Understanding God’s election

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cv5

cv5

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Rufus said:
No man chooses to enter into a covenant with God, since all the covenants were instituted by God and the terms and not man! It is strictly by God's doing that anyone us is in Christ Jesus (1Cor 1:30). The text doesn't say that anyone is in Christ Jesus due to men willfully teaming up with God to save them. Read the terms of the unconditional, unilateral New Covenant some day.
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Sounds like the dungeon is being run by the inmates.
And they are looking for roommates.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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cv5 said:
God went to the pre-flood world and it suffered DEVASTATING JUDGEMENT.
God went to Sodom and it suffered DEVASTATING JUDGEMENT.
God went to Canaan and it suffered DEVASTATING JUDGEMENT.
God went to Chorazin and Bethsaida and they suffered DEVASTATING JUDGEMENT.

And no doubt in all of these cases SALVATION-DELIVERANCE was FREELY available.
But only Noah, Lot, Rahab and the Gibeonites and some of Israel availed themselves of that benefit.

Why is this so? What's going on here?
Next question: how will the Calvinites distort all of this into convoluted dizzy gnostic nuttery?
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All the people God saves He initiates and then maintains relationship.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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GWH said:
And others consider receiving by faith a mere non-meritorious cooperation with God's will as expressed in DT 30:19 for example.
No one is forced to be blessed against their will per MT 23:37, for exhample.
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And no one ever is. When God comes to an individual and opens their understanding, the glories of God and His so great salvation are always desired.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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HeIsHere said:
do you not see there is a major gulf between ability and inability (born that way).
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Yes. All require a Spiritual rebirth, and this is determined by God's mercy
and not man's effort or will, explicitly stated in Scripture yet denied by many.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Genez said:
As punishment, they have been denied being able to physically materialize...
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There is not one case in Scripture where an angel was allowed to manifest as a human being beyond the express will of God.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Cameron143 said:
And no one ever is. When God comes to an individual and opens their understanding,
the glories of God and His so great salvation are always desired.
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I wonder why this is so very difficult for people to grasp.

Instead it is largely grossly misrepresented by others who falsely claim we
believe man is a robot and has no responsibility or choice in the matter.

And other ridiculous and reprehensible things.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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cv5 said:
How exactly does that work with a bi-lateral Marriage covenant that requires full disclosure and permission?

It doesn't. Its just more crazy talk, vacuous, nonsensical and irrelevant.
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When God came to you and opened your understanding of Christ and His so great salvation, did your heart not burn within you? Were you not convinced of the terribleness of your sin and sorrowful over it? Did you not cry out for forgiveness and earnestly seek forgiveness and reconciliation?

You have God to thank for all of that. But none of that occurred until God sought you out.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Inquisitor said:
Even worse, after 30 years of being a Christian and suffering persecution.

The thought occurs that perhaps I was never predestined for salvation.

Even though I confessed Jesus and believed in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Alas, the biblical criteria is met but ultimately did God choose me?

I wonder how many Calvinists have hit that speed bump.

Have I been eternally chosen or was I acting like a Christian my whole life?

Under Calvinism there is no test for the Christian faith because no one knows.
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The test is do you know God? If you do, you possess eternal life.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Cameron143 said:
When God came to you and opened your understanding of Christ and His so great salvation, did your heart not burn within you? Were you not convinced of the terribleness of your sin and sorrowful over it? Did you not cry out for forgiveness and earnestly seek forgiveness and reconciliation?

You have God to thank for all of that. But none of that occurred until God sought you out.
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Indeed... when God's love and forgiveness were revealed to me, I knew for certain I was unworthy of it.
I was simply seeking more understanding of Who Jesus was, during Passover week, many many years ago,
quite a few years before I became a Christian. His love and forgiveness were revealed to me... I did not
have to ask for them. They were given, and I wept at the depth and beauty of those gifts.
 
cv5

cv5

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Cameron143 said:
When God came to you and opened your understanding of Christ and His so great salvation, did your heart not burn within you? Were you not convinced of the terribleness of your sin and sorrowful over it? Did you not cry out for forgiveness and earnestly seek forgiveness and reconciliation?

You have God to thank for all of that. But none of that occurred until God sought you out.
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God is seeking ALL of His lost sheep. All the time.

And some COME when called and some REFUSE. Yet ALL are informed.

I found it amusing that one of your Calvinite buddies tried to shoehorn Rahab and the Gibeonites into the Calvinite mold.

Total flail. Total fail.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Magenta said:
Indeed... when God's love and forgiveness were revealed to me, I knew for certain I was unworthy of it.
I was simply seeking more understanding of Who Jesus was, during Passover week, many many years ago,
quite a few years before I became a Christian. His love and forgiveness were revealed to me... I did not
have to ask for them. They were given, and I wept at the depth and beauty of those gifts.
Click to expand...
This in some way is the experience of all who are genuinely saved. Those who simply give mental assent and make a decision for the Lord have had their mind engaged and probably their emotions raised, but this is not salvation. Most good preachers can cause this affect, and must guard against making an emotional appeal, and allow for the Spirit to effectually work. That so little is made of the spiritual work of God probably means many are relying more on what they have done without ever experiencing genuine spiritual transformation.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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cv5 said:
God is seeking ALL of His lost sheep. All the time.

And some COME when called and some REFUSE. Yet ALL are informed.

I found it amusing that one of your Calvinite buddies tried to shoehorn Rahab and the Gibeonites into the Calvinite mold.

Total flail. Total fail.
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God only seeks His sheep. All His sheep, Jesus said, hear His voice and follow Him.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Cameron143 said:
This in some way is the experience of all who are genuinely saved. Those who simply give mental assent and make a decision for the Lord have had their mind engaged and probably their emotions raised, but this is not salvation. Most good preachers can cause this affect, and must guard against making an emotional appeal, and allow for the Spirit to effectually work. That so little is made of the spiritual work of God probably means many are relying more on what they have done without ever experiencing genuine spiritual transformation.
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It is a complex issue to be sure, yet the simplicity found in Christ is not to be overlooked either.
One must think some believe man has evolved to some higher plane of existence that exceeds
by far human nature as seen in Noah's day and age. It is the bent of new age thinking, after all.
 
I

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rogerg said:
Correct, and therefore, it is not by anything that we may do, including by/from our belief - it is a gift given solely by/through Christ - all by Him - our belief comes from that.
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Correct, faith is a gift as well as everything else.

We boast in Jesus Christ only.

Did Christ die for all or some?
 
cv5

cv5

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Rufus said:
No man chooses to enter into a covenant with God, since all the covenants were instituted by God and the terms and not man! It is strictly by God's doing that anyone us is in Christ Jesus (1Cor 1:30). The text doesn't say that anyone is in Christ Jesus due to men willfully teaming up with God to save them. Read the terms of the unconditional, unilateral New Covenant some day.
Click to expand...
Get a clue buddy.

It was RAHAB who TOOK THE INITIATIVE and asked for a covenant. And she also was a party to the negotiations.

And it was the GIBEONITES who TOOK THE INITIATIVE and asked for a covenant. And they also were party to the negotiations.

Therefore what you so Calvinitistically distort is utterly unbiblical nonsense meant to lure the hapless and ignorant into your Calvinite dungeon.
 
I

Inquisitor

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Magenta said:
It is a complex issue to be sure, yet the simplicity found in Christ is not to be overlooked either.
One must think some believe man has evolved to some higher plane of existence that exceeds
by far human nature as seen in Noah's day and age. It is the bent of new age thinking, after all.
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A good reply.

It is a very complex issue and one that we do not understand.

Guard that simplicity of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Romans 10:13
for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
 
R

rogerg

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Inquisitor said:
Romans 10:13
for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
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So, you believe those who call upon the name of the Lord won't become saved until some future time?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Inquisitor said:
Christ is calling Gentile sheep and not Jewish sheep.

Israel has been grafted out.

Some clarification is necessary.
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There are Jewish people being saved today...just not in the numbers that will be saved at some future time.
 
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