The tree of knowledge of good and evil

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posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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From what I understand, Muhammad was given a book, the Quran, from an angel named Gabriel, the same angel that told Mary she would conceive a child of the Holy Ghost.
from what i understand, Muhammed was a liar, and was given words from a demon, to deceive the people.

compare the original koran with the words that man wrote. very different surahs.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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From what I understand, Muhammad was given a book, the Quran, from an angel named Gabriel, the same angel that told Mary she would conceive a child of the Holy Ghost.

Since the LORD said he would raise up a prophet and put his words in that Prophets mouth, then I fail to see how Muhammad is a prophet of the LORD if the words he gave didn't come directly from the LORD. Gabriel might be considered the Prophet if the LORD gave him the words.
I see.

.
 

posthuman

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You can't see the invisible. If you see it then it isn't invisible. Geez
Exodus 24:9-10​
Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel. And [there was] under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in [its] clarity.
Who did they see?
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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Exodus 24:9-10​
Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel. And [there was] under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in [its] clarity.
Who did they see?
It isn't who they saw, it what the saw.
Ex 24:7
the book of the covenant,

1 John 1:1-2
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
 

Webers.Home

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Gen 2:9 . . And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree
that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food-- the tree of life also in the
midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

That was clearly a case of product liability, i.e. God placed a tree known to
be unfit for human consumption where it could be easily found; and along
with that, its fruit was pleasing to the eye (Gen 3:6) thus making it an attractive
nuisance sort of like when adults leave a gun out where children can find it.
_
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
907
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.
Gen 2:9 . . And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree
that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food-- the tree of life also in the
midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


That was clearly a case of product liability, i.e. God placed a tree known to
be unfit for human consumption where it could be easily found; and along
with that, its fruit was pleasing to the eye (Gen 3:6) thus making it an attractive
nuisance sort of like when adults leave a gun out where children can find it.
_
Well, it kept them away from the bitter almonds....
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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It isn't who they saw, it what the saw.
the text of Exodus 24:9-10 literally says they saw the God of Israel. the only way around that as fact is to completely reject the scripture.

He is a "Who" not a "what"

how did they see the invisible God Whom no one has seen at any time?

Who is the visible manifestation of the invisible God?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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it is Jesus Christ in the garden, speaking to Adam and to his wife :)

all judgement has been given to Him.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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That was clearly a case of product liability, i.e. God placed a tree known to
be unfit for human consumption where it could be easily found; and along
with that, its fruit was pleasing to the eye (Gen 3:6) thus making it an attractive
nuisance sort of like when adults leave a gun out where children can find it.
ahem.

Genesis 3:6​
the woman saw that the tree was good for food
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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1 John 1:1-2
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
this passage is about Jesus Christ, not about a surah.

He is a "Who" not a "what"
 

Evmur

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The forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil; imparted the knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve as they lost their innocence.
IMO this means: Those who haven't gotten old enough to know right from wrong and those who are handicapped remain innocent, like the angels, weren't able to commit any sins and are therefore free from judgment.
Nobody is innocent, zero per cent of us. Sin is a state of being not an act.
God accounts some as righteous, Everybody's name [so far as I understand] is written in the book of life ... until it is blotted out.

Regarding children "of such is the Kingdom of Heaven."
 

Evmur

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We do not inherit Adam and Eve's sin, original sin, for that is their sin, and everybody will bear their own sin.

It would of not entered Adam and Eve's mind to sin unless an outside source tempted them, so God allowed Satan to tempt Eve and she sinned, and then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam by showing him she did not die, and no harm came to her.

When they sinned then they had a choice between good and evil, so all their offspring will have a choice between good and evil, so we are born not knowing God, so we will sin before we come to God and repent of our sins, so all are sinners that have fallen short of the grace of God.

But we are born innocent with no sin on our record, which is why the Bible says the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones, for they are protected spiritually when they do not have any sin on their record.

But we will sin before we come to God and repent of our sins.

But it is not our fault for our condition of being born not knowing God, and sinning, for we could do nothing about it, but there is no excuse because we still have to do right and not wrong when we know right from wrong.

Lucifer was created perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him, so the angels had a choice, and Lucifer and some of the angels rebelled, and Lucifer's name became Satan to identify with his new identity, and they became known as devils.

The angels that are with God now cannot sin, for they stayed with God so they do not have a choice, but only see the ways of God like the saints when they are with Jesus will not have a choice anymore and cannot sin, but they are not robots for the angels and saints already made the choice beforehand.

A fallen angel cannot be redeemed for there is no way to put off the sin, for when they sinned they tainted their entire being.

A human can be saved despite their sins, for all sins reside in the flesh, which Paul said there is no good thing that dwells in the flesh, and the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other, and when their sins are forgiven and they are saved they can put off the flesh, and the soul is preserved, which shall have a glorified body.

So while it is the flesh that can condemn us, it is also because of the flesh we can be saved for we can repent of our sins, and put off the flesh.
This is all the workings out of human logic. We are born in Adams image and likeness, that is as sinners. The sin that is in us which we inherited from Adam must be atoned for, we are then re-created in the likeness and image of Christ our Lord.
 

Evmur

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It's common knowledge that Adam's disobedience brought about the fall of man; but apparently nobody seems to know what caused the changes in his consciousness.

How did it come about that one minute Adam cared not at all about his appearance and the next minute suddenly ashamed of himself in the buff? Did God cause the change? Did the Serpent cause the change? Or was it to due to his body's natural reaction to the chemistry of the forbidden fruit?

I would greatly appreciate for someone who knows what the h__ll they're talking about to step up here and explain exactly what power, force, energy or chemistry it was that altered Adam's consciousness.
_
The nakedness does not refer to clothes but to the shekinah glory of God that covered the man and through the man the woman his wife. When Eve partook of the tree she was still covered by her husband, her head, but when Adam partook the glory of God departed from them. That is the nakedness they perceived.
 

Webers.Home

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Gen 3:6 . . the woman saw that the tree was good for food.

The Bible doesn't really say how the woman perceived the tree was good for
food; and the Hebrew word translated "saw" is horribly ambiguous so that
isn't much help.

However, by watching what birds and animals eat, people can often tell
what's safe for human consumption. That's not always true of course, but
it's a pretty good rule of thumb. So the woman could feel reasonably
assured the forbidden fruit wasn't toxic if there wasn't a growing pile of sick
and/or dead critters at the base of the tree.

It could be too that the Serpent nibbled some of the fruit himself to show
the woman it was harmless; but of course the chemistry of the fruit wasn't the
real danger; the Serpent was the real danger, and he was all set and ready to
infect the people with death should the woman succeed in persuading
Adam to follow her lead.
_
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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The Bible doesn't really say how the woman perceived the tree was good for
food;

9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Gen 2:9
KJV