Total Depravity
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He did drive them out. why would you say He didn't?
And also exactly as He said, they ran after their gods, and so He sent them into captivity.
He foretold He would drive then out, and He foretold they would be unfaithful, and all these things came to pass. He predicted the thoughts in their hearts a thousand years before they were born.
And also exactly as He said, they ran after their gods, and so He sent them into captivity.
He foretold He would drive then out, and He foretold they would be unfaithful, and all these things came to pass. He predicted the thoughts in their hearts a thousand years before they were born.
In order to even consider "open theism", or that god doesn't know the future, you would have to throw away the hundreds and hundreds of prophecies that God predicted through His Prophets that have already come true.
Since He can foretell the future, God certainly knows the future.
Since He can foretell the future, God certainly knows the future.
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Firstly, by looking carefully at the Greek text; then secondly, trying to read the verse without bringing presuppositions into it; and thirdly, reading the verse in its context.
The Greek transliterated for those unfamiliar with Greek characters -
akouonta de (But listening, present active participle) ta ethnE (the gentiles) echairon (were rejoicing, imperfect active indicative) kai (and) edoxazon (were glorifying, imperfect active indicative) ton logon (the word) tou kuriou (of the Lord) kai (and) episteusan (believed, aorist active indicative) hosoi (as many as) Esan tetagmenoi (were having appointed, imperfect indicative of to be + perfect passive participle of to believe) eis (into) zOEv aiOnion (aionous life).
The compound verb Esan tetagmenoi is the equivalent of our pluperfect - as many as had been appointed into aionous life
If one reads the verse without any presuppositions certain facts are stated and certain questions come to mind.
We see that -
1. While the gentiles were listening, they were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord that they were hearing.
2. Some listeners had been appointed into aionous life before they believed.
3. They had been appointed into (eis) aionous life, not towards (pros) aionous life.
One only become gets INTO aionous life by believing the gospel. So these has already believed the gospel before they believed what it was they believed here.
Some questions -
1. When had they been appointed into aionous life?
2. What was it that they believed here?
The wider context tells us that -
1. Paul and his companions had arrived in Antioch and preached in the synogogue on the sabbath.Acts 13:14-41
2, The people wanted to hear more, and some followed Paul and Barnabas and believed the gospel explained to them, We know they had believed the gopel because Paul and Barnabas encouraged them to "continue in the grace of God." (13:42-43)
3. On the next sabbath, word of mouth had drawn a huge crowd to hear Paul speak. (13:44)
4. The Jews were jealous that so many gentiles were open to Paul's teaching, but so few had ever been interested in the local Jews' teaching. (13:45)
5. Paul then tells the Jews before all the Gentiles that God had commanded Paul to take the gospel to all nations regardless of whether the Jews accepted it or not. (13:46-17)
6. Hearing Paul say, "... we are turning to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth, ' " the Gentiles were rejoicing, glorifying and as many as has already believed the gospel believed that God in His love for the Gentiles, had commanded Paul to focus on taking the gospel to them.
So, those who ghad been exhorted to continue in the grace of God had already begun to live in the grace of God and had already been appointed into aeonous life on the previous sabbath. And those who had already believed the gospel preached on this sabbath had already been appointed into aeonous life. And these believed that Paul was being sent with the same good news to the rest of their people. So, it was upon hearing this that they therefore were rejoicing and glorifying God.
Fro the broader context of the New Testament in toto, John 20 substantiates that the Bible does not always mean "believed the gospel" when it says "they believed."
1. Mary Magdalene reported to peter and the rest that "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have put him." John 20:2
2. We are told that after seeing the empty tomb, John saw the grave clothes and believed. (20:6-8)
3. But we are immediately told that it was not the gospel that they believed because we are told "for as yet they did not understand the scripture, that He must rise fro the dead", and that is one of the central beliefs of the gospel. (20:9)
4. So what or whom did they believe? They believed Mary and her report,. They believed: "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have put him." John 20:2
The Greek transliterated for those unfamiliar with Greek characters -
akouonta de (But listening, present active participle) ta ethnE (the gentiles) echairon (were rejoicing, imperfect active indicative) kai (and) edoxazon (were glorifying, imperfect active indicative) ton logon (the word) tou kuriou (of the Lord) kai (and) episteusan (believed, aorist active indicative) hosoi (as many as) Esan tetagmenoi (were having appointed, imperfect indicative of to be + perfect passive participle of to believe) eis (into) zOEv aiOnion (aionous life).
The compound verb Esan tetagmenoi is the equivalent of our pluperfect - as many as had been appointed into aionous life
If one reads the verse without any presuppositions certain facts are stated and certain questions come to mind.
We see that -
1. While the gentiles were listening, they were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord that they were hearing.
2. Some listeners had been appointed into aionous life before they believed.
3. They had been appointed into (eis) aionous life, not towards (pros) aionous life.
One only become gets INTO aionous life by believing the gospel. So these has already believed the gospel before they believed what it was they believed here.
Some questions -
1. When had they been appointed into aionous life?
2. What was it that they believed here?
The wider context tells us that -
1. Paul and his companions had arrived in Antioch and preached in the synogogue on the sabbath.Acts 13:14-41
2, The people wanted to hear more, and some followed Paul and Barnabas and believed the gospel explained to them, We know they had believed the gopel because Paul and Barnabas encouraged them to "continue in the grace of God." (13:42-43)
3. On the next sabbath, word of mouth had drawn a huge crowd to hear Paul speak. (13:44)
4. The Jews were jealous that so many gentiles were open to Paul's teaching, but so few had ever been interested in the local Jews' teaching. (13:45)
5. Paul then tells the Jews before all the Gentiles that God had commanded Paul to take the gospel to all nations regardless of whether the Jews accepted it or not. (13:46-17)
6. Hearing Paul say, "... we are turning to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth, ' " the Gentiles were rejoicing, glorifying and as many as has already believed the gospel believed that God in His love for the Gentiles, had commanded Paul to focus on taking the gospel to them.
So, those who ghad been exhorted to continue in the grace of God had already begun to live in the grace of God and had already been appointed into aeonous life on the previous sabbath. And those who had already believed the gospel preached on this sabbath had already been appointed into aeonous life. And these believed that Paul was being sent with the same good news to the rest of their people. So, it was upon hearing this that they therefore were rejoicing and glorifying God.
Fro the broader context of the New Testament in toto, John 20 substantiates that the Bible does not always mean "believed the gospel" when it says "they believed."
1. Mary Magdalene reported to peter and the rest that "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have put him." John 20:2
2. We are told that after seeing the empty tomb, John saw the grave clothes and believed. (20:6-8)
3. But we are immediately told that it was not the gospel that they believed because we are told "for as yet they did not understand the scripture, that He must rise fro the dead", and that is one of the central beliefs of the gospel. (20:9)
4. So what or whom did they believe? They believed Mary and her report,. They believed: "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have put him." John 20:2
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The Bible describes God as a person in relationship with other persons. The Bible reports God changing His mind and changing his projections according to how His creatures respond to His call to participate with Him in His plans. This is not something that a God who foreknows all things and has decreed all things from the beginning would do.
Ex. 33:1 And the Lord said unto Moses, Depart, and go up hence, thou and the people which thou hast brought up out of the land of Egypt, unto the land which I sware unto Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, Unto thy seed will I give it:
2 And I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:
3 Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way.
Numbers 33:51 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye are passed over Jordan into the land of Canaan;
52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:
53 And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell therein: for I have given you the land to possess it.
54 And ye shall divide the land by lot for an inheritance among your families: and to the more ye shall give the more inheritance, and to the fewer ye shall give the less inheritance: every man's inheritance shall be in the place where his lot falleth; according to the tribes of your fathers ye shall inherit.
55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.
56 Moreover it shall come to pass, that I shall do unto you, as I thought to do unto them.
Jos. 13:1 Now Joshua was old and stricken in years; and the Lord said unto him, Thou art old and stricken in years, and there remaineth yet very much land to be possessed.
2 This is the land that yet remaineth: all the borders of the Philistines, and all Geshuri,
3 From Sihor, which is before Egypt, even unto the borders of Ekron northward, which is counted to the Canaanite: five lords of the Philistines; the Gazathites, and the Ashdothites, the Eshkalonites, the Gittites, and the Ekronites; also the Avites:
4 From the south, all the land of the Canaanites, and Mearah that is beside the Sidonians unto Aphek, to the borders of the Amorites:
5 And the land of the Giblites, and all Lebanon, toward the sunrising, from Baalgad under mount Hermon unto the entering into Hamath.
6 All the inhabitants of the hill country from Lebanon unto Misrephothmaim, and all the Sidonians, them will I drive out from before the children of Israel: only divide thou it by lot unto the Israelites for an inheritance, as I have commanded thee.
7 Now therefore divide this land for an inheritance unto the nine tribes, and the half tribe of Manasseh,
8 With whom the Reubenites and the Gadites have received their inheritance, which Moses gave them, beyond Jordan eastward, even as Moses the servant of the Lord gave them;
9 From Aroer, that is upon the bank of the river Arnon, and the city that is in the midst of the river, and all the plain of Medeba unto Dibon;
10 And all the cities of Sihon king of the Amorites, which reigned in Heshbon, unto the border of the children of Ammon;
11 And Gilead, and the border of the Geshurites and Maachathites, and all mount Hermon, and all Bashan unto Salcah;
12 All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out.
13 Nevertheless the children of Israel expelled not the Geshurites, nor the Maachathites: but the Geshurites and the Maachathites dwell among the Israelites until this day.
Joshua 23:1 And it came to pass a long time after that the Lord had given rest unto Israel from all their enemies round about, that Joshua waxed old and stricken in age.
2 And Joshua called for all Israel, and for their elders, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers, and said unto them, I am old and stricken in age:
3 And ye have seen all that the Lord your God hath done unto all these nations because of you; for the Lord your God is he that hath fought for you.
4 Behold, I have divided unto you by lot these nations that remain, to be an inheritance for your tribes, from Jordan, with all the nations that I have cut off, even unto the great sea westward.
5 And the Lord your God, he shall expel them from before you, and drive them from out of your sight; and ye shall possess their land, as the Lord your God hath promised unto you.
6 Be ye therefore very courageous to keep and to do all that is written in the book of the law of Moses, that ye turn not aside therefrom to the right hand or to the left;
7 That ye come not among these nations, these that remain among you; neither make mention of the name of their gods, nor cause to swear by them, neither serve them, nor bow yourselves unto them:
8 But cleave unto the Lord your God, as ye have done unto this day.
9 For the Lord hath driven out from before you great nations and strong: but as for you, no man hath been able to stand before you unto this day.
10 One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the Lord your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you.
11 Take good heed therefore unto yourselves, that ye love the Lord your God.
12 Else if ye do in any wise go back, and cleave unto the remnant of these nations, even these that remain among you, and shall make marriages with them, and go in unto them, and they to you:
13 Know for a certainty that the Lord your God will no more drive out any of these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you.
14 And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the Lord your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, and not one thing hath failed thereof.
15 Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the Lord your God promised you; so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you.
16 When ye have transgressed the covenant of the Lord your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you.
Judges 2:1 And an angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.
2 And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this?
3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.
4 And it came to pass, when the angel of the Lord spake these words unto all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voice, and wept.
Ex. 33:1 And the Lord said unto Moses, Depart, and go up hence, thou and the people which thou hast brought up out of the land of Egypt, unto the land which I sware unto Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, Unto thy seed will I give it:
2 And I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:
3 Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way.
Numbers 33:51 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye are passed over Jordan into the land of Canaan;
52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:
53 And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell therein: for I have given you the land to possess it.
54 And ye shall divide the land by lot for an inheritance among your families: and to the more ye shall give the more inheritance, and to the fewer ye shall give the less inheritance: every man's inheritance shall be in the place where his lot falleth; according to the tribes of your fathers ye shall inherit.
55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.
56 Moreover it shall come to pass, that I shall do unto you, as I thought to do unto them.
Jos. 13:1 Now Joshua was old and stricken in years; and the Lord said unto him, Thou art old and stricken in years, and there remaineth yet very much land to be possessed.
2 This is the land that yet remaineth: all the borders of the Philistines, and all Geshuri,
3 From Sihor, which is before Egypt, even unto the borders of Ekron northward, which is counted to the Canaanite: five lords of the Philistines; the Gazathites, and the Ashdothites, the Eshkalonites, the Gittites, and the Ekronites; also the Avites:
4 From the south, all the land of the Canaanites, and Mearah that is beside the Sidonians unto Aphek, to the borders of the Amorites:
5 And the land of the Giblites, and all Lebanon, toward the sunrising, from Baalgad under mount Hermon unto the entering into Hamath.
6 All the inhabitants of the hill country from Lebanon unto Misrephothmaim, and all the Sidonians, them will I drive out from before the children of Israel: only divide thou it by lot unto the Israelites for an inheritance, as I have commanded thee.
7 Now therefore divide this land for an inheritance unto the nine tribes, and the half tribe of Manasseh,
8 With whom the Reubenites and the Gadites have received their inheritance, which Moses gave them, beyond Jordan eastward, even as Moses the servant of the Lord gave them;
9 From Aroer, that is upon the bank of the river Arnon, and the city that is in the midst of the river, and all the plain of Medeba unto Dibon;
10 And all the cities of Sihon king of the Amorites, which reigned in Heshbon, unto the border of the children of Ammon;
11 And Gilead, and the border of the Geshurites and Maachathites, and all mount Hermon, and all Bashan unto Salcah;
12 All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out.
13 Nevertheless the children of Israel expelled not the Geshurites, nor the Maachathites: but the Geshurites and the Maachathites dwell among the Israelites until this day.
Joshua 23:1 And it came to pass a long time after that the Lord had given rest unto Israel from all their enemies round about, that Joshua waxed old and stricken in age.
2 And Joshua called for all Israel, and for their elders, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers, and said unto them, I am old and stricken in age:
3 And ye have seen all that the Lord your God hath done unto all these nations because of you; for the Lord your God is he that hath fought for you.
4 Behold, I have divided unto you by lot these nations that remain, to be an inheritance for your tribes, from Jordan, with all the nations that I have cut off, even unto the great sea westward.
5 And the Lord your God, he shall expel them from before you, and drive them from out of your sight; and ye shall possess their land, as the Lord your God hath promised unto you.
6 Be ye therefore very courageous to keep and to do all that is written in the book of the law of Moses, that ye turn not aside therefrom to the right hand or to the left;
7 That ye come not among these nations, these that remain among you; neither make mention of the name of their gods, nor cause to swear by them, neither serve them, nor bow yourselves unto them:
8 But cleave unto the Lord your God, as ye have done unto this day.
9 For the Lord hath driven out from before you great nations and strong: but as for you, no man hath been able to stand before you unto this day.
10 One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the Lord your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you.
11 Take good heed therefore unto yourselves, that ye love the Lord your God.
12 Else if ye do in any wise go back, and cleave unto the remnant of these nations, even these that remain among you, and shall make marriages with them, and go in unto them, and they to you:
13 Know for a certainty that the Lord your God will no more drive out any of these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you.
14 And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the Lord your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, and not one thing hath failed thereof.
15 Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the Lord your God promised you; so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you.
16 When ye have transgressed the covenant of the Lord your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you.
Judges 2:1 And an angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.
2 And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this?
3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.
4 And it came to pass, when the angel of the Lord spake these words unto all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voice, and wept.
If God is omnipotent and foreknows all things exhaustively and decrees whatsoever comes to pass from the beginning including every persons desires, He would be able to cause the garden to produce only good grapes, and if the garden dis not produce good grapes, there MUST have been MORE that He could have done. The answer to God's question would have been, "You could have unilaterally decreed that only good grapes may happen.
However, if God is omnipotent but has granted creatures real freedom to have and prioritise and attempt to fulfil their desires, and only foreknows as certain those things that are certain, and knows as contingent possibilities those things that are still merely possibilities, He would not be able to guarantee the quality of the "grapes" without usurping their freedom to desire and choose otherwise. In that case, the question, "What more could I have done for my vineyard?" is a way of laying the responsibility for the poor "grapes" on the poor response of the vine and the grapes themselves to God's husbandry, and not on God.
However, if God is omnipotent but has granted creatures real freedom to have and prioritise and attempt to fulfil their desires, and only foreknows as certain those things that are certain, and knows as contingent possibilities those things that are still merely possibilities, He would not be able to guarantee the quality of the "grapes" without usurping their freedom to desire and choose otherwise. In that case, the question, "What more could I have done for my vineyard?" is a way of laying the responsibility for the poor "grapes" on the poor response of the vine and the grapes themselves to God's husbandry, and not on God.
You do not really understand omnipotence and omniscience either. So you have jumped to a false conclusion.
1. Is God omnipotent? Absolutely
2. Is God omniscient? Absolutely
3. Does God have divine foreknowledge? Absolutely
4. Does God decree whatsoever comes to pass? ABOLUTELY NOT.
5. Does God all sin and evil? Absolutely
6. Are wicked and evil men responsible for the sin and evil? Absolutely
7. Are Satan, demons, and evil angels behind many things that ae evil? Absolutely
8. Does God allow Satan and evil spirits to exist for a certain period? Absolutely
Divine foreknowledge is God knowing ALL things in advance -- both good and evil. But is is not the same as God decreeing everything.
1. Is God omnipotent? Absolutely
2. Is God omniscient? Absolutely
3. Does God have divine foreknowledge? Absolutely
4. Does God decree whatsoever comes to pass? ABOLUTELY NOT.
5. Does God all sin and evil? Absolutely
6. Are wicked and evil men responsible for the sin and evil? Absolutely
7. Are Satan, demons, and evil angels behind many things that ae evil? Absolutely
8. Does God allow Satan and evil spirits to exist for a certain period? Absolutely
Divine foreknowledge is God knowing ALL things in advance -- both good and evil. But is is not the same as God decreeing everything.
You are saying I do not understand various terms. What are your working definitions of omnipotence, omniscience, and God's decree?
You say that "Divine foreknowledge is God knowing ALL things in advance -- both good and evil."
God knows all things that ARE TRUE. God knows all things AS THEY TRULY ARE. So, what is the truth about the future? Does the future already truly exist as a done deal? If it does not already exist as a done deal, then an omniscient God knows it as contingent and unsettled. If it is contingent and unsettled, it cannot also be non-contingent and settled.
So, what is your proof that the future is non-contingent and already settled? In your opinion, did God decree the history of all things and when did He do so?
You say that "Divine foreknowledge is God knowing ALL things in advance -- both good and evil."
God knows all things that ARE TRUE. God knows all things AS THEY TRULY ARE. So, what is the truth about the future? Does the future already truly exist as a done deal? If it does not already exist as a done deal, then an omniscient God knows it as contingent and unsettled. If it is contingent and unsettled, it cannot also be non-contingent and settled.
So, what is your proof that the future is non-contingent and already settled? In your opinion, did God decree the history of all things and when did He do so?
Omni is Latin for "all"
Omni-potent
= all powerful
omni-scient
= all knowing
omni-present
= all present or present everywhere at all times.
GOD IS ALL THESE THINGS.
But God is Love and love does not force or take away people's choice.
I do not understand God and I think you need to be careful that you don't try too hard to comprehend the way God works.
What God has revealed is enough.
Accept the basic principles.
GOD IS LOVE.
What is love.
1Co 13:1-13
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity(LOVE), I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Omni-potent
= all powerful
omni-scient
= all knowing
omni-present
= all present or present everywhere at all times.
GOD IS ALL THESE THINGS.
But God is Love and love does not force or take away people's choice.
I do not understand God and I think you need to be careful that you don't try too hard to comprehend the way God works.
What God has revealed is enough.
Accept the basic principles.
GOD IS LOVE.
What is love.
1Co 13:1-13
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity(LOVE), I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
1Co 13:12-13
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
We will not understand everything about God. But we can be sure that He wants the best for us and loves us all.
If God pre destined some to live for ever and some to die for ever, then this is a God that does not love some.
The father in the parable let the evil son go and hoped that he would come home.
Luk 15:11-12
11 And he said, A certain man had two sons: 12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
The father didn't force... but let him go.
Love doesn't force. And the father said to the other son.
32. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
We can all choose which path we take.
God has given us the best choices to follow. There is only 2 places we will end up. Dead or alive.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
We will not understand everything about God. But we can be sure that He wants the best for us and loves us all.
If God pre destined some to live for ever and some to die for ever, then this is a God that does not love some.
The father in the parable let the evil son go and hoped that he would come home.
Luk 15:11-12
11 And he said, A certain man had two sons: 12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
The father didn't force... but let him go.
Love doesn't force. And the father said to the other son.
32. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
We can all choose which path we take.
God has given us the best choices to follow. There is only 2 places we will end up. Dead or alive.
Romans 4: 15 Because the law worketh wrath; for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Romans 5: 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
Romans 7: 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin but by the law; for I had not known coveting except the law had said, Thou shall not covet.
Romans 2: 14-15 For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves; Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusing one another
Adam and Eve were created without sin. When they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they acquired this knowledge ( which is called our conscience). As the first man and woman, they passed this knowledge unto their descendants so that we are all born under the law of conscience. Even Jesus was born under this law of conscience (except that he never sinned). The problem with humanity is that our motivation for living is self. If "total depravity" means totally evil, then calvanists are wrong. If "total depravity" means that we are all born under the law of conscience with "self" as being our motivation for living, then we cannot please God, are all condemned, and the calvanists are correct.
Romans 5: 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
Romans 7: 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin but by the law; for I had not known coveting except the law had said, Thou shall not covet.
Romans 2: 14-15 For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves; Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusing one another
Adam and Eve were created without sin. When they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they acquired this knowledge ( which is called our conscience). As the first man and woman, they passed this knowledge unto their descendants so that we are all born under the law of conscience. Even Jesus was born under this law of conscience (except that he never sinned). The problem with humanity is that our motivation for living is self. If "total depravity" means totally evil, then calvanists are wrong. If "total depravity" means that we are all born under the law of conscience with "self" as being our motivation for living, then we cannot please God, are all condemned, and the calvanists are correct.
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Mostly it seems that people have knee-jerk reactions to the word depravity without finding out
what is really meant by it. But also, quite a few are enamored with their idea that the natural man,
who is a slave to sin (taken captive to the devil's will) and hostile in his mind toward God, is free
in his will to choose to love and believe in God without God doing some work in us first. Some
go so far as to say that God not enabling everyone exactly the same makes God unjust and they
agree with those who say that God is a tyrant who kidnaps people against their will. I have
described what I believe is meant to be conveyed by total depravity here (<= link to post) .
Depravity vs. Grace
what is really meant by it. But also, quite a few are enamored with their idea that the natural man,
who is a slave to sin (taken captive to the devil's will) and hostile in his mind toward God, is free
in his will to choose to love and believe in God without God doing some work in us first. Some
go so far as to say that God not enabling everyone exactly the same makes God unjust and they
agree with those who say that God is a tyrant who kidnaps people against their will. I have
described what I believe is meant to be conveyed by total depravity here (<= link to post) .
Depravity vs. Grace
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