the Sabbath

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ChristRoseFromTheDead

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SabbathBlessing said:
To be dead (released) to/from the law means to be dead to the penalty or condemnation of the law, not the law itself, which is holy, just and good Rom 7:12
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This is just meaningless double-talk because even though you admit here that those who are released from law are not condemned by it, you believe that if you don't follow the 4th commandment you will be condemned by it. So which is it? Completely freed from the law, or still under its authority?
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead

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vassal said:
The stones tablets with the 10 commandments written by the finger of GOD that are the covenant given to all who love and do GOD will , they still exists.. Here is the proof, from scripture. it indicates the importance of the covenant to GOD himself;

Rev 11:19 Then the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple. And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and an earthquake, and a great hailstorm.
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The ark in that verse is Christ, who is the antitype of the wooden ark.
 
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SabbathBlessing

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
This is just meaningless double-talk because even though you admit here that those who are released from law are not condemned by it, you believe that if you don't follow the 4th commandment you will be condemned by it. So which is it? Completely freed from the law, or still under its authority?
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I think you have a misunderstading.

When Paul says we are released or dead from the law- he doesn't mean the law itself that is holy, righteous and good and what matters is keeping God's commandments 1 Cor 7:19 because breaking it is sin Rom 7:7 and dishonoring God Rom 2:21-23 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 that would be a complete contradiction. He is saying if one is in Christ would be released from the penalty/condemnation of the law- the wages of sin is death this penalty still applies Rev 22:14-15 Mat 7:21-23 but if we are in Christ we would not be hostile to God's law Rom 8:7-8, we would be keeping it through our great love of Jesus John 14:15 1 John 5:3 following in His footsteps 1 Peter 2:21-22 and keeping everything Jesus kept as our example if we abide in Him Luke 4:16 John 15:10 1 John 2:6 through the power of the Holy Spirit John 14:15-18 which is given to those who obey Acts 5:32.
 
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SabbathBlessing

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SabbathBlessing said:
I think you have a misunderstading.

When Paul says we are released or dead from the law- he doesn't mean the law itself that is holy, righteous and good and what matters is keeping God's commandments 1 Cor 7:19 because breaking it is sin Rom 7:7 and dishonoring God Rom 2:21-23 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 that would be a complete contradiction. He is saying if one is in Christ would be released from the penalty/condemnation of the law- the wages of sin is death this penalty still applies Rev 22:14-15 Mat 7:21-23 but if we are in Christ we would not be hostile to God's law Rom 8:7-8, we would be keeping it through our great love of Jesus John 14:15 1 John 5:3 following in His footsteps 1 Peter 2:21-22 and keeping everything Jesus kept as our example if we abide in Him Luke 4:16 John 15:10 1 John 2:6 through the power of the Holy Spirit John 14:15-18 which is given to those who obey Acts 5:32.
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To add..

If we are in Christ obeying Him through His power everyone one of His commandments would be kept, just as He kept them John 15:10 and submitting ourselves to Christ we are released from the condemnation of the law. There is only two choices- either we are with Christ or by default against Him. Those who do not subject themselves to God's law, scripture says they are an enmity against God. Rom 8:7-8. Choose Christ- follow the example He left, obey Him not to be saved but because we love Him so much and trust what He asks of us, is for our own good.
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead

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SabbathBlessing said:
I think you have a misunderstading.

When Paul says we are released or dead from the law- he doesn't mean the law itself that is holy, righteous and good and what matters is keeping God's commandments 1 Cor 7:19 because breaking it is sin Rom 7:7 and dishonoring God Rom 2:21-23 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 that would be a complete contradiction. He is saying if one is in Christ would be released from the penalty/condemnation of the law- the wages of sin is death this penalty still applies Rev 22:14-15 Mat 7:21-23 but if we are in Christ we would not be hostile to God's law Rom 8:7-8, we would be keeping it through our great love of Jesus John 14:15 1 John 5:3 following in His footsteps 1 Peter 2:21-22 and keeping everything Jesus kept as our example if we abide in Him Luke 4:16 John 15:10 1 John 2:6 through the power of the Holy Spirit John 14:15-18 which is given to those who obey Acts 5:32.
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Oh my goodness what a bunch of gobbledygook. I can't even follow this.
 
TMS

TMS

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
This is just meaningless double-talk because even though you admit here that those who are released from law are not condemned by it, you believe that if you don't follow the 4th commandment you will be condemned by it. So which is it? Completely freed from the law, or still under its authority?
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What enables us to be free from sin. ?
Sin is the transgression of the law
What enables us to be free from the guilt and penalty of the law?????
Christ
By repentance. And Through faith.

If there is no law
What are you repenting of?

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The penalty is taken away by the blood of Jesus and we are made free.

But it is clear that the law that points out sin is still valid and people are still guilty of sin today.

That guilt is taken by grace through faith for those that believe.

That's easy to underdtand isn't it?

Sin is lawlessness = death
Jesus frees us from death = freed from the penalty of lawlessness.
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead

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TMS said:
If there is no law
What are you repenting of?
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Sin against God. I already showed you above that there is no 'thou shalt not be partial' in the 10 commandments, but it is sin. How do we know? By the word of God and the witness of the spirit
 
TMS

TMS

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
This is just meaningless double-talk because even though you admit here that those who are released from law are not condemned by it, you believe that if you don't follow the 4th commandment you will be condemned by it. So which is it? Completely freed from the law, or still under its authority?
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If I am lawless and murder = sin and death
The grace of God is able to free me by faith. No death and guilt because of the love of Jesus.

If I dont keep the sabbath holy = guilt and need to repent = need to be freed from death.

We are all sinners so we are all condemned to death and need repentance...

But we are told to keep getting up and keep moving forward.

Pro 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

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Aaron56 said:
Did you mean “Who defines sin?”
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The significance is this: without the Holy Spirit you‘ll need everything about God written down. Because God loved the Jews and wanted to preserve their lives He gave them a simple Law to understand. But to think that the record given from Sinai is a complete treatise on the nature of God and His righteousness is, at best, a childish imagination.

In Christ we are made part of the Beloved of God; the same Beloved Who was with God in the beginning: the Son of Righteousness.
 
TMS

TMS

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Aaron56 said:
The significance is this: without the Holy Spirit you‘ll need everything about God written down. Because God loved the Jews and wanted to preserve their lives He gave them a simple Law to understand. But to think that the record given from Sinai is a complete treatise on the nature of God and His righteousness is, at best, a childish imagination.

In Christ we are made part of the Beloved of God; the same Beloved Who was with God in the beginning: the Son of Righteousness.
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God loves us no less today.
And if God gave Israel the simple law why can't He let us read it too.
Jesus is the perfect illustration of God's character and love. But that does not mean all the other illustrations are made void.
The stories in the OT are a testimony of God's character and love.
The law also reveals God's character and love.

Jesus does not make the law void..

Jesus perfectly kept it and tells us to obey it too.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
 
TMS

TMS

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Sin against God. I already showed you above that there is no 'thou shalt not be partial' in the 10 commandments, but it is sin. How do we know? By the word of God and the witness of the spirit
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When it comes to knowing God it is about spending time with Him.
Knowing sin is about studying the word of God and understanding the character and standards or principles outlined in the word.

Some things are harder to define but through the word and by the guiding of the Holy Spirit we can know.

The law is a good place to start.

Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
When I look at myself and ask God to help me see, ,, am I making money or work or my phone a god..
See how the word is a spiritual principle that the Holy Spirit can convict me with.

2Ti 3:15-17
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

All scripture
No one is saying the 10 commandments makes other scriptures void.
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead

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TMS said:
When it comes to knowing God it is about spending time with Him.
Knowing sin is about studying the word of God and understanding the character and standards or principles outlined in the word.
Some things are harder to define but through the word and by the guiding of the Holy Spirit we can know.
The law is a good place to start.
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I agree with everything you said
 
TMS

TMS

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Aaron56 said:
In Christ we are made part of the Beloved of God; the same Beloved Who was with God in the beginning: the Son of Righteousness
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But be careful
Many believe they are in Christ today but are not.

Mat 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

"Ye that work iniquity"

The word iniquity =
Original: ἀνομία
Transliteration: anomia
Thayer Definition:
the condition of without law
because ignorant of it
because of violating it
contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Strong's Definition: From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness: - iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

Are you saying to everyone don't worry about the law? Don't worry about keeping the law?
 
TMS

TMS

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Faith and works are not to be seperated...

Faith that has no works is like believing and no showing it in any way, not acting on those beliefs.
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
And works that are done without faith are also a bad thing. To try and save yourself and do it by works alone you will end up failing. Works can not save us.

So faith and works should not be seperated.
They are not apposed to each other.

Righteousness by faith.

Right actions and works by faith
Keeping the law by faith.

People are not opposed to righteousness by faith until they find have to give something up.
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead

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TMS said:
Keeping the law by faith.
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The law is not kept by faith. The righteous work of the law is fulfilled in those who follow the holy spirit by faith

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Galatians 3:11-12​
​
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4​
 
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Gideon300

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vassal said:
The stones tablets with the 10 commandments written by the finger of GOD that are the covenant given to all who love and do GOD will , they still exists.. Here is the proof, from scripture. it indicates the importance of the covenant to GOD himself;

Rev 11:19 Then the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple. And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and an earthquake, and a great hailstorm.

if as you claim, you follow Christ and obey him, you would also follow the commandments as they are written, given . Jesus was teaching them during his ministry and he magnified the commandments. He never abolished or diminished them as some think.
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You should study the New Testament on the purpose and place of the Law. You will find that you are living in the shadows of a covenant that is obsolete. That's your choice. It's not mine. I prefer to walk in the Light and in the new. If all we had to do was obey a set of rules, Jesus would not have instituted the New Covenant. The old would have done. He did, because the old is unable to save anyone. All it does is condemn. There is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. You should try living by grace. You might like it.
 
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Pasifika

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TMS said:
Love is not a burden.

When you really love someone it is not a burden to obey them.
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Agape Love is Not found in human But only from God. It's a different love. It's given as a gift to whoever God chooses.
 
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Gideon300

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SabbathBlessing said:
A Christian is a follower of Christ.

Christ said if you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

The Sabbath is a commandment, just like thou shalt not murder and not to worship other gods. God called this unit of Ten Exo 34:28 "My commandments" Exo 20:6

God's law is a reflection of His holy character which we are to conform to.

Jesus kept the Sabbath and was in the synagogues (church) as His custom readings God's Word Luke 4:16-17

The apostles were followers of Christ and also followed in His footsteps keeping every Sabbath also preaching and reading God's Word in the synagogues (church). Acts 15:21 13:42-44, 18:4 etc.

Jesus said: John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 John 2: 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Faith is not a feeling, we are told our hearts are deceptive above all Jer 17:9

Faith comes from hearing the Word of God Romans 10:17 and the NT Christians all kept the Sabbath, including Jesus, which we need the same faith He had.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Follow Jesus, He only leads us on the narrow path back to reconciliation Rev 22:14
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I obey God's commands. I've said before that the Christian life is a life of obedience and faith. Those who have no faith will not obey. However, I do not live according to a set of rules. I live by the leading of the Holy Spirit within me. The 10 commandments have done their job. I came to Christ. He is my very life. Jesus came that we might have abundant life. Lord Jesus does not demand that I walk less than a mile to church, cook nothing from Friday night until Saturday, not do anything that raises a sweat etc. That's the Law. If I lived by the law as you do, I'd be scared to get out of bed in case I made a mistake.
 
TMS

TMS

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
The law is not kept by faith. The righteous work of the law is fulfilled in those who follow the holy spirit by faith

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Galatians 3:11-12​
​
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4​
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Righteousness = is the quality of being right in the eyes of God, including character (nature), conscience (attitude), conduct (action), and command (word). Righteousness is, therefore, based upon God's standard because He is the ultimate Lawgiver (Isaiah 33:22)

Imputed righteousness refers to the righteousness of Christ being credited to the believer’s account. To impute is to ascribe something to someone else.

Imparted righteousness is the result of the transformative work that occurs within believers as we are progressively made righteous through the power of the Holy Spirit.

The righteousness by which we are justified is imputed; the righteousness by which we are sanctified is imparted. The first is our title to heaven; the second is our fitness for heaven.
 
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