Another look at John 10.

Hebrews 10:29.
Ephesians 2:8-9.
Romans 15:13.
2 Timothy 1:7.
Do you believe you earned salvation?
Do you believe you can keep it by yourself?
The closing verses of Romans 8 goes through a list of things that cannot separate a believer from God. It concludes that nothing can separate a believer from the love of God in Christ Jesus. So how is it that you say something can?

Keep abiding (working). You're almost there!

Are you led by the Spirit of God?

Absolutely nothing can separate us from THE LOVE of God. He will always love us even if we are vile and are condemned to hell. Isn’t that what the verse is really saying? But God. says in Isaiah 59:2 that Our SINS separate us from God—not the LOVE of God but from His presence. And we all know that hell will be a separation from God. No one who is “separated from God will be allowed into heaven. Do you believe this? Then if sin separates us from God, as it did God’s chosen people, how can a child of God who lives in sin be saved?? The sacrifice of Christ won’t do it because Hebrews 10:26 says that if we sin willfully after we have RECEIVED the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, there is no more sacrifice for sins. The evidence of the possibility of a child of God losing his salvation is overwhelming in the scriptures.

Yes, I am. I hope you are

Those who believe that verses which say the one who endures to the end will be saved always assume the verses are prescriptive and not descriptive. But would such an understanding reconcile with scripture as a whole?
Prescriptive means a necessary part. It places the onus upon the individual to maintain a certain level of action in order to be fulfilled.
Descriptive means to be true of. The onus for the maintenance of action is not assigned; only that the condition is met.

Which one engenders works and which one engenders grace?

Okay. Don't prepare then. Let's see how long you last.

Because Jesus already warned us that the time we have to "endure to the end," the great tribulation, will be a time of "great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again."

When Noah built the ark according to the Lord's instruction, do you consider that works? Would God have condemned him for obeying Him on that?

On the flip side, would Noah and his family have still survived if he DIDN'T obey and build the ark?

So who should I obey? You or Jesus? I'm gonna go with Jesus and endure to the end. Don't care if you call that works because He doesn't. The Lord won't condemn me for obeying Him.


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That does not say we can lose our Salvation.

Don't keep this up. We can't and that's it.

No need to get upset because people disagree with your understanding.

While the story of Noah touches on a variety of teachings, it is foremost a picture of salvation. Noah found grace in the sight of the Lord. Then God spoke and Noah exercised faith as is evidenced through the building of the ark. His faith came from hearing the word of God. No different from anyone else throughout history.
Those saved by grace have always also been saved unto good works. So it's not surprising that Noah was given an assignment. God's people have always been workers together with God.

It's interesting that in OT stories, one always finds God entering into relationship with an individual or group, and as a result of the relationship shares with them His plans and their part in it. So, of course, obey God. Do whatever He has given you to do.

God has never commanded me to endure to the end. He has said that enduring to the end is characteristic of those He saves. He has told me that He will never leave me or forsake me. He didn't put any stipulations under which this would not be so. Not even if I am not always faithful.

Okay, if you say you're going to endure to the end as characteristic of those He saves, I'm fine with that.

If I can get people to remember and do just that when the time comes, I don't care if you call it characteristic of salvation or if someone else calls it conscious obedience. As long as you don't fall away.


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If you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law, right? You are under the control of Christ who is living through you? So it is Christ, not you, who is moving in you? It is Christ who is obeying?

He doesn't live through me as if I'm a sock puppet or something, he lives in me through his spirit which teaches me how to walk and conduct myself in ways that are pleasing to him. I control myself, which is a fruit of the spirit

And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left. Isaiah 30:21

A fruit of the what? Spirit? Who produced that?

But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, leniency, graciousness, goodness, belief, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23

Right. You are relying on the Spirit of Christ in you.

That's not what self-control means. It means I control my actions and behavior according to the word of God and the witness of the spirit

Yes, we do not accidentally misplace our salvation, but we may intentionally not endure to the end.

If you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law, right? You are under the control of Christ who is living through you? So it is Christ, not you, who is moving in you? It is Christ who is obeying?