable you are assuming was that war, and there Satan is, still in Haven, standing before the Lord:

Zechariah 3:1-2
1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: [is] not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

I'm sure you will argue from silence again, which is sometimes valid, and sometimes not, so roll the dice...

MM

Will you define what you mean by that term "secret"? How does millions of people disappearing translate over into a secret? Will the remainder of the people who lost family members, spouses, neighbors, basses, church leaders and fellow members...et al, how do you define "secret" in that scenario as the context?

MM

You know, it's interesting that the Thessalonians were so disturbed over a letter or message from a false teacher, or a spirit...whatever or whomever it was, that told them that the tribulation was already at hand, was upon them. If Paul had ever taught them that silly doctrine of the Church having to endure half, most or all of the tribulation, why were they so upset? If Paul had taught them that they would go through any part of the tribulation, why would they have been upset over the idea of it already being upon them? They would have been prepared for the onset of it, but they weren't.

The nay-sayers out there will argue all manner of argumentation against this, coming up with all kinds of kooky and downright stupid arguments against what is rationally the only avenue of reason as to explaining the worry over this that was bothering the believers in Thessalonica. Paul had obviously taught them that the Church "...is not appointed unto wrath...," and will therefore be delivered before the man of sin is even revealed, as stated in 2 Thessalonians 2. The nay-sayers like to claim that the topic is the Second Coming. Well, those are the members of the First Church of the Masochists who obviously WANT to be here to see how tough they are at withstanding the wrath of the Lamb being poured out upon the whole earth. It's almost as if they're shaking their fists at the Lord, daring Him to pour out upon the earth what they can't withstand...

They also like to claim "day of the Lord" is the Second coming rather than to admit the entire period, including the Second coming, is the "day of the Lord." We ALL use language of that type to refer to entire periods of time, something encompassing decades and even centuries. We've ALL used phraseology such as, "Well, back in the day...," and that not literally referring to just one day, but some people out there will pretend that such is not the case, and that people of other languages could not possibly have utilized the same style looseness in language since this was allegedly an invention of English speaking people only.

The Greek word translated "falling away" ALSO means "departure," which is exactly how almost ALL the Bibles translated that term around the time of the KJV first publication in 1611. The 1599 Geneva Bible did so, and long with almost all the others.

What this means is that Paul was not referring to a departure from the faith, but rather the departure from this earth. It's ONLY those who believe such nonsense as someone allegedly being able to become "unborn again," because people who have only given lip service to following Christ Jesus, but were never truly born again, who have fallen away. That's been going on for centuries, so there's nothing new about that at all. So that crap about Darby allegedly being the one who invented the "pre-trib rapture theory" is nothing more than the lazy cow cud they chew while totally abandoning critical thought and research into historic doctrines and who held that belief LONG before Darby was ever a twinkle in his daddy's eye.

Anyway, good stuff.

MM

Satan thrown down like lightning was about the prehistoric war that was fought on earth before Adam was created!
Its why we find fossils today of animals that have nothing to do with this creation.

Jeremiah was dealing with the degenerated - murderous - rebellious Jewish people.
To tell them how severe they were going to be judged by God?
Jeremiah cited Genesis 1:2!
Why Genesis 1:2? It was to warn them of how severe God was going to judge them!

When citing Genesis 1:2 in the Hebrew the Jews knew Hebrew did not need to look at a concordance.
They knew what Jeremiah was prophesying about for them!

Just the same..
Jeremiah needed to add something after citing Genesis 1:2.
Added as to let the Jews know something.
That unlike what the earth had become in Genesis 1:2?
In their case, unlike the earth was found in 1:2, they would not be utterly destroyed!
Utter destruction is what we find in the Hebrew describing the earth in Genesis 1:2!

Meaning...
Unlike the destruction the earth faced in Genesis 1:2?
Their land and life would not be utterly destroyed!
Destroyed as God had done to the prehistoric world!

That is why Satan was THROWN DOWN to earth like lightning!
Which resulted in the extinction of the dinosaurs!
Which some scientists now hypothesize was destruction by a giant asteroid.
Satan had been the morning star angel to bring light to earth for mornings in the prehistoric world!

Here is the influence we are witnessing to....



We have got to face it. Including those who have been following their line of reasoning...


grace and peace ......

As no one will see Jesus in the "secret Rapture" like they will at His second coming.

Amen!

I firmly believe this view.

Sounds like those scholars allegorized it all to fit their preconceptions. If scholars were infallible, then they would all agree with one another, but given the harsh realities....

MM