The hatred of Jews

When the Catholic church speaks, it speaks for all. The pope also apologized to the Jews aside from what was in the post. Protestants don't have a collective like Catholics do as you well know. But they still came out and denounced and apologized for the Replacement Theology teaching. You said that was incorrect. You were wrong. There is nothing misleading or any trickery in what I said. I get you believe you can't be wrong Mo, but you are. Both sides rejected the teaching with a formal statement.

@ThereRoseaLamb - you keep saying that God will not break His promises - I do not believe anyone disagrees - we all know God will keep His promises. However, what you refuse to hear (it seems) - and understand - is that 1948 is NOT the center-focal-point of [any of] His promises concerning Israel - they are yet to be fulfilled.
Christ Jesus Himself will fulfill the dry bones prophecy. He will raise them up again as a nation in fulfillment of biblical prophecy - after He returns at the Second Coming of Christ. All of the land that God promised - that is yet future also. Nothing that occurred in 1948 has fulfilled any of the promises of God to Israel as you believe it has - this is what you need to understand . Please answer a question for me - simple answer - 'Yes' or 'No' - do you believe the dry bones prophecy has been fulfilled? .

There is nothing wrong with "unconditional and everlasting" - only, the point in time from which it "begins" simply has not arrived yet.

Of course they are yet to be fulfilled. Israel is still under a spiritual blindness as Romans 11 tells us. But 1948 is the beginning of God's prophetic time clock, it is the nation that was born in a day.




It began with the promise made to Abraham. More than that, a covenant that was so important God gave the boundaries of the land. No other place on earth is called the "Apple of God's Eye" no other country that brings blessing or curses.

Gen 12-3 I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.

Let me ask you and Mo and Carrie, does God still love the Jewish people and have a plan for them?!

My understanding is that the things done in the OT are an example for us, and that we are the Israel of God spiritually. However, God's covenant with Israel is eternal, it is still in effect, and they have not been "replaced". Yes, they have been disciplined, punished, and "cut off" for many years. But it was God that brought them back to Israel, not the Rothschilds, or Satan or any of that. Are they all godly? No, not even the majority of them. They are an example of the faithfulness of God even when we are not faithful.

Obviously we have Jews who have received the gospel and been saved.

But the nation of Israel will be saved after the gospel of grace is no longer in effect. They will be saved to be priests to our God and to teach the nations about God.

I also believe that the reason those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed is because your blessing or curse will rebound onto yourself. Whatever you judge concerning Israel will apply to yourself. Do you judge that God has forsaken them because of their sins? Well, you have just judged yourself. Do you judge that God has blessed them because He is faithful? Again, you have just judged yourself.

My understanding is that the things done in the OT are an example for us, and that we are the Israel of God spiritually. However, God's covenant with Israel is eternal, it is still in effect, and they have not been "replaced". Yes, they have been disciplined, punished, and "cut off" for many years. But it was God that brought them back to Israel, not the Rothschilds, or Satan or any of that. Are they all godly? No, not even the majority of them. They are an example of the faithfulness of God even when we are not faithful.

Obviously we have Jews who have received the gospel and been saved.

But the nation of Israel will be saved after the gospel of grace is no longer in effect. They will be saved to be priests to our God and to teach the nations about God.

I also believe that the reason those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed is because your blessing or curse will rebound onto yourself. Whatever you judge concerning Israel will apply to yourself. Do you judge that God has forsaken them because of their sins? Well, you have just judged yourself. Do you judge that God has blessed them because He is faithful? Again, you have just judged yourself.

The old covenant is still in operation?

Jesus wasn't an activist. He didn't stir up hatred. Jesus never said, hate the Jews.

Yes, the prophets still have prophecies that have not been fulfilled, the word of God is still living whether it is OT or NT and yes, the covenant made with Abraham is still in effect. That covenant includes the Messiah coming to save them and He will do that at the end of the seven year tribulation prophesied of in Zechariah as well as in Revelation.

The Law is a school master that leads us to Jesus Christ. The Jews who are saved as a nation at the end of the seven year tribulation period described in Revelation will also be led to Jesus Christ. Just as He said, they will say "blessed it He that comes in the name of the Lord".

Jesus called the Jews a brood of vipers, whitewashed tombs, liars, killers, children of the devil. Was Jesus a Jew hater? He loved them, wept over them, gave His life for them. And they murdered Him. And thanks to Nelson Darby et al, these same Jews (though they are not really descendants of Abraham or heirs to the promise in any way, but usurpers (Jesus knew), are now worshipped by modern "christians" more than Christ Himself. So deceived in fact, that they want to help these name stealers build a temple for Satan and they don't care how many have to die to do it. Not knowing somehow that they themselves are Gods temple, and true Israel. Am I a Jew hater too?

So when the writer of Hebrews says the old covenant is going away and the new is coming in, he wasn't referring to the old covenant? And why did God destroy the temple if it was necessary to old covenant practices?
And isn't all prophecy fulfilled in Christ?

Jesus called the Jews a brood of vipers, whitewashed tombs, liars, killers, children of the devil. Was Jesus a Jew hater? He loved them, wept over them, gave His life for them. And they murdered Him. And thanks to Nelson Darby et al, these same Jews (though they are not really descendants of Abraham or heirs to the promise in any way, but usurpers (Jesus knew), are now worshipped by modern "christians" more than Christ Himself. So deceived in fact, that they want to help these name stealers build a temple for Satan and they don't care how many have to die to do it. Not knowing somehow that they themselves are Gods temple, and true Israel. Am I a Jew hater too?

So when the writer of Hebrews says the old covenant is going away and the new is coming in, he wasn't referring to the old covenant? And why did God destroy the temple if it was necessary to old covenant practices?
And isn't all prophecy fulfilled in Christ?

What are you intentionally dense? The New Testament is a marriage contract, the Old Testament is also a marriage contract. Both of these contracts are with the Triune God. According to the Old Testament they should have seen and recognized Jesus Christ as the Messiah. Some did, Peter, Paul, John were all Jews. Some didn't but have since repented.

However, if you read their marriage contract it is very clear that God does not forsake them, rather He gives them a second chance after the Christians are all taken (a process that takes 42 months for all of them including the two witnesses to be taken). But after the two witnesses are raised before all at which time they realize "Jesus is the Messiah" and then He will save those remaining as a nation.

All Christians are being trained to rule and reign with Christ. The Jews who are saved as a nation will be the priests that teach people about God.

The law is a shadow. All those sacrifices that were in the law were a shadow of the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross and the sacrifice that each of us is to make when we also are "crucified with Christ and it is no longer I that live". That means that Jesus is the reality of everything the OT law taught, so as long as Jesus is real the OT law points you to Jesus.

Once everyone during this age has come to Jesus there will be no more need for the law to bring people to Jesus. That time is not yet, but is fast approaching.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Yes, it is going away, but it isn't gone yet because not every jot and tittle has been fulfilled yet.

According to the Old Testament the reason God destroyed the Temple and flung the Jews out of the land is because they committed the unforgiveable sin in saying that Jesus was casting out demons by the prince of the demons.

Deuteronomy 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

...45 Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee:

46 And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.

47 Because thou servedst not the Lord thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things;

48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the Lord shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.

49 The Lord shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;

50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:

51 And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.

52 And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the Lord thy God hath given thee.

53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the Lord thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:

54 So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave:

55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.

56 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,

57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, The Lord Thy God;

59 Then the Lord will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.

60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.

61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the Lord bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the Lord thy God.

63 And it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.

64 And the Lord shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the Lord shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:

66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:

67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.

68 And the Lord shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.

Dense? Perhaps, but God divorced the nation of Israel in the first century. That's what the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple is all about. He ended the old covenant and ushered in a new and eternal covenant. The whole book of Hebrews is a testimony to Christ and the superior covenant He brought in to the one being replaced. And the book of Revelation is primarily concerned with the bringing to pass on Israel the sanctions for their failure to keep the old covenant.

There is no difference any longer between Jew and Greek. God is dealing with individuals salvationally, actually as He always has. While most people saved in the OT were Jews, far from all Jews were saved. At any given time there was only a remnant who were actually the Israel of God.

I recognize that many will label this as replacement theology, but it is not. It is continuation theology. It was always the plan of God to unite mankind in Christ; into one new creation.

Galatians 3:15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”[i] meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

The covenant made with Abraham pointed to Jesus coming and taking away their sins. If they receive Jesus they will be saved and the veil will be removed from their heart.

However, the old covenant cannot be done away by having a new covenant. Instead what Paul says is that the old covenant (using marriage covenant as the analogy) is only in force as long as the husband is alive. Since Jesus is the husband his death releases the Jews from the Old covenant marriage contract so that they can receive the New Covenant marriage contract. But until they see that Jesus is the Messiah and He died on the cross they are still bound by the Old Covenant.

Yes, it will be done away with when all the Jews say "blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord" till then it is still in effect.

This is similar to the Japanese soldiers on remote Pacific islands that thought WWII was still being fought long after Japan had surrendered.

Yes, but the war had actually ended. Just because they still fought doesn't mean the war isn't actually passed. Similarly, simply because Jews still hold to old covenant teaching doesn't mean the covenant hasn't vanished. They may partake in it, but God is not. They have no means to God. The place where God made His presence known no longer exists.

The enduring covenants from the OT are the covenants of grace, wherein Christ is prefigured. The law has been fulfilled by Jesus. The old heavens and the old earth have passed away as heaven has been cleansed by the blood of Christ and Satan and his third have been exiled from there and sin can enter no more, and earth is now under the authority of Christ who received all authority from the Father, possesses the keys to death and hell, and is building His kingdom through the church and by a supernatural birth which the powers of hell are impotent to stay. This is the real new world order and it has been functioning for some 2,000 years.

The only way you can prove your position is to look at the Old Covenant and show from the Bible, in the Old Testament, at what point in time the covenant comes to an end. The claim that God divorced Israel is not sufficient because the prophets also say even though she was put away He will receive her back. Everything else you are saying doesn't support your position at all. Paul said the covenant was near to disappearing, meaning it hadn't disappeared. The New Testament tells us clearly when the gospel of grace ends and the eternal gospel is once again preached.

So then, from the covenant God made with Israel show where He said that it would expire.

Thank you.

Read Deuteronomy 28:15 to the end. It very clearly teaches what will happen if Israel doesn't keep all the terms of the covenant. Now read Revelation 16 as the vials are poured out noting the similarities between the promised curses and what is poured out from the vials.

It's also worth reading the 3 parables beginning in Matthew 21:28 to 22:14. These parables deal with the succession of the kingdom. In 21:43 Jesus clearly says that the kingdom will be taken from them and given to another.

It's also worth reading Josephus's account of the destruction of Jerusalem and how closely it is to the language of the Bible.

Revelation is dealing with the destruction of Israel and the temple. And Revelation matches the curses God promised if Israel was unfaithful to the covenant in Deuteronomy.