Jehovah’s Witnesses

@williamjordan

It doesn't seem as if we'll change each others minds, so we'll just have to agree to disagree and move on, so as not to drag this on.

See you in the Kingdom

RR

I don't know about you, but I am not so stubborn: I change my mind all the time. And I am especially acquainted (very well) with your brand of Christology.

To the Newbies out there reading this,

There was an incorrect claim that "the early church did not believe in the Trinity of God," at least that's close to the quote.

I will not repeat what Dr Stringer explained better than I in the video below. I recommend everyone listen to it as he established that the Word of God was available to the churches (pl) and contained I John 5:7 as is correctly included in our English KJ Bible.

7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Jesus is the Word.

There are records of plenty of churches that Believed the doctrine of the Trinity as we see in I John 5:7 among many other references OT and NT.
The Jehovah's false Witnesses happen to reject that fundamental Christian doctrine as some other false religions that reject the description of God as He gives us throughout from Genesis and ends with Revelation.

I don't believe that there's a catholic assembly called "the church ". There were plenty of churches with plenty of problems and even heresy that was addressed by the Apostles and by Christ directly. They were autonomous assemblies in various locations.

Last night I read Isaiah 40 and found another Messianic scripture about John the Baptist's ministry concerning God on earth.

Isaiah 40:3 quoted in Luke 3:4
3The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

The Holy Spirit is in verse 13
13Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?

Concerning the Word of God in the same chapter...8The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
A few days ago, Baptist historian and preacher, Phil Stringer, taught on the historical records concerning the strong Trinitarian Scripture that Wescott , Hort and many since have lied about, 1 John 5:7 KJB
Those unsaved men rejected the doctrine of the Trinity as they did the inspiration/ preservation of Scriptures. One was into the occult and necromancy. They are the basis for commentators today. When you read false marginal statements such as, "not in the oldest and most reliable texts", you can thank the commentator for believing two very wicked men who would never be allowed to speak in a decent church if they were alive today.

There are plenty of Bible reasons why we should believe that Jesus is 100% God while at the same time 100% sinless man while He walked the Earth creating all the food that thousands of families ate while following Him. Only God could do that. He healed the lame, blind, deaf, dumb, sick, and even raised the dead after they started decomposing. Ie.Lazurus.
He fulfilled the OT prophesies that said that He was God, Creator of the universe. I could go on, but that's plenty of food for thought for now.
Study it and review so you will remember when one of the cults knocks on your door, talks to you at school or after work.

Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses do not know God the Father became they do not know the Son. BTW, the Spirit of God is also Old Testament teaching.

The true Witnesses of Jehovah are those who are true servants of the Son of God in the Old Testament and New. Jesus is in the OT many times. Many don't believe that. That's because they chose to believe false witnesses.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit.
Believe the truth and sell it not.

Don't be a sell out. Read, study, obey and share the truth in love.
That's my encouragement for someone tonight or tomorrow.

Have a good night and bless others with this much needed teaching of our precious Savior.

To your health and happiness.
🍵🙂👍📖

We've talked about this before, but for some reason..many are accepting baptismal regeneration. It seems to be more and more popular.

It's not the h20 that saves..it's Jesus. 😀

The error originated with Justin Martyr (perhaps he meant well) and became a part of Roman Catholic doctrine. They seriously believe that an infant in regenerated by sprinkling water on him. So this is more "magical" than anything else (just like the wafer for Mass). Eastern Orthodox beliefs are somewhat similar. Then Protestant denominations call baptism a "means of grace".

Then a whole bunch of Christians failed to investigate what Christ means by "water and the Spirit" and simply decided that it meant H2O and the Spirit. Then another group of Christians decided that Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 are all that one needs to understand the requirements for salvation. And one can post the truth and they will simply double down and cling to their false beliefs.

.
The Watchtower Society insists people cease to exist as persons when each
passes away as if human existence is no more perpetual than that of a skunk,
an ostrich, or a lobster. However . . .

● Eccl 12:7 . .Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be
and the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it.

The million dollar question is: What does God do with people's spirit when He
gets it back? Is it possible the spirits of the dead are transferable to an
alternate form of existence?

Those are very, very disturbing questions; especially for JWs because they believe
the angel Michael's life force was transferred to Mary's womb so he could exist as
a human being without losing the essence of his identity; and then when his
human existence passed away on the cross, Michael's life force was transferred back
so he could pick up where he left off as an angel. Were I a JW, the Watchtower Society's
thoughts about life force would make me very nervous.
_

.
The Old Testament predicted that Messiah would be promoted to a high
position.

"Look! My servant will act with insight. He will be in high station and will
certainly be elevated and exalted very much." (Isa 52:13)

The extent of Messiah's elevation and exaltation wasn't fully appreciated
until the New Testament wherein it says:

"When he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and
became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very
reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the
name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every
knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under
the ground." (Phil 2:8-10)

God didn't merely give Jesus a high name; He gave Jesus "the" name that's
above every other name, which just about any well-trained Bible student
knows is Jehovah per Deut 6:4.

So then; Jesus has the God-given right to identify himself as Jehovah, and to
be given obeisance as Jehovah. Refusal to give Jesus the proper reverence due
God's name is very disrespectful.

FAQ: But doesn't Phil 2:8-10 contradict Isa 42:8 where it says: "I am
Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give My own glory"

REPLY: I think it best to understand that verse as saying God won't allow
Himself to be supplanted. I really don't think its saying He can't willingly
share either His name and/or His glory with His one and only paternal
descendant, i.e. the son that God loves and admires more than all other
creatures: either underground, above ground, or up in the sky.

● John 3:35 . .The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his
hands.
_

When JWs show up at my door, the first thing I tell them is that I'm Christian and of a Protestant denomination. 99% of the time they'll say "Thank you", and leave.

He was fully God and fully Man.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-2
Easy-to-Read Version
Evil Things Will Happen
2 Brothers and sisters, we have something to say about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. We want to talk to you about that time when we will meet together with him. 2 Don’t let yourselves be easily upset or worried if you hear that the day of the Lord(Jehovah) has already come. Someone might say that this idea came from us—in something the Spirit told us, or in something we said, or in a letter we wrote.

In their Kingdom Interlinear, they have day of Jehovah. The Greek word for Lord in Lord Jesus Christ in both verses is Kurous. The grammar is the same as is the word. When one translates one as Jehovah, a honest revisor must translat from verse one as Jehovah Jesus Christ. I keep my copy of their
Interlinear on hand at the door. I only need to share this one fact and they make excuses to leave.

I once invited them in, while I was in the latrine, they stole some of my books and cds of watchtower writings.
One of the cds was charles russell anthropy cd by international research

Arianism around 250-325 AD

Listening to demons, false revelations, poor interpretation of Scripture, dishonestly

It's simpler to me I have the later day saints try to get be to become a mormon,alouugh I'm not Christian because I've not been baptized. But I'm not ignorant so I went alone had a read of the book of norman. Well one of the main prophets. Neffi had to obtain some key from a man in the local village. So he set about to obtain there with his brother in hand they hid behind a wall and fortunately for them the man who had these keys came out of this in Drunk as a skunk.Neffi goes over with his brother takes the keys and kills the man. I also watched a DVD on another bloke james who is the man who found the plates in USA These are what the book of norman is built on. When he was basically a outlaw for trying to convert Christian to morans.when they found him he hiding under a bed while other people tried and died protecting him, that was me done. The mormans came around again and I told them no way a religion should be built on cowardice actions.Take Nerri and his brother he missed the signs because the man was drunk there were 2 off them they didn't need to kill him the sign to me was hes drunk I dont need to harm him I can just take the keys a warn him. Secondly I think its Joseph james hid under the bed. I think he should have grown a pair and gone out to be arrested and saved other people's lives pair of cowards. I never sore them again after that I'm hoping I turn them 😃 if you can find something that goes totally against even logic. in there views hammer them with it and they will be no more. I've found it hard to forgive until, I read a chat someone posted to me all about it's the love its powerful and its helping me that's what it's all about love respect and many other good things all learnt from our bible

Segue to Mohammed.

That would normally surprise me, but I have neighbors like that who are JWs.
They tried to get away with running their bathroom flush pipe into my field and other major things they were often in trouble for.

Below Is one more point to add without rewriting the entire context.


To the Newbies out there reading this,

There was an incorrect claim that "the early church did not believe in the Trinity of God," at least that's close to the quote.

I will not repeat what Dr Stringer explained better than I in the video below. I recommend everyone listen to it as he established that the Word of God was available to the churches (pl) and contained I John 5:7 as is correctly included in our English KJ Bible.

7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Jesus is the Word.

There are records of plenty of churches that Believed the doctrine of the Trinity as we see in I John 5:7 among many other references OT and NT.
The Jehovah's false Witnesses happen to reject that fundamental Christian doctrine as some other false religions that reject the description of God as He gives us throughout from Genesis and ends with Revelation.

I don't believe that there's a catholic assembly called "the church ". There were plenty of churches with plenty of problems and even heresy that was addressed by the Apostles and by Christ directly. They were autonomous assemblies in various locations.

Last night I read Isaiah 40 and found another Messianic scripture about John the Baptist's ministry concerning God on earth.

Isaiah 40:3 quoted in Luke 3:4
3The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

The Holy Spirit is in verse 13
13Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?

Concerning the Word of God in the same chapter...8The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
A few days ago, Baptist historian and preacher, Phil Stringer, taught on the historical records concerning the strong Trinitarian Scripture that Wescott , Hort and many since have lied about, 1 John 5:7 KJB
Those unsaved men rejected the doctrine of the Trinity as they did the inspiration/ preservation of Scriptures. One was into the occult and necromancy. They are the basis for commentators today. When you read false marginal statements such as, "not in the oldest and most reliable texts", you can thank the commentator for believing two very wicked men who would never be allowed to speak in a decent church if they were alive today.

There are plenty of Bible reasons why we should believe that Jesus is 100% God while at the same time 100% sinless man while He walked the Earth creating all the food that thousands of families ate while following Him. Only God could do that. He healed the lame, blind, deaf, dumb, sick, and even raised the dead after they started decomposing. Ie.Lazurus.
He fulfilled the OT prophesies that said that He was God, Creator of the universe. I could go on, but that's plenty of food for thought for now.
Study it and review so you will remember when one of the cults knocks on your door, talks to you at school or after work.

Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses do not know God the Father became they do not know the Son. BTW, the Spirit of God is also Old Testament teaching.

The true Witnesses of Jehovah are those who are true servants of the Son of God in the Old Testament and New. Jesus is in the OT many times. Many don't believe that. That's because they chose to believe false witnesses.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit.
Believe the truth and sell it not.

Don't be a sell out. Read, study, obey and share the truth in love.
That's my encouragement for someone tonight or tomorrow.

Have a good night and bless others with this much needed teaching of our precious Savior.

To your health and happiness.
🍵🙂👍📖


\/ \/
One more point.
There are those who claimed that the Trinity of God is not mentioned in the Old Testament, but a Christian invention and heresy.
To disprove that false belief I could point them to plenty of references showing that the Father is God, the Spirit is God and the Son is God.
Those I pointed this out to usually have no answer or they demand an OT verse like I John 5:7 KJV only.
I just found one more passage in personal devotions tonight from Isaiah 48

12Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. 13Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.....
16Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

I wasn't looking for this proof verse, but the Lord pointed it out to me. Those who do not want to see Who God is will not be convinced regardless of this irrefutable Scriptural evidence.
Those who have eyes to see will indeed see Him for Who He is.

.
Luke 16:19-31 tells of three men in the afterlife. The story is alleged to be
one of several New Testament parables: which are stories variously regarded
as fact, fantasy, and fiction.

A problem with the fantasy/fiction view is Abraham. He's an historical
person; plus he's said to be one of God's buddies. (Isa 41:8) Well; the story
quotes Abraham a number of times. It seems inappropriate to me that a
Bible story would quote an important historical figure saying things that he
didn't really say.

The fiction/fantasy opinion also alleges that the Greek word haides in verse
23 pertains to the rich man's grave. Well; we can be reasonably certain that
Abraham is dead and buried (Gen 25:8-10) So I am very curious how the
two men's dead bodies were able to communicate with one another at all let
alone through solid ground from grave to grave. Aren't graves supposedly
pitch black dark? Are dead bodies somehow equipped with night vision or
maybe even X-ray vision so they can see thru the ground into other graves?

Plus; dead bodies typically exhibit no mental activity; and have lost the use
of their five natural senses of taste, touch, sight, hearing, and smell. Yet in
death the rich man's body is fully sentient, viz: he complains about heat
from the flames around him, he is in misery due to dehydration, he is able
to see across a barrier to where Abraham is located, and he is said to
experience anxiety relative to the possibility of five brothers joining him in
rather unpleasant circumstances.

It appears from the language and grammar of the story that Lazarus' angelic
transportation buried his corpse alongside Abraham's corpse, i.e. he and
Abraham appear to be sharing the same grave. But the man was a diseased
pauper in life so it's extremely doubtful his remains were given any kind of a
funeral at all but instead were likely incinerated in a community landfill.
_

I got the point you were trying to make but I was pointing out, that as true believers, we should not sink down to an argument that matches their worldly philosophical and humanistic view. Rather we should argue from the Holy Scriptures and the Scriptures alone. All else is irrelevant. That is why I stated: " Any belief system, worth a grain of salt, must be based on Scripture and Scripture alone. Not upon adopted creeds or church history or tradition... unless they agree with the objective Truth of God revealed in His Holy Word. " Paul warned Timothy to avoid such.

1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, guard that which is committed unto thee, turning away from the profane babblings and oppositions of the knowledge which is falsely so called;
1Ti 6:21 which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with you.

So you answered the easy question but what happened to the responses, from you, on the verses I gave to you in which the Bible says that Jesus Christ is God?

You say that God is not Triune. Okay. You also state, that the Bible does not speak directly to God's Trinity - That is true, however, many truths are discovered by putting together certain Bible statements that require thought and reasonable conclusions. Therefore, I am compelled to ask you to explain the following, from the Bible, if God is not Triune.

How is this observation possible?

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him;
Mat 3:17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

There is only one reasonable explanation for this account -
1) JESUS - Second person of the God-head - who came in the flesh.
2) THE SPIRIT - Third person of the God-head.
3) A VOICE - The Father - First person of the God-head.

Please explain how ONE - non Triune God, could accomplish this?