What Changed?

What Changed?
Assuming that you are a child of God, What was the event that resulted in this change?
All people are conceived in sin and are born children of wrath, unfit for any saving good, inclined to evil, dead in their sins, and slaves to sin; without the grace of the regenerating Holy Spirit they are neither willing nor able to return to God, to reform their distorted nature, or even to dispose themselves to such reform.

Something had to change
Did you overcome this condition in your own strength, or were you drawn to Christ by the power of the Spirit? If you were drawn, were you able to resist being drawn?

You start by assuming your reader is "a child of God."

Then you add a bunch more assumptions"
1. ALL people are conceived in sin.
2. ALL children are born children of wrath.
3. ALL are born unfit for any saving good.
4. ALL are born inclined to evil.
5. ALL are born dead in their sins.
6. ALL are born slaves to sin.

These assumptions are not stated in the Bible. What would be the point of anyone being willing to assume them in order to respond to this thread?

I was trying to understand the purpose of life. Why am I here? How should I live?
Jesus told me that He could show me the answer to those questions.
He persuaded me that He is the living Saviour and King who can lead me, and can teach me through the Bible/scriptures. So I started trusting Him to do that. God reckoned my faith as righteousness and gave me a new spirit in which the Holy Spirit came to abide with me and They will guide me into ALL truth... eventually.

Before i knew what Theosis was, which is a co-operative, non-static relationship with God, the change for me began when i was 13 year old kid and i was looking at the stars and asking origins questions. Coupled with the fact that i was born in a communist, state-sanctioned atheism, no one could give me any answers which involved any type of religion.
After the fall of Berlin wall i was introduced to the Orthodox Church via a monk who taught me the Bible for 2 years and then i got baptized.
It is during this phase that i got a lot of origins answers i was looking for.
Then later in life i got busy and didn't appreciate God enough with my time. So then God reminded me via a small health suffering which He helped me overcome too.
During my whole life i have also experienced a few miracles, with two of them being major ones.

So, what changed? There isn't a single event i can point my finger to because change and my relationship with God is not a static relationship. Change is a constant and slow process which continues for a lifetime.
Maybe an event can be considered a starting point from our point of view, but when you think about it is it God who lays the framework for our faith and it's up to us to react to it with limited free-will.

Thanks for the reply. I will not judge anyone's answer to the question of what changed. Just would enjoy hearing their thoughts.

Hi @BillyBob

Well, I'm going to assume that you're asking for our testimonies as to how we came to believe the truth of God's word AND seek after what God promises for those who will follow after His Son.

For me, I had just joined with a fellowship and the teacher did a message, I believe it was coming up to the Christmas season, on the prophecies of the Scriptures concerning the coming Lord, Messiah. I began studying some of those prophecies, and others, and found out that what God's word says to Israel is true. If you want to prove to yourself that there is a God, then study His prophecies. God told Israel that you will know the one true God in that what He says will come to pass. That's what did it for me. And I must confess that the most powerful prophecy that really does prove, I believe, that there is one who knows the end from the beginning, is the prophecy given to Daniel concerning the very time that Jesus would be with us. That one really sealed the deal.

Shortly after I found myself on my knees in my bedroom praying for God's promise and thanking Jesus for all that he had done that I might have God's salvation. In my prayer I also asked for an unquenchable thirst to know Him and to know His word. For about 6 months I literally couldn't put the Scriptures down and truly had an unquenchable thirst to know Him.

That's how it happened in my life.

The event that drew me into Truth was a motorcycle wreak that took all function from my right arm. This led me into a depression that had me thinking about killing myself every 5 minutes of every day for 2 years. At the time of the accident I was a false convert and thought I was a Christian.

I had responded to the alter call, I also repeated the prayer with all my heart, and was even dunked under the water for good measure. I was pronounced saved and thought I was. Then about 5 years into to it, BAM! The accident. After this I was thankful to be alive at first, but that quickly turned into a waking nightmare that no one or nothing could fix. The nerve damage I suffered couldn't be repaired by science, no doctor could help me, I went to therapy and that didn't help, even thinking I was already saved I felt like even God couldn't, or more likely wouldn't help me either. I had nowhere to run and nowhere to hide, so even though I wasn't angry towards God, I didn't feel like He was real at all anymore, so I was left alone and broken with no hope.

This was when He brought me to my knees and granted me repentance. I was all alone at my house on 9-29-13 and it all became too heavy. After two years of wanting nothing but death I hit my knees in defeat. I saw my greatness right in front of my face and after 33 years of living I was crushed by the pathetic sight. I had no clue what was happening and didn't cry out "I'm ready now God!!", or "Jesus save me". Nope, I honestly thought I was done with the "fairy tale nonsense". When I hit my knees all I cried, and cried like a blubbering baby, was "I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore. World you win, I lose, and I QUIT!!!" That was it. I then got up, dried myself off, and went to bed.

It wasn't until the next day that it hit me so hard I couldn't believe it, but while I was about to go to lunch when it hit me, "I haven't thought about killing myself all day!!!!!!!", and it was then and there I KNEW 2 things. #1, whatever this was, it was from God. #2, Jesus Christ was His Son. From there He led me strait to His word and by the time I was in John 3, I went out to the receptionist who was a believer and told her, "I think I was born again". I was made all new in a radical way, from walking around hating life for 2 solid years with my head down to "LIFE" again over night. I had completely new priorities up top and a lot of wicked habits disappear overnight, like looking at porn and playing video games like a religion, just overnight and by His power just fell away. It was a "Road to Damascus" type conversion that blew my mind, but that was what He used to draw me in. I thank Him nearly every day for that accident now, and wouldn't trade back for ten arms.

1. ALL people are conceived in sin.- They are
2. ALL children are born children of wrath. We are
3. ALL are born unfit for any saving good. They are
4. ALL are born inclined to evil. We are
5. ALL are born dead in their sins. They are
6. ALL are born slaves to sin. We are

Oh my goodness the fact you don't understand this concept is worrying. So there are some born sinless in your mind?
How many are born Righteous according to His word?
Psalms 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Did you never read this?
Or this
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned...
or this
Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.
or
Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.
Romans 8:8
Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

There are SO MANY more I don't feel like listing them, but the fact you act as if this is some kind of fringe belief is kind of crazy to me. This is the WHOLE POINT of Jesus coming in the first place, to save those that cannot save themselves, and you just flippantly act as if the idea of original sin is wrong? I'm not even going to debate this with you, but will say you're DEAD WRONG.
Please list me the verses that say that we are born sinless. Id love to see those.

Thanks for sharing your story. I honestly don't think that I have ever heard such a heart warming remembrance, ever! I have heard people tell about believing they were saved, only to discover that they never were.

Praise God that He did not stop working in your life!

Thanks for your story. The story is different for every believer! That I believe, is what makes the conversion story a blessing to hear!
I also see that you are a new member. Welcome to CC and I hope to see more posts from you in the near future.

“Assuming that you are a child of God, What was the event that resulted in this change?
All people are conceived in sin and are born children of wrath, unfit for any saving good, inclined to evil, dead in their sins, and slaves to sin;”

your answer is sort of on the rest of you’re quote there

This is what’s supposed to have changed

“without the grace of the regenerating Holy Spirit they are neither willing nor able to return to God, to reform their distorted nature, or even to dispose themselves to such reform.”


“grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, ( through the gospel ) according as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: ( the things promises on the gospel ) that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, ( receive his spirit ) having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.



And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.( John Ch 15)

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: for so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:2-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the change is meant to happen as we accept what these men are teaching believers in Jesus to believe. It’s meant to change our minds hearing the gospel and things the apostles taught believers of Jesus. We have to change let him change us this requires us to chi angels our mindset from “ I don’t need to do anything God said “ to “ I need to repent and hear what he said and follow after him “

We have to let what we hear from scripture change our thoughts and convictions about all of it our minds and hearts change our perception of God . Some of our desires will begin to make us feel guilty because we stand in the light and we see that it is sin and then we are changing . It’s not easy or instant but a journey of change and growth

aim my twenties I thought I had everything figured out , then in my thirties I realized I didn’t know much ten years ago at fourty I realized what a dummy I was at thirty , at fifty I finally realized this thing was gonna just keep going because I didn’t no much at fourty like I thought ….

But as my thinking and perceptions changed my actions just kind of followed doesn’t mean now I’m perfect and beyond any sin but truly who I was o side and how I acted at twenty is a totally different man from who I am at 70 .
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we believe things in our heart but we have to first perceive them through our mind

“For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

As we hear Jesus word it changes our mind and heart against sin and for righteousness and truth

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭

We are what needs to change and the gospel is able to change us from the heart outward only however if we hear the gospel that’s really in scripture and believe

Hey @BillyBob

In reading over some of the responses. I see that it's a tough crowd tonight. But I agree with you concerning our birth condition and what we are when born, in the eyes of God.

God bless you,
Ted

You are correct! The process does not end when we become a Christian. We are still sinners, but we are forgiven in Christ. We must continue to grow in God's grace, asking him for strength to overcome remaining sin and grow in faith!

Thanks. I think some folks got a little defensive, thinking that I was going to stick my finger in their eye. That was never my intent. Everyone has a story, and who am I to argue?

well no that’s not really what I’m saying I’m saying that we should all listen to Jesus and his apostles teachings such as Paul’s teaching to believers

“That, however, is not the way of life you learned when you heard of Christ and were taught by him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus.

You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, ( the sinner ) which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;

to be made new in the attitude of your minds; (this is why we need to hear and believe the gospel )


and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. ( this is the result of repenting and belief having changed our minds and hearts therefore now we need to take heed of this instruction )

Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body

. “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold.

Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.

Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed until the day of redemption.

Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:20-32‬ ‭NIV‬‬

That’s how grace teaches us we need to listen and put into practice the doctrine that’s being taught the beliefs . The ways of life Jesus taught.

But in a family there are newborns and toddlers , children and teenagers , there are young adults there are grown ups and old people

a babe only understands what a babe understands but he’s still a beloved child belonging to the fether but he has no responsabilities he’s a babe he only knows and craves Milk. But it’s right for the babe it’s what he needs and can digest.

“Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:2-3‬ ‭NIV‬‬

abut as we grow up into adults we can’t still wear diapers , drink only milk , and have no responsabilities because now we’re adults so we need to eat solid food now meat and potatoes to grow

“In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again.

You need milk, not solid food!

Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.

But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:12-14‬ ‭NIV‬‬

There was a time that if I heard an old man talking about what I talk about I would think he was a nut . Because used to only drink milk . It’s not an insult to me back then because I was a born child of God , but I was a babe and wasn’t aquatinted with the teachings of repentance and righteousness . I just knew that Jesus died for my sins he is the lord and he rose again from death and went into heaven to intervene and atone for my sins .

I used to think it was everything but a babe thinks tbier crib and rhier parents face is everything . When they bring to grow they learn and grow in understanding and ability and knowledge and practice and responsability .

we can’t judge one another because a family has infants children and adults and even old folks and everyone is at a different stage of maturity and understanding . It doesn’t mean any believer isn’t going to be saved or doesn’t belong to God or isn’t born of God

It’s that being born is just the beginning of we are mature adults we can’t be sitting and breastfeeding still having the responsibilities of the babies , there’s sn issue of we have a thirty year old drinking the bottle of milk still is what I mean

If we don’t ever stray too far from Jesus and the gospel the things our lord said , and always accept those things as true and learn from them it will change what we believe and that’s able to empower us to act in what we believe

Naw you aren’t poking eyeballs lol for sure

Your false indignation is unpersuasive.

You have been a member of this forum since 2014. In the case of every verse you cited, you have already seen the eisegesis of the original sin doctrine into them refuted. And yet you bring up the same tired and failed proof-texts for total depravity yet again pretending they undubitably teach original sin/Total Depravity and pretending you have never seen any refutation to the claims you make about them.

Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.

This verse does not say
Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged in the womb; they go astray at birth, speaking lies.

No child in the womb is speaking lies. No child at birth is speaking lies. It is absolute nonsense to read total depravity and original sin into this verse.

Ropm. 9:11 Esau and Jacob in the womb had done neither good or evil. They had not yet sinned. They had not spoken lies in the womb.

While some of these statements are on shaky ground that is probably based in traditions from questionable logic (ex. Extrapolating an individual case to all), some conceptually look to be in the Bible, whether or not they are point blank stated.
Example:

And unless something was edited, you seem to have misunderstood the writing device used by BillyBob in saying,
Such a statement means that what follows applies ONLY if the reader is indeed a follower of God, and suggests that such a state is likely but not certain since this is a Christian website. But as you see, that is a lot more complicated to explain this way, and a lot less artful.


Also, while I applaud your willingness to point-out unfounded assumptions, the tone you did it in seemed lacking in respect for a brother in Christ, especially in replying to a post that itself felt unifying in intent.

First off, I'm setting aside any possible contentions over some of your statements (which I addressed above).

What changed for me? Hmm....It's complicated.

I guess I became aware of my selfishness and sin-proneness and wanted help to be better, and forgiveness for my failures. It wasn't one event but a series of things - An addiction to a hateful fantasy. A speech at school that explained love. An apparently selfless act by a sibling that I was used to contending with that startled me out of complacency. Natural questioning of what one has been taught that arise around the age of 13.

There was one big thing in my childhood denomination announcing huge doctrinal changes and consequently splintering into multiple pieces, but the developmental context this experience happened in was just as significant.

No, I didn't overcome the mental addiction. In truth I didn't even really understand forgiveness. Rather I went from seeing a God that damned you if you did and damned you if you didn't, to one that actually had a right answer He was looking for, though it was still an impossible target, just not so obviously so. It wasn't till much later that all of these things got resolved, but my decision to follow Jesus back then had put me on the path to get there eventually on all of this. Of note, it first required learning of the gifts of the spirit before God had a sufficient means to get me there.

The Spirit calls us to repent. It is called becoming under "conviction." Yes, some, many do resist the calling. Those who answer the "knock at their heart's door" and repent and ask Jesus to be Lord and Savior of their lives receive forgiveness of their sin filled past and become born again into salvation. New man, new heart.

The greatest change is that new believers have the chains of sin broken and they are no longer slaves to sin. Does not mean they will never sin again, just means they are not the slaves of sin.