I was wondering who believes you can get unsaved.

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do you believe you can be unsaved after salvation?


  • Total voters
    45

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,892
29,281
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Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.
:)

Galatians 5:14, Ecclesiastes 12:13, Romans 13:10b The entire law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” When all has been heard, the conclusion of the matter is this: Fear God and keep His commandments, because this is the whole duty of man. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. :)
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
735
187
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Here is Bible proof (22 scriptures) for why I believe the Bible teaches that a saved person can be lost if he leaves God or lives in sin:

Exodus 32:33-“Whoever has sinned against Me, I WILL BLOT HIM OUT OF MY BOOK.

1Chron. 28:9-“…if you forsake Him, He will CAST YOU OFF.”

Lamentations 5:16-“The crown has FALLEN from our head. Woe to us for we have sinned.
Verse 21-“Turn us back to you O Lord, and we will be RESTORED; …unless you have utterly rejected us.

Acts 8:20-24-Simon had believed and been baptized, then sinned. Peter said, “your money PERISH with you. Repent and pray—why? Because he was in danger of “perishing!”

Romans 11:20-22-“Behold the goodness and severity of God. On those who FELL, severity, but toward you goodness. IF you CONTINUE in goodness , otherwise, YOU TOO, will be CUT OFF!”

1 Cor. 9:24-27-Paul the apostle says he had to discipline his body , lest after he had preached to others, he would be “DISQUALIFIED” in the race for an imperishable crown.

1Cor. 10:12-“Let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he FALLS!”

Gal. 5:4-“…you are FALLEN from Grace!”

1 Tim. 1:19-some had “SHIPWRECKED” their faith.

Hebrews 2:1-“Lest we DRIFT AWAY.”

Hebrews 3:12- “Beware BRETHREN (Christian’s) lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in. DEPARTING FROM the living God….lest any of you (Christian’s) be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ ( Christian’s). IF. we. HOLD STEADFAST to the end.”

Revelation 2:10-“Be faithful unto death and you will receive the crown of life.

Hebrews 4:11-“Lest anyone FALL…” ( from disobedience)

Hebrews 10:35-38- “Do not CAST AWAY your confidence, which has great reward….you need ENDURANCE (be faithful unto death) . Verse 38- 39-if anyone DRAWS BACK…those who DRAW BACK TO PERDITION.”

Hebrews 6:4-6-Those who were once “enlightened”, “tasted the heavenly gift”, “ have become partakers of the Holy Spirit”, and tasted the good word of God, IF THEY FALL AWAY…”

Hebrews 12:15-“Lest anyone FALL SHORT of the GRACE OF GOD”

2 Peter 3:17-“Lest you FALL from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked.”

2John 1:8-“Look to yourselves that we do not LOSE those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.”

Rev. 3:11-“ HOLD FAST to what you have, that NO-ONE MAY TAKE YOUR CROWN. (To the Church)

Rev. 3:3-5-“You have received and heard, HOLD FAST and repent. There are a few in the church at Sardis, “that have not defiled their clothes. THEY are the ones who “will walk with me in white.” I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE. Jesus talking here. If He would never blot out their name, then that woujd be a lie! Jesus does not lie—neither does He make empty threats.

Rev. 3:16-Jesus tells the Christians in the church that are lukewarm, “I will vomit you out of my mouth.” They make him sick!!

Rev.2:4-5-“Remember FROM WHERE YOU HAVE FALLEN and repent!”

I believe the evidence is overwhelming that A saved person can FALL (stated in 9 scriptures) from his saved state and be lost IF he doesn’t “endure”, and remain “faithful”. to the end of his life. Acts 17:11 they searched the scriptures to see if these things were so. I invite you to study and prove this to yourself.
Yes, and here is a list I compiled:

Scriptures that teach the possibility of apostasy include the following:
MT 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
RM 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”
1CR 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”
GL 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
CL 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
2THS 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”
2TM 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”
HB 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
HB 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”
HB 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
JM 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
2PT 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
2PT 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”
1JN 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”
JUDE 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”
RV 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

I have not noticed whether anyone posted the handful of passages than can be viewed as disallowing apostasy, but if they did, I have a way to harmonize them with these.
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
612
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It's one thing to read the Bible, whereas quite another to interpret the Bible.

There are improperly catechized individuals all across the internet-- on
forums, message boards, and social media --quoting the Bible when it's
none of their business to be doing so, for example:


"Our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant
and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own
destruction". (2Pet 3:15-16)
_
yes, Paul wrote SOME things hard to understand—but NOT EVERYTHING.. Most of the Bible is “plain”. Easy to understand. I’ve been told it is written on a sixth grade level.
I don’t think “understanding” is the problem.

The atheist does not have a problem understanding Genesis 1:1 - “In the beginning God…”. He just does not BELIEVE it.
When I quote a scripture right out of the Bible and someone says “That’s just your interpretation”, I know it’s not a problem if “understanding”, but a problem of “faith.”
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
612
207
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You cannot be unsaved. Not just a conviction, it's also in the Bible.
I have posted 22 scriptures that refute this. The parable of the prodigal son, TOLD BY JESUS, is enough by itself to show that what you said is not true.

The parable of the prodigal son is a story about a father (God) who has a child that turns his back on his father and his home and throws away his inheritance (heaven) on worldly things. This is a picture of a child of God (our Father) LEAVING God and returning to the “world.” When the prodigal son “repents” ( changes his mind) and returns “home” to his father.. this parable shows the loving and forgiving nature of our God who rejoiced at his return. There is no way to MISS THIS” unless you WANT TO. Then you become like the atheist—it’s not “interpretation” or “understanding”, it’s UNBELIEF!
 
I have posted 22 scriptures that refute this. The parable of the prodigal son, TOLD BY JESUS, is enough by itself to show that what you said is not true.

The parable of the prodigal son is a story about a father (God) who has a child that turns his back on his father and his home and throws away his inheritance (heaven) on worldly things. This is a picture of a child of God (our Father) LEAVING God and returning to the “world.” When the prodigal son “repents” ( changes his mind) and returns “home” to his father.. this parable shows the loving and forgiving nature of our God who rejoiced at his return. There is no way to MISS THIS” unless you WANT TO. Then you become like the atheist—it’s not “interpretation” or “understanding”, it’s UNBELIEF!
They never truly were saved in the first place.
 
I have posted 22 scriptures that refute this. The parable of the prodigal son, TOLD BY JESUS, is enough by itself to show that what you said is not true.

The parable of the prodigal son is a story about a father (God) who has a child that turns his back on his father and his home and throws away his inheritance (heaven) on worldly things. This is a picture of a child of God (our Father) LEAVING God and returning to the “world.” When the prodigal son “repents” ( changes his mind) and returns “home” to his father.. this parable shows the loving and forgiving nature of our God who rejoiced at his return. There is no way to MISS THIS” unless you WANT TO. Then you become like the atheist—it’s not “interpretation” or “understanding”, it’s UNBELIEF!
Read John 10.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,974
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I have posted 22 scriptures that refute this. The parable of the prodigal son, TOLD BY JESUS, is enough by itself to show that what you said is not true.

The parable of the prodigal son is a story about a father (God) who has a child that turns his back on his father and his home and throws away his inheritance (heaven) on worldly things. This is a picture of a child of God (our Father) LEAVING God and returning to the “world.” When the prodigal son “repents” ( changes his mind) and returns “home” to his father.. this parable shows the loving and forgiving nature of our God who rejoiced at his return. There is no way to MISS THIS” unless you WANT TO. Then you become like the atheist—it’s not “interpretation” or “understanding”, it’s UNBELIEF!
That's a 3 part parable. Why did you leave out the first 2 parts?
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
612
207
43
Yes, and here is a list I compiled:

Scriptures that teach the possibility of apostasy include the following:
MT 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
RM 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”
1CR 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”
GL 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
CL 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
2THS 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”
2TM 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”
HB 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
HB 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”
HB 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
JM 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
2PT 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
2PT 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”
1JN 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”
JUDE 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”
RV 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

I have not noticed whether anyone posted the handful of passages than can be viewed as disallowing apostasy, but if they did, I have a way to harmonize them with these.
There are some good ones in here that I missed. Thank you.
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
612
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Are you referring to John 10:29? I know that verse is used by ALL Calvinist for this doctrine. Jesus, in this entire chapter, has been talking about false “shepherds”—-“thieves and robbers” in verse 1, verse 8, and verse 10. He talks about “strangers” in verse 5. He talks about “hirelings” in verses 12 and 13. Have you read the context? When Jesus says “no one can snatch them out of my hand” who does the context say he is talking about? Yes, what Jesus says is absolutely true; no one- thrives and robbers, strangers, and hirelings cannot steal hus sheep but thus does not fit and us not a parallel for a person, choosing to leave God . When a Christian decides to live a life of sin and leave God, he takes himself away—no one is forcing him to leave. Jesus is not and has NOT taught that a person can’t choose to leave God anywhere in the Bible and this scripture DEFINITELY IS NOT TEACHING That. Saved person cannot be lost—it’s teaching that as long as you remain faithful to God, no one ELSE can take you away. But you can certainly remove yourself!

Did you read anywhere in that whole chapter that said the sheep cannot leave? No. In fact , in another story about His sheep , he is looking for A. LOST SHEEP that has LEFT THE FOLD. Proof that this passage does not teach what you say it teaches.
open your eyes. Search your heart. Make sure it’s HONEST.
 
Are you referring to John 10:29? I know that verse is used by ALL Calvinist for this doctrine. Jesus, in this entire chapter, has been talking about false “shepherds”—-“thieves and robbers” in verse 1, verse 8, and verse 10. He talks about “strangers” in verse 5. He talks about “hirelings” in verses 12 and 13. Have you read the context? When Jesus says “no one can snatch them out of my hand” who does the context say he is talking about? Yes, what Jesus says is absolutely true; no one- thrives and robbers, strangers, and hirelings cannot steal hus sheep but thus does not fit and us not a parallel for a person, choosing to leave God . When a Christian decides to live a life of sin and leave God, he takes himself away—no one is forcing him to leave. Jesus is not and has NOT taught that a person can’t choose to leave God anywhere in the Bible and this scripture DEFINITELY IS NOT TEACHING That. Saved person cannot be lost—it’s teaching that as long as you remain faithful to God, no one ELSE can take you away. But you can certainly remove yourself!

Did you read anywhere in that whole chapter that said the sheep cannot leave? No. In fact , in another story about His sheep , he is looking for A. LOST SHEEP that has LEFT THE FOLD. Proof that this passage does not teach what you say it teaches.
open your eyes. Search your heart. Make sure it’s HONEST.
14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
 
Are you referring to John 10:29? I know that verse is used by ALL Calvinist for this doctrine. Jesus, in this entire chapter, has been talking about false “shepherds”—-“thieves and robbers” in verse 1, verse 8, and verse 10. He talks about “strangers” in verse 5. He talks about “hirelings” in verses 12 and 13. Have you read the context? When Jesus says “no one can snatch them out of my hand” who does the context say he is talking about? Yes, what Jesus says is absolutely true; no one- thrives and robbers, strangers, and hirelings cannot steal hus sheep but thus does not fit and us not a parallel for a person, choosing to leave God . When a Christian decides to live a life of sin and leave God, he takes himself away—no one is forcing him to leave. Jesus is not and has NOT taught that a person can’t choose to leave God anywhere in the Bible and this scripture DEFINITELY IS NOT TEACHING That. Saved person cannot be lost—it’s teaching that as long as you remain faithful to God, no one ELSE can take you away. But you can certainly remove yourself!

Did you read anywhere in that whole chapter that said the sheep cannot leave? No. In fact , in another story about His sheep , he is looking for A. LOST SHEEP that has LEFT THE FOLD. Proof that this passage does not teach what you say it teaches.
open your eyes. Search your heart. Make sure it’s HONEST.
That's proof.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
735
187
43
I have not noticed whether anyone posted the handful of passages than can be viewed as disallowing apostasy, but if they did, I have a way to harmonize them with these. The passages that seem to support involuntary predestination may be harmonized with those supporting free will or perseverance as follows:

1. Romans 8:38-39 – “anything else” refers to powers other than one’s own will.

2. John 10:27-29 – being “unsnatchable” does not disallow a person from choosing to jump out of the “Father’s hand”.

3. Ephesians 1:11-14 – what is “predestined” is God’s plan to choose or elect anyone who desires to be “in him” or to satisfy GRFS. Thus, being “marked in him with a seal” does not abrogate moral free will (cf. 2PT 1:10f).

4. 1 John 2:19 – when synthesized with verse 24 must mean that those who repudiate their Faith do not eternally “belong”.

5. Psalm 135:6 – in light of “volitional verses” (such as DT 30:19 & MT 23:37) means that God “pleases” to permit limited free will.

6. Proverbs 21:1 – in order not to make God responsible for the sins cited in the rest of the chapter must mean that the “king’s heart” or will is choosing to cooperate with the Lord’s “hand” or directions.

Over...
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
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I'm talking about people who say they don't believe in God anymore. Do you believe our salvation is secure?
And are you God that you can know they were never saved? Every situation is different and unless God says they were not saved, you are being presumptuous by assuming to know. There are many, many scriptures that teach a saved person CAN lose their salvation. Too many for me to throw those all away because of an assumption.
 
And are you God that you can know they were never saved? Every situation is different and unless God says they were not saved, you are being presumptuous by assuming to know. There are many, many scriptures that teach a saved person CAN lose their salvation. Too many for me to throw those all away because of an assumption.
It says in the Bible that salvation is secure and one cannot lose salvation. I"m not God, but God reveals the truth to us in His Word by the power of the Holy Spirit.
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
612
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That's a 3 part parable. Why did you leave out the first 2 parts?
First of all, I do not know what your “3 parts” are so I cannot answer. And second, I am dealing with the part of the parable that shows a child of God can leave God, throw away his inheritance (heaven), repent, come back to God and be restored to his former state of salvation. This is a perfect picture of all of those things. This is why the scriptures use the term “FALL” or FALL AWAY”” in at least 9 scriptures; because the sinner “FALLS” from a “saved state”. To an unsaved” state. I have yet to have a “Calvinist” tell me WHERE DID THEY FALL FROM”? And “WHERE DID THEY FALL TO?”Do you want to answer that for me?
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
612
207
43
It says in the Bible that salvation is secure and one cannot lose salvation. I"m not God, but God reveals the truth to us in His Word by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Where exactly is that in the Bible? The part where one cannot lose salvation? Are you sure you are not just listening to men? Of course salvation is secure for those who are “faithful”. Revelation 2:10 teaches that. There is no scripture that says “one cannot lose salvation.” But I have a list of at least 22 scriptures that say a person CAN ABSOLUTELY Lose their salvation. They are posted somewhere on this post if you are interested.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,974
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First of all, I do not know what your “3 parts” are so I cannot answer. And second, I am dealing with the part of the parable that shows a child of God can leave God, throw away his inheritance (heaven), repent, come back to God and be restored to his former state of salvation. This is a perfect picture of all of those things. This is why the scriptures use the term “FALL” or FALL AWAY”” in at least 9 scriptures; because the sinner “FALLS” from a “saved state”. To an unsaved” state. I have yet to have a “Calvinist” tell me WHERE DID THEY FALL FROM”? And “WHERE DID THEY FALL TO?”Do you want to answer that for me?
Not at all. In Luke 15, it says Jesus tells a parable...singular. The parable begins speaking about a man who lost a sheep. Then there is a telling of a lost coin. And after that, you have the story of a man with 2 sons.
The passage clearly says He tells a parable, and not 3 parables. They are all connected.
 

Beckworth

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May 15, 2019
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What’s proof—of what? I’ve just shown that John 1029 is not talking about “sheep leaving the fold of God”. It’s talking about “thieves and robbers”, “strangers”, and “hirelings” and anyone else who would steal or harm the sheep. JOHN 10:29 IS NOT TALKING ABOUT GOD’s SHEEP LEAVING THE FOLD OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL. This is not the scripture to prove a saved person can’t fall away. Thus is a scripture to prove that no “outsider” person can STEAL THE SHEEP. WHO ARE IN GOD’s FOLD. No one can. But that does not mean the sheep cannot leave if they want to. In fact. We have a parable, TOLD BY JESUS, of a “sheep” who did just that. He left God’s fold and was “lost.” What do you think that means? You think someone stole him? Of course not. And does “lost” mean just physically in this parable? No, this parable teaches a SPIRITUAL LESSON. It’s a STORY with a SPIRITUAL MEANING. The shepherd who Jesus says is HIMSELF, LOSES ONE OF HIS SHEEP!! Did you get that?? The “sheep” which is a saved person, belonging to the good shepherd who is Jesus, is LOST