Preparation for the tribulation.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,089
6,885
113
62
The OT ended at John the Baptist.
The old covenant was not fully over until the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.
There existed an intercovenantal period in the 1st century in which the new covenant is emerging and the old covenant is waning.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,075
1,279
113
The old covenant was not fully over until the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.
There existed an intercovenantal period in the 1st century in which the new covenant is emerging and the old covenant is waning.

No, the first covenant was over when Christ died. The transition you speak of was man's slowness in understanding that. Man still clings to that dead covenant today!
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,089
6,885
113
62
No, the first covenant was over when Christ died. The transition you speak of was man's slowness in understanding that. Man still clings to that dead covenant today!
A covenant isn't over until every part of the covenant is fulfilled. There were still sanctions for the nation Israel for not keeping the stipulations of the old covenant yet to come after the cross.
Hebrews 8:13 says it was obsolete and ready to vanish; not gone.
 
Nov 1, 2024
1,217
384
83
A covenant isn't over until every part of the covenant is fulfilled. There were still sanctions for the nation Israel for not keeping the stipulations of the old covenant yet to come after the cross.
Hebrews 8:13 says it was obsolete and ready to vanish; not gone.
I think it was over either when Peter baptized Cornelius (Acts 10), which marked the end of the 7-year period in which Christ made firm the new covenant with the house of Israel (IMO), or in 70AD when Jerusalem was destroyed.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,089
6,885
113
62
I think it was over either when Peter baptized Cornelius (Acts 10), which marked the end of the 7-year period in which Christ made firm the new covenant with the house of Israel (IMO), or in 70AD when Jerusalem was destroyed.
I choose the latter because while the new covenant did make the old obsolete, all that the old covenant called for had yet to be executed.
I believe this is reflected in the language of Hebrews 8:13.
 
Nov 1, 2024
1,217
384
83
I choose the latter because while the new covenant did make the old obsolete, all that the old covenant called for had yet to be executed.
I believe this is reflected in the language of Hebrews 8:13.
Plus Jerusalem hadn't been destroyed yet when Hebrews was written. So I lean towards the latter too
 
Aug 22, 2024
139
11
18
The old covenant was not fully over until the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.
There existed an intercovenantal period in the 1st century in which the new covenant is emerging and the old covenant is waning.
Jesus said, "the law and the prophets were until John".
The OT ended with JTB.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,075
1,279
113
A covenant isn't over until every part of the covenant is fulfilled.
Accomplished on the cross. Not to mention the covenant was broken by Israel and God long before.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,089
6,885
113
62
Accomplished on the cross. Not to mention the covenant was broken by Israel and God long before.
Sure, the covenant was continually being broken by Israel. God never broke the covenant. Curious, can a covenant end before all that it requires be fulfilled?
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,075
1,279
113
No. He brought the covenant to conclusion under the terms of the covenant.
Zechariah 11:4 Thus saith the LORD my God; Feed the flock of the slaughter;
Zechariah 11:5 Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty: and they that sell them say, Blessed be the LORD; for I am rich: and their own shepherds pity them not.
Zechariah 11:6 For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour's hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them.
Zechariah 11:7 And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock.
Zechariah 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
Zechariah 11:9 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
Zechariah 11:10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
Zechariah 11:11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.

The covenant being broken by God, but only after the people broke it first.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,089
6,885
113
62
Zechariah 11:4 Thus saith the LORD my God; Feed the flock of the slaughter;
Zechariah 11:5 Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty: and they that sell them say, Blessed be the LORD; for I am rich: and their own shepherds pity them not.
Zechariah 11:6 For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour's hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them.
Zechariah 11:7 And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock.
Zechariah 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
Zechariah 11:9 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
Zechariah 11:10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
Zechariah 11:11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.

The covenant being broken by God, but only after the people broke it first.
The term break there means to annul the covenant. To break the covenant, God would need to violate the terms of the covenant. This He is incapable of doing.
 

Randy4u2c

Active member
Sep 13, 2022
177
79
28
What is the end time tribulation? It is when Satan is cast out of heaven, Rev 12:7-9, and comes to earth claiming to be God, II Thes 2:3-4.
He will deceive many people into worshipping him and they will receive his mark of deception. Those that studied God's word know that Satan comes first, before Jesus, claiming to be him and they will not bow to him. Rather, they will be delivered up before Satan to testify against him, with the Holy Spirit speaking through them, Math 10:16-20, and expose his lies.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,075
1,279
113
The term break there means to annul the covenant. To break the covenant, God would need to violate the terms of the covenant. This He is incapable of doing.

He still broke the covenant as I have proven. I never said he violated anything.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,075
1,279
113
and expose his lies.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

G601
ἀποκαλύπτω
apokaluptō
ap-ok-al-oop'-to
From G575 and G2572; to take off the cover, that is, disclose: - reveal.
Total KJV occurrences: 26
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,089
6,885
113
62
He still broke the covenant as I have proven. I never said he violated anything.
If He didn't violate the covenant, He didn't break it. He actually fulfilled it by bringing to pass the sanctions required under the covenant. But it was Israel who broke the terms of the covenant.