Forgiveness in The kingdom

Yes as we mature in Christ we can hear better

“For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. ( also belongs to God but just hasn’t grown up to hear and understand yet certain things not being prepared to receive them and bear them yet )

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s a process
“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Do all things without murmurings and disputings:”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

v “ don’t do anything he’ll do it for you

Is forgiveness on going today from God through Son ? Or is that completed on the cross of Son for us the people? In order to get given new life in the risen Christ. Sin has to get taken out of the way, before any new life, as born again can be installed?
yes or no.?
if yes, then it is done, new life can be given by God Father of risen Son. Gift, has no work in it. Work is after receiving the gift from God alone.the work that gets done is God’s done work of Son, that begins with sin taken away for you to be born again as new in Gods’ Spirit and Truth, a life of love to all, first born self is dead.
read 1 Cor 15 please
without being 100% forgiven all the time from God to perfect us in God self. We will not obey of our unredeemed first birth.
‘therefore reckon self dead to first birth< that will not or cannot please God ever. Be alive in the new birth of Gods Spirit and Truth
trusting God to teach us all Gods love that is beyond flesh nature understanding

trying to feed you meat. 1 Cor 3

‘oh I have sinned, oh boy, have I. God is the reconciler and the life giver. I cannot earn this gift, neither can anyone else. Water and oil do not mix
God is oil, we are first born as water God does not mix with Flesh. so be dead to flesh willingly, trust God willingly to lead you new in Gods Spirit and Truth

What is the greatest of the commandments?
Love, no laws against God’s love. God is love, God is perfect. In God reception of this love, casts out all fear and sin
Romans 8

Okay, thank you. God reveals, we receive, see and be. Yes it takes time to learn and be as God sees us from first day anyone believes God.
as the old man leaves, the new man sees as a blind man did not see Gods sprit and truth. Then does and all things are new
amazing grace to be thankful in and rest in thanksgiving and praise

Yes, it is a process. It's also a relationship. As we invest and grow in our relationship with Christ, we become more like Him and more unified with Him as well:

Romans 6:4-6

New King James Version

4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,

6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be [a]done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

That "newness of life" comes through being "united together" with Christ. "Our old man was crucified with Him," and the new man in partnership with the Holy Spirit walks with Christ wherever He leads us. It's a relationship that's built on love and trust. The more we love and trust Jesus, the more we will live as He did - or better yet, we allow Him to live His life in and through us to spread the gospel.

“The more we love and trust Jesus, the more we will live as He did”

Love him indeed

“He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

( Judas asks Jesus why won’t you do this to the world but only to your disciples ?)

….. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:21, 23-24‬ ‭

“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This sounds oppressive to our old man who is corrupt at the core he responds “ that’s just works of the law , I’m saved by grace I don’t need to keep Gods commandments I love God my way it has nothing to do with his commandments and me keeping them “

But if it seems oppressive to agree with what God our savior said is right and wrong and walk in those ways willingly then we need a change of our mind and hearts attitude and understanding u til it’s not going to make us bitter to follow his ways and angry and feel oppressed by keeping the things he said to do and not do

sometimes kids don’t want to do any chores but then later they become good workers ha being a good solid work ethic understsnding that it is driven by gratitude and commitment to the one who was spit on , mocked and insulted , beaten with fists and slapped hit with a rod and also flogged by the Romans.

stripped and led along with criminals the one who did no wrong then finally nailed to a cruel device of torturous death called the crucifix. Raised up high , still rejected and mocked and insulted by those he had come to save.

i believe that gratitude and commitment should be one of the foundational principles of faith. Jesus and his apostles all taught diligent effort and persistence and commitment of one’s whole heart and mind and body and souls to God .

awe can’t continue to be opposed to keeping Gods word and also change at the same time because this is the vehicle by which we are effectively changed through the process of faith

It sounds wrong to the old man like slavery against thier Will. To be commanded by God and expected to keep them. This is the part in us that Gods word can change this biew of what he’s saying

“Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭5:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬


This however is the truth of the Gospel and Gods everlasting word

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“ Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we trust God , then his word will keep us safe it’s always been that way it’s man’s design .

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion ……..over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food;

the tree of life also in the midst of the garden,

and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And the LORD God commanded ( warned for his good ) the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If man who is free to partake of anything there in his environment , trusts what his creator and blesser who made him ruler of earth , told him if he trusts and takes God at his word he’s going to be safe and free and blessed and fruitful and multiply upon the earth and have fellowship with God . The covenant made with man in genesis Ch 1-2

but if he doesn’t trust Gods word about this life and death matter , he’s going to certainly die, God wasn’t lying and wasn’t t wrong about the matter .it was t oppressive to Adam but informative to keep his safe “ this is deadly and dangerous don’t do it you’ll die “

It very much indeed requires man to hear what God said about the fruit and also to accept it and trust what the lord has told him about the fruit so he doesn’t eat it knowingly and die.

This truly is man’s design and tbier light and life to learn from our creator and believe what he’s saying over the voices in the world telling us it’s not true it’s life

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-2, 4-5, 9-10, 12-14, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure

noting the above. It is God that works it in us, not us doing or trying to do. (Phil 1:6)
as a works project is ineffective, effective , being under Law to have to do it. No one can, but God our messiah, the Lord Jesus.
yet it seems we the people need to go through trying, many do to see they can’t either, I did try, got put under Law, finally saw Romans 7:10 and it still sometimes gets a hold back again on me. Seeing what Paul said, under Law, under a curse.


Galatians 6:1-9

New International Version



Doing Good to All
6 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. 2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3 If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. 4 Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, 5 for each one should carry their own load.6 Nevertheless, the one who receives instruction in the word should share all good things with their instructor.
7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

‘that means, to me, to not quit belief to God Father of risen Son. I have seen things leave, once I was in agreement with God over it, as not good for me.
seeing all things as permissible, not all things as beneficial. Therefore I leave those things behind, without taking any credit I finally doing it Willingly
loving all in the same mercy and truth, Son Jesus did
psalm 100:4, 103:12, Ezekiel 36:26 amazing grace this is, and by God it is continual to continue to trust God, no matter what. me at least
God just loves us all, amazing.
i do not see how anyone does not respond in thanksgiving and praise with all sin taken away by Son. Except unbelief to the Holy Spirit, the only sin, which unbelief to God is blaspheme, that will not get forgiven ever. As daddy waits patiently for the next person to change their mind in belief to God who seriously does love them too.
amazing grace, given without any flesh work to get it. If is, then it is not a gift.

Amen. Our society is "works based", and that can carry over into our Christian lives as well. My focus needs to be letting go of my need to have control and allowing God to produce the fruits of His Spirit within me.

I like how John sums up our relationship with God very well - "...we love God, and keep his commandments." I'm not a perfect child by any means, and I have let my parents down on more than one occasion. But, I have always loved them, and I want to please them and make them happy that I'm their son. They are not just parents; they are two of my best friends as well.

I think that's the type of relationship God wants to have with us as His children as well. As He pours out His love to us, we in turn begin to give that love back to Him. We don't keep His commandments out of some burdensome duty fearing punishment. God's commandments are there to protect us and bring us into a life of faith, grace, and love.

We obey Him because we love Him, and the gift of the Holy Spirit allows us to express that love back to God because we truly adore, appreciate, and reverence Him for all the blessings we receive in this Father/child relationship. God is our Father, Jesus is our friend, and the Holy Spirit is that Comforter who leads us into all truth - that God is love!

Amen I like the fact that his commandments are about treating each other with love , respect , and dignity. It’s not as if God made up arbitrary rules .

“ thou shalt not kill “

this benefits mankind we can’t possibly kill God , what he told us is for our own good as a human species. Imagine if everyone obeyed the commandment “ thou shalt not kill “ the benefit would be completely mankind’s benefit .

“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I can’t love God and keep his commandments if I dont love my brother by keeping his commandments , my fellow man

“If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭4:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

remember man is the image of God. My point is the things the lord taught his people that believe in him , are to help man for our good . Don’t kill each other, don’t lie to each other , don’t steal from each other , don’t commit adultery against one another ect

his commands are coming from love of the whole human kind . He loves so what do you do when one man kills another you love them both ? You have to set up a standard that’s fornthe good of all and it has to be enforced or you have an unsafe environment for the beloved

The best thing I’ve found about God is that everything he’s said and done is for us , to save and help and give us life

Thou shalt not sin against one another instead treat one another this way as I’m teaching you …..

its not as if God set up a hard obstacle course that’s for entertainment to see what we’ll do . It all has a purpose in his plan each word and saying. He’s creation a perfect world for mankknd where nonone kills and steals and chests and lies and abuses ect

Excellent thoughts, brother. God's commandments set the standard for love towards God and towards our fellow mankind. It's all about relationships, and I've learned that's what makes this life worth living. It's not about the money, leisure, and popularity. I have been enriched through my relationship with Jesus to have tremendous relationships with people from all walks of life.

I like your obstacle course analogy, and I agree that this life is helping to prepare us for eternity. God wants us to succeed, and He desires us to choose life. Nevertheless, doesn't it feel like we are in an obstacle course at times? There are some days at work especially where I feel like I've been setup for misery, and there are those who enjoy that (Satan and his clan especially). It's so frustrating at times, and it seems like I'm all alone fighting forces much more powerful than me.

I know that's when I'm supposed to just let go and turn the battle over to the Lord, but the old man still has a lot of pride and wants to fight for himself and take the credit for the victory. I even argue with the Lord at times and express anger at what appears to be unfair circumstances. Why do we have to suffer? Why has our loved ones died and left us behind? Why am I stuck in this dead-end job?

That's life in our fallen world, and the Lord has graciously allowed me to complain about bad times. He can take it. I come to my senses eventually and ask God to forgive me for my behavior. And, I've noticed as I get older that I am much more at peace thanks to that fruit coming to maturity within me by the grace of God. I guess what I'm trying to say is I need to keep fighting and trust that our General is there with us to ensure we win the war and enjoy Peace with Him forever.

amen dear brother to what you said there

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭

“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭

“Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; ….For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light ( for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1, 8-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Hearing believing the gospel redeems mankind from the lies that caused thier fall

this part is hard sometimes it seems like for Christian’s to accept but it’s also spoken to us to keep us safe as in a warning of danger

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I tried to live under the law as well but eventually fell flat on my face in frustration. The church I was in at that time believed that if we worked hard at prayer, fasting, intense study, and serving, we would have the strength to live out the requirements of the law and reflect the nature of Christ. We didn't understand Romans chapter 7 as you note above:

Romans 7:4

New King James Version

4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

The focus needs to be on Christ, not the law. We can't produce fruit by our own works - that fruit is produced by Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit. It's only then that we can live out the commandments of Christ, by the power of God and not our own feeble efforts.

Romans 7:6

New King James Version

6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Trying to live out the letter of the law is vanity because of our selfish, sinful nature. Instead, we should strive to "serve in the newness of the Spirit" by allowing God to root out our imperfections and replace our stony hearts with a new heart and Spirit.

Might
come to see turning to God, trusting God over the thought of allowing God. Trust for that new heart, Ezekiel 36:26 is given in-the risen Christ, to those without any ulterior motive to get anything. God reveals this to his, that choose God freely, not caring to gain a thing here

I wanted to get back to your original posting about forgiveness, brother, and I like how you highlight how important it is for us to be merciful like our Father in heaven is. It's just incredible that we have direct access to the Mercy Seat now through Jesus' sacrifice for us, and our sins are washed away in His blood. There is no end to the forgiveness and mercy we have as God's children.

We need to pass that same forgiveness on to others as well, and it's not just for their benefit. Forgiving others takes a huge burden off our shoulders as well because we can let anger and vengeance consume us if we're not careful. Look at the conflicts among nations today, and I don't see any effort by either side to forgive and seek a peaceful resolution to the wars. There is too much pride, and the lack of trust goes back multiple generations like the tension that the Jews and Palestinians have shared for centuries. Forgiveness and reconciliation will only happen in God's kingdom in these instances of deep mistrust and hatred.

Forgiveness doesn't mean we need to become best friends with our adversaries either. There are some people who I have forgiven that I have no interest in hanging out with because of conflicting values and lifestyles. I'm cordial. and I certainly want to work together with these people if there are shared interests at stake in a work environment, for example. However, I'm not going out with these people to "party" after work and then feel like crap the next morning because of a hangover.

Forgiveness should be a living part of who we are as Christians. As God is merciful towards us, we extend that mercy to others. It's the only way to build trust and show others we are willing to forgive and move on for the best interests of all parties. We are setting the stage for peaceful relationships like we will experience forever under Christ Jesus as our King.

Amen brother I appreciate that you got back to the op I feel it has a lot of value to those willing to consider what the lord said to believers in him about forgivness since we believe in him

“It’s amazing we have access to the Mercy Seat now through Jesus' sacrifice for us, and our sins are washed away in His blood. There is no end to the forgiveness and mercy we have as God's children.”

yes there’s also no end to the mercy we are fre to give others the same source of his blood and tears paid fornthier sins too. When he’s telling us these things they are coming from God in heaven

to those who believe in him says he

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any:

that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭

The value of this seems apparent to me itnis the only begotten son of God the messiah teaching those who believe in him about thier father in heaven and tbier eternal judgement.

ive found no comparable position in this world the only son of God tesching man about God the father in heaven who nonone has seen and cannot see but for him who tells us hear me and believe and live

amen very wise words here

“We need to pass that same forgiveness on to others as well, and it's not just for their benefit. Forgiving others takes a huge burden off our shoulders as well because we can let anger and vengeance consume us if we're not careful. Look at the conflicts among nations today, and I don't see any effort by either side to forgive and seek a peaceful resolution to the wars. There is too much pride, and the lack of trust goes back multiple generations like the tension that the Jews and Palestinians have shared for centuries. Forgiveness and reconciliation will only happen in God's kingdom in these instances of deep mistrust and hatred.”

indeed and think of the affront to Jesus suffering and death when I , a so called born again child of God won’t forgive someone for some sin against me ? It’s an absurd position to withhold what he suffered and died to give them all.


More wisdom here brother

“Forgiveness doesn't mean we need to become best friends with our adversaries either. There are some people who I have forgiven that I have no interest in hanging out with because of conflicting values and lifestyles. I'm cordial. and I certainly want to work together with these people if there are shared interests at stake in a work environment, for example. However, I'm not going out with these people to "party" after work and then feel like crap the next morning because of a hangover.”

dont think I could agree more if I wanted to infact we can even forgive them between God and ourselves ask him not to hold it against them without ever even talking to them we should of course try but sometimes we do t have that option and if we told them we forgave them it would just cause more problems “ forgive me for what I did t do anything to you ect “

often most often really there’s an aspect of the relationship between myself and the lord

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

even if I’m jot able to go to the person and tell them I’ve forgiven them what matters is the reality between God and myself being the child he’s teaching me to be and forgiving is just part of our identity in Christ part of being re made in his image we should agree with his principles or there’s an issue

I appreciate your words brother always

therefore, I see to forgive, since by God in Son I am forgiven at that cross.
Romans 2:1-4