Does anyone know of....

Are you implying that you no longer sin? Be careful, if way say we do not sin we make ourself a liar!

Isaiah 1:4-5 Alas, O sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a brood of evildoers, children of depravity! They have forsaken the LORD; they have despised the Holy One of Israel and turned their backs on Him. Why do you want more beatings? Why do you keep rebelling? Your head has a massive wound, and your whole heart is afflicted.

Jesus’ words in John 6:65

"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.
6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness, ”made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ."
2 Cor 4:4


Seems to me this actually derails Total Depravity/No Ability/Unwilling.

If "man" is born completely unable to see, hear, understand or respond willingly to the word of God, dead in our own trespasses, slave to sin.....a spiritual corpse, therefore, is unable to see, hear, understand or otherwise repent of their own sins.

Is there not a fundamental contradiction here?

Wouldn’t Satan’s work to blind people and snatch away the word be completely unnecessary and redundant?
So, why does Paul mention that Satan works (and is presumably able!) to prevent folks from seeing the way, the truth and the light?
Is Calvinism doctrine of total depravity false.
Are Paul’s comments the “proof” which derails total depravity?
(Martin Mecurial)

2nd Thessalonians 2:8-12:

“Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.”


Obviously.... God is holding them accountable for the light that they had received, and rejected.

It is important to examine both sides, otherwise you will end up with confirmation bias and helpful to find where the system false apart and does not line up with proper hermeneutics.

James White would be my last choice, although he is high profile so I can save money by not having to buy any books!!

He is the typical embodiment of someone who knows he has lost the argument, not once but many times, but continues on promoting a false soteriology in an almost panicked fashion.

Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. Satan blinds; Jesus reveals. God...made His light to shine in our hearts...
There it is...Jesus undoing what Satan has done.

Here are the verses:

Matthew 23:37
New International Version
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

2 Corinthians 4:4
New International Version
4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

And Paul's verse proves that the Devil can negate the desires of the Lord? Come on.

And who controls the free choice of the Devil?

But according to some, this is absolutely unnecessary. The natural
man needs no help. He is free to choose as is, thanks just the same.

So un-Biblical, but that is what they believe none-the-less.


Luke 4:18-19

We need to look at this further to avoid any misunderstanding. God's creature man is not God, so what does being in His image and likeness mean? Setting aside the meaning of image for now, "likeness" means resemblance. How do human beings resemble God?

God created man as a tripartite being with a body, a soul, and a spirit. What is the soul? The soul is one's innermost being and has a mind, a "heart", and a will (the ability to make decisions and act on them). God thinks and feels, and so do we. God also has a will and so do we. But God also put a conscience in each person, to distinguish between right and wrong.

Because of Adam, the "sin nature" entered into human beings. It is called "the flesh" in the NT. Those who are not saved are generally controlled by the flesh. But all human beings can also act according to the dictates of their conscience, and in Romans 2:14,15 Paul makes it clear that even the Gentiles -- who not have the Law -- have another "law" within: For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another... Which means that unsaved people can and do perform righteous deeds.

Now when we come to the TULIP teaching on total depravity, it simply ignores two things (1)that humans have a conscience and can therefore choose to do right, and (2) that in spite of the flesh, sinners can get saved through the power of the preaching of the Gospel, accompanied by the power of the Holy Spirit to convict and convince, so that they CHOOSE to obey the Gospel. If this were not so, there would be no need for the Gospel. So this is evidence that all men have free will regardless of the indwelling sin nature.

Calvinists (like everyone else) had to choose to either obey or disobey the Gospel. But they will not admit it, because it would destroy their belief system. No one is elected for salvation, otherwise all would be elected for salvation. God wants all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. Instead He COMMANDS repentance and faith. And those who will not believe and obey the Gospel will be damned.

He was in no way implying such a thing.

I suspect you know this too.

Be careful about the consideration of God's sovereignty. @HeIsHere might have to give you a stern talking to. But of course God is able to do as He pleases. So it must suit God that humanity begins as children of wrath. @Magenta has told you why...so that God may show mercy...Romans 11:32.

It all goes back to understanding the estate of fallen man. This despite the teaching, particularly, of NT scripture.

yeah I saw that coming..

Here is a fellow Calvinist

“If the salvation of all men was his overriding priority, he could prevent Satan from blinding the eyes of the unconverted so that more would believe. He would work toward the softening, not hardening, of all men.” (Erwin Lutzer, The Doctrines That Divide, p.171,


To which we can confidently answer...

God wants people to seek Him by faith (Hebrews 11:6), and when they reject Him, He indeed threatens to harden them, as per Jeremiah 18:11.
God the Father’s desire for the salvation of the world was explicitly stated to be conditioned upon faith in His Son: “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.” (John 3:16)

I didn't know you identified as a Calvinist. I'm glad you have some fellow Calvinists.

I was just using your own quote. Paul clearly says it is God who has shined the light of the gospel into his heart, and that this is the reason for his understanding of the gospel.

Just as God said...Let there be light...in creation and it appeared, so when God says let their be light in an individual's heart, it appears there also. Why did Paul make the reference to creation if this was not what he had in mind?

You mean came of destroy "some" of the works of the devil.

In other words,
Satan blinds and "sometimes" Jesus reveals God...to only the chosen few, of course.

I meant what I wrote. Perhaps you should spend more time reading scripture and refute what I'm saying instead of trying to change it. Perhaps God might shed some light in your heart on the topic.

And those "who diligently seek" just so happen to be those predestined chosen few?

Am I right?

Nothing what I wrote is different then what you have been proclaiming.

There is a number in heaven that no man can number...Revelation 7:9. Why do you keep saying few?