the Sabbath

Where have Ellen's followers gone to?

Inquisitor, what denomination are you?

I don't subscribe to any denomination.

Sorry Cameron , there, you clearly contradict GOD himself, he said the contrary , that the sabbath was to be observed on a particular day just not any day. this Law is a test of your faith in Him and your love for God, please do not fail this.

we do not need to follow it strictly like the pharisees did but rather like Jesus showed us..
Peace

Paul was a man , God is all, please put your priorities in the right order.

Funny man.

Jesus was under the old covenant. He showed how to live under that covenant. He spoke of a new covenant and introduced what was coming, but it wasn't until after His resurrection that the Spirit was poured out, gifts were given abundantly, and the writers of the epistles were given inspiration to write about how those who are partakers of the divine nature are to live. If you stop at Jesus example and words, your doctrine, and, consequently, your practice is incomplete.
The Sabbath itself was a picture of the rest we have in Christ. Frankly, your interest in keeping the Sabbath on a particular day when you don't even do what God asked to be done on the Sabbath amazes me. And I have yet to have anyone explain to me all that is required by God in scripture to fulfill the Sabbath requirements. Perhaps you can tell me everything that is required to keep the Sabbath commandment. If not, how do you know you have kept it?
So by recognizing what the Sabbath is...rest, not a day...and by recognizing that that rest is offered in the life and death of Christ, and believing into Him, I have reconciliation with God, and keep and celebrate the Sabbath every time I acknowledge and rejoice in Christ.

Paul's words are God's words if they are in scripture. The Holy Spirit is the author of scripture. No portion of scripture is more authoritative than any other.

You can't reason, they keep their own sabbath. They claim the Sabbath was altered into being Jesus, but Jesus rebuked this saying He is Lord of the Sabbath, the Creator Exo 20:11 not the creation, day or commandment. He said not a jot or tittle can pass from His law, heaven would pass before something as small as a dot of an i or cross of a t would pass, yet alone an entire commandment.

Jesus was the Mediator of the New Covenant, not the old as people teach, otherwise we can just strike out much of the gospels because if we are to abide in Him, we are follow Him 1 John 2:6 in His footsteps 1 Peter 2:21-22. He is the way, through no one else. He taught us how to live and His covenant was ratified by His blood, nothing could be added to His covenant after His death. He has all authority.

Jesus gives the best advice in these situations

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”

13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

So, people no longer sin? There were animal sacrifices in the OT including in Numbers 28:9 - And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— 10 this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Also, see (2 Chronicles 2:4; 31:3; Nehemiah 10:33; Ezekiel 46:4; 12).

Now although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

The word "sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.

This was addressed to the Israelites. Moses gives the reason the sabbath was given to the nation of Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought YOU out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore, the Lord your God has commanded YOU to observe the Sabbath day.” (Deuteronomy 5:15)

Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: “The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.” (Exodus 31:16-17)

Animal sacrifices are no longer required because Jesus is the Lamb of God and his sacrifice was the final, perfect offering for sins. Jesus is also our "sabbatismos" rest (Hebrews 4:9) in contrast with keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.

Jesus was a Jew born under the law (Galatians 4:4) so of course he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day. Now keep reading: 18 - “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed; 19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”
20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” Now look at the Jews reaction in (vs 28-29).

Why would there be a need for further sacrifices when Jesus was the final, perfect sacrifice for sins?

Do you worship in a synagogue today on the sabbath with Jews and Greeks who were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes? Where else would these people be gathering during that time? Once again, Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship.

The Greeks were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes. They practiced the law of Moses and kept the sabbath. The only Greeks that were in the synagogue would be these proselytes. These Greeks were not yet Christians. Acts 13:43 - "Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God."

Acts 14:1 - "In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks."

Acts 17:4 - "And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.

Acts 18:4 - "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks." Why did you not bold trying to persuade Jews and Greeks in Acts 18:4?

I'm not sure why you are so obsessed with the 10 commandments when you have failed to flawlessly obey them (Romans 3:23) which makes them a ministry of death for you. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9) Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made the old covenant obsolete to legally put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), and the apostle Paul says that by bearing one another's burdens, we fulfill "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) So, love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10) and out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the new covenant, written in our heart, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9 10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

The moral aspect of the law is written on our hearts. Jesus Christ is our "sabbatismos" rest (Hebrews 4:9) "in contrast with keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law" and the law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the letter of the law. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter in 2 Corinthians 3:6-9.

You seem to be missing what our disagreement is about. This seems to be a common practice on this forum for some reason.

I never stated there were not animal sacrifices in the OT for sins, I said they were if you read my posts. People sinned daily, so they made animal sacrifices daily, including the Sabbath.

The disagreement was that you still have not addressed, is when the sacrifices ended in the New Testament, the Sabbath commandment continued without them because as you said. Jesus became our Sacrificial Lamb and no more sacrifices needed. The Sabbath was never connected to animal sacrifices, it way always about physical rest from our works and labors and keeping the Sabbath day holy Exo 20:8-11 focusing out thoughts and attention on God Isa 58:13

So the question, that you never answered, where was animal sacrifices on the Sabbath in the NT, you claimed they are eternally connected, but that does not reconcile with the scriptures. The weekly Sabbath started at Creation, when God made everything according to His perfect plan. He codified it written by His own finger, spoken by His own voice and nothing to do with animal sacrifices Exp 20:8-11

You act like the Sabbath didn't exist for some reason in the NT, but it was kept faithfully by Jesus, His close followers and the apostles decades after the Cross.

God only gave a name and numbered one day- the seventh day that He called the Sabbath. He claimed it in His own Words as My holy day, the holy day of the Lord thy God. No where does it say the Sabbath commandment ended at the cross. No where does it say Jesus is our Sabbath, Jesus in His own Words said He is Lord of the Sabbath, the Creator not the creation, day, commandment and its really a very sad teaching.

Here let me add the 4th commandment back into your list of an unbiblical number of 9.

Did the Sabbath end at the Cross?

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

Hebrews 4:9 that you used literally translates into Sabbath-keeping

Luke 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

sabbatismos: Sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Pronunciation: sab-bat-is-mos'
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: Sabbath rest
Meaning: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

The Sabbath rest is according to the commandment Luke 23:56 the commandment says the Sabbath is the seventh day.


Jesus in His own Words said the Sabbath would not end at the Cross- do you not believe Jesus? How do we believe in Jesus but not what He taught, or followed? I think this is going to be pivotal on Judgement Day

Mat 24: 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Jesus is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem which happened about 40 years after His death. He had a faithful who was keeping the Sabbath, just like this is a dual prophecy until His Second Coming, because God's people, keep God's commandments- His version, not mans. Like who has more Authority than God? No one.


The Sabbath was kept decades after the Cross by His faithful followers, so you are not being honest with the scriputres.

Sad, you teach to forget the one commandment God said Remember, that is holy and blessed by God, that no man can reverse Num 23:20 and Hod numbered the Ten Commandments personally by design, because He knew man for forget the one commandment He said not to and reduce His Ten Commandments to an unbiblical number.

I guess we will find out soon enough how it all works out. If God really meant what He said. I believe He did. Jesus told us quoting from the Old Testament to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Mat 4:4 but we have free will.

Deuteronomy 4:2-“You shall not ADD to the word which I command you, nor take away from it.”

Deuteronomy 12:32-“whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not ADD to it or take away from it.”

Proverbs 30:5-“Every word of God is pure…(6) do not ADD to His words, lest He rebuke you and you be found a liar.”

Revelation 22:18-“To everyone who hears the words of this book: If anyone ADDS to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone TAKES AWAY from the words of the book,,,God shall take away his part from the book of life…”

The word “alone” is not in Romans 3:24-28. How is it you are not afraid to “add” to God’s words? Everyone knows that there is a huge difference between being saved by faith, which is taught in the Bible, and being saved by faith “ALONE”, which is not only NOT TAUGHT IN THE BIBLE but is condemned in James 2:24. Adding that one word changes what God has said and the meaning of what God has said. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we are saved by FAITH “ALONE”.

You do realize that “alone” means “all by itself”, nothing else, only that one thing. You are trying to twist the scriptures to make it INCLUDE works so you can get around James 2:24, but that cannot work and still mean “alone”. If works are necessary to prove your faith, then it cannot, by definition of the word, mean “alone.” You cannot have “salvation” by faith all by itself—nothing else, alone, and still need works. You are either saved by faith alone—without the necessity of any works or you are not. It is impossible for it to be both ways. You want your cake and want to eat it too. You can deceive yourself by telling yourself and others that it is true but it is not true and no matter how much you say it, it will never be true. James 2:24 condemns “salvation by faith alone.”

The works talked about in James 2 are not works done as “evidence” of our faith as you have said, they are works done to SAVE THE SOUL. see verse 14. The question is asked “If a man has faith, but no works, can faith save him?” God is talking about “salvation” not “evidence” OF salvation. These works are NECESSARY for salvation of his soul. If anything else is necessary for salvation other than faith, then it is just common sense that faith alone or only by itself CANNOT save you. Which is what he very clearly says in verse 24. All of the verses from 14-24 are teaching one thing—faith must have works or it is dead (verses 17,20, 26). Verse 22 is the answer and the true teaching about “faith and works.” God says that FAITH AND WORKS GO TOGETHER. One is just as important as the other in God’s sight. In verse 24, God says we are JUSTIFIED-that means SAVED—by works!! He did not say WORKS ALONE! HE said by works—he has already said it takes BOTH works AND faith for salvation. That’s why He is so specific in verse 24–NOT BY FAITH ONLY!

3 times God says “faith without works is dead.” Something that God says is necessary besides, or in addition to faith, means that you cannot be saved by faith ALONE ( all by itself).

Bull.

Here's the scripture for reference:

"If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

You still have blinders on per this scripture:

"For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."

Here's how to understand "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath" in light of the Spirit: When the Lord of the Sabbath lives in you (not possible until after the resurrection of Christ) then your very nature is Sabbath Rest.

Had the Pharisees understood this, whom Jesus addressed, they would not have criticized Jesus and the disciples.

The issue with the Pharisees is that they wanted to maintain power of the people. Jesus had disrupted their plan.

This has been the issue with all cults and religions: they want power over the people. So, for example, a religion will condemn anyone NOT adhering to their view. The Roman church did this first, that's why all the jokes have Peter at the gate of heaven, you can't get in without the pope's consent.

The Seventh Day Anarchists do this now, too. "You will be judged harshly by not obeying the law of Moses" and "The 10 Commandments are our guide in the Christian life". Such tenets are important to people who want to preserve their power over the people.

The truth is, we are reconciled to God in Christ. The Holy Spirit now leads everyone who is reconciled. Now, there is no schism between God and His sons in the Spirit. Our very being is "I Am" and God ensures that, by His Spirit, we are changed from glory to glory; matured into the Head Who is Christ.

You focus on Sabbath like the Jews focused on the letter of the law (they are the same thing). Because of this self-imposed blindness you cannot hear the Spirit. Indeed, by your doctrine, the Spirit isn't important at all: "just read what is written." If what is written is not processed through the wisdom from above then it will be interpreted as another law of Sinai to follow, and imprisonment will follow quickly behind.

Seventh Day lies are nothing new to believers. Paul warned the Galatians about such people back in the day. The enemy is not creative: he just spins old yarn into the same traps.

Thank God that the gates of Hell (gates keep people locked inside) cannot prevail against the Truth of Christ!

Agreed!

There is a stark contrast between the letter and the Spirit: one kills the other brings new life.

This difference is lost on a lot of church leadership: because of the congregation model they've adopted whatever message keeps people in the seats is the preferred one. What they miss is that within the whole of the New Testament the focus is on relationships. True love motivated the epistles. Relationships in Christ birthed the writings out of obligation to the Lord not to a building plan or tithes.

In the church today, it's acceptable for your pastor to not know you personally (or at all). Then, if you ask "Who watches over your soul" you'll hear crickets. The congregation model is a bag of car parts. The model Jesus and apostles modeled is a fulling functioning automobile where each part is connected to another.

This is all sorts of twisted out of context scripture.

Jesus said He was Lord of the Sabbath because He is the Creator of it, when the Pharisees accused His apostles for breaking the Sabbath. You can read about it in Matthew 12. Who better to know how to keep the Sabbath than our Creator.

The issue of the Pharisees according to Jesus, is they wanted to keep their own rules instead of obeying God's commandments, the way God said. They too had their own sabbath adding subtracting from God's Sabbath essentially making themselves their own god, and kept their many traditions overing obeying what God commanded this is what Jesus condemned, not obeying God the way God said. What a sad, sad teaching and sounds like the same deception we heard in the garden, doing the opposite of what God said. Teaching the opposite of what Jesus taught and lived.

Mat 15:1 15 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”

3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”

13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

The path of breaking God's commandments is the path that leads one into a ditch. Jesus tells us to take the narrow path- to follow Him- He kept the Sabbath and if we abide in His love we will also keep His commandments John 15:10 following in His footsteps. 1 John 2:6 instead of the popular teachings of man.

No. You're making it fit our religion again: Jesus kept the law at Sinai because He was under the law at Sinai. We are reconciled to God by the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Different law, different priests, different administration, different outcome.

You can tell that to Jesus, because He is the one who said it, not me. Mat 15 more people need to take to heart instead of listening to words that sound pleasing to the ears we were warned about that goes against what God said.

Its the same struggle from the beginning, do we obey God the way He said, or listen to the other voice in the garden, saying the opposite of what God said.

Jesus kept God's law because He was under the penalty of the law, just as we are but He was without sin. He died to take the penalty of death that we deserved but lived to be our example to follow John 15:10 1 John 2"6 , following in His footsteps. 1 Peter 2:21-22. Its when we take our eyes off Christ, everything falls apart.

I keep every day holy. You keep 1 day out of 7. And I'm the one taking the easy route.

Seems that religion even corrupts math.

No one keeps the Sabbath 24/7. God knows we need to do works and labors to survive.

This is why He commanded us the following.

God wrote, God spoke, no Greater Authority than He, at least for me.

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

To think our reasonings are better than God's reasoning is a bad idea that we know better than He. It essentially is making one their own god

You still don't understand.

Therefore the disciples said to one another, “Has anyone brought Him anything to eat?”
Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest! And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.”

And then:

There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also CEASED FROM HIS OWN WORKS as God did from His.

A man in Christ has no work of his own. He goes where he is led by the Spirit. This is the Sabbath life in Christ.