Gods will vs mans free will

Where does it state we are born enslaved to sin?

It honours God to presuppose that His punishments for not obeying His commands imply that God knows we can obey them.
Presupposing that God commands things He knows we cannot do and then punishes us for not doing them, impugns God's character as unjust.

"Effectual call" is not in the Bible. What is driving you to create terms that are not biblical and imposing them onto the Bible in order to manufacture evidence for theories that do not derive from sola scriptura?

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men Titus 2:11 (KJV)

Cheers for those beautiful scriptures glf, i've only just begun to find out how true they are and am loving the journey.

Doesn't much of Calvinism do that, create terms that is? (rhetorical question)

Effectual call, limited atonement, prevenient grace, total depravity, unconditional election......the best one of all "the doctrines of grace."

In John 8:34 right out of Jesus mouth-

34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin...."

What are people born as? Saints? What is every man born to?

Does it state a person is born a slave to sin?

I don't think so....

Okay then, so where does it say we are born perfect and not born sinners?

I don't think anywhere....

Yeah you may have to think a few of these things out brother, but this follows perfectly. We are born fallen, every man a sinner, none are righteous, not even one. How can this be when there are TONS of babies born every hour if what you're "suggesting" is true. Do you think we are not born sinners? That we are not born spiritually dead, disconnected from God? Make your case as well, you can't just attack mine like your word is the bottom line here. If you're saying I'm wrong and we are not born sinners then please show me where it says that. Make your case friend.

Here are a few scripture that point me to man being fallen from birth.
Genesis 8:21
And when the Lord smelled the pleasing aroma, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done.

Romans 5:19
For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

Ephesians 2:3
Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

1 John 1:10
If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

So now let us see the case for us not being sinners from birth, from you. Please.

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin...."

Rom. 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

They had not yet practised sin, therefore they were not yet sinners.

Spare me of your inane analogies, please. The irrefutable fact remains that non-Reformed people do NOT tell unbelievers that Christ's atonement actually saves them -- even though they do simultaneously speak out of the other side of their mouth and tell the lost world that "Christ died for them". Therefore, since Christ's atonement alone doesn't actually save anyone, the non-Reformed limit the atonement qualitatively. And it's limited qualitatively because unbelievers must first elect Christ (choose to believe the gospel and repent) before God can elect them! The unbelievers have to actually put the finishing touches on Christ's atonement in order to be saved, since Christ did only part of the job!

So show me the scripture that says we are born perfect. Simple as that. Give 1 that backs up we are born without sin.

"The irrefutable fact remains that non-Reformed people do NOT tell unbelievers that Christ's atonement actually saves them -- even though they do simultaneously speak out of the other side of their mouth and tell the lost world that "Christ died for them".

Really disagree with that Rufus, i grew up in a Catholic family and had a "Jesus Saves, Moses Invests!" t-shirt. when a teenager in the '70's.

You do hold to the two categories. In fact, you just admitted it in the bolded red section above! Since Christ's atonement was merely the first step, and other steps must be taken by hearers of the gospel in order to procure the atonement for themselves, then you just unwittingly proved that Christ's Atonement was indeed LIMITED qualitatively because the first step Christ took doesn't actually save anyone! He supposed died for everyone but his atonement itself doesn't save anyone. In order for Christ's atonement to be qualitatively universal, it would need to be efficacious.

Your lame cars and keys analogy is your worst yet! What good does a spiffy new, perfect car and perfect set of keys do for drivers who are technologically-challenged, since they come into this world with an anti-technology disposition because they love the simpler ways of life? Your analogy completely overlooks man's spiritual problem. Your analogy assumes that many men will love their gifts; whereas the spiritual reality is that man is helplessly enslaved to his sin nature, to the world, to the devil and to the law, and as such hates God and loves the darkness, the world and all that is evil. You analogy lacks the twin components of man's helplessness and God's merciful rescue. Your analogy says the New World Order began a good work but the people of the world must complete it -- a concept that is totally antithetical to scripture.

Well....there is a lot of religious junk in the world -- both in terms of art and literature. But did the T-shirt tell people how Jesus "saves"?

Not enough room on it, i was a skinny little thing but we were told how at school and church.

Gods will vs mans free will

Man has Free Will only for choice ------that is it -----God will not interfere in what choices we humans make ----They can accept or reject God -----they can believe that Jesus walked the earth or not believe it ---they can decide to work or not to work ----we can follow Satan and despise God ----God allows us that freedom of choice -----Human choices have nothing to do with what God's will wants ----as we are under Satan's rule and follow his will a lot of the time ----
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We have a corrupt Nature until God pulls on our hardened heart to repent and accept His Salvation offer ====and we have a choice to accept that pull or reject it -----

If we accept His pull and embrace His Gift of Salvation --then and only then does His Will for us come into focus ------we have a nature change and begin to know what God's will for us actually means and entails -----

Seeking God's will for one's life means Praying ---discerning ----reading His word and listening to the Holy Spirit's directions -----

when we come to Christ ---we are to lay down ----ego ---and choosing to do what we want ---when we want and how we want to do things -----and find out what God wants us to do ---when to do it and how to do it -----which pleases Him not us ------

We were slaves to this wicked world and then by accepting Jesus in our hearts ----we are now Slaves of Christ ----