Understanding God’s election

Only 1 side is deliberately misrepresenting.

There is much misunderstanding of others. That's normal. People are at different levels of knowledge, and possess bias. That's not what I'm referring to. I'm talking about those who understand exactly what you are saying and purposefully distort it.

Thank you again Zeke but I find it very odd that you're not getting that from anyone here because free will... you know, that false doctrine of free will, is at the heart of everything they argue to deny everything Scripture says about the natural man. And there are quite a few here doing it so I'm not sure how you can miss it.

Again, you are missing the IN CHRIST part.

By way of analogy, consider Noah's ark. The wickedness of men was great in those days, and God, in his foreknowledge, was not caught unaware of the same. Instead, he foreknew, from before the foundation of the world, that it would eventually be so. At that time, God's Spirit was not only striving with men, but we also know that Noah was a preacher of righteousness. In other words, God was actively seeking, via his Spirit and the preaching of righteousness, to save everybody. Furthermore, God provided a "chosen" or "elected" means of escape, which he foreknew from before the foundation of the world, or he chose Noah's Ark. In his foreknowledge, he knew who would favorably respond to the promptings of his Spirit and the preaching of righteousness, and he also foreknew who would unfavorably reject the same, but he still genuinely strove with everybody. Those who got on the Ark did so of their own freewill choices, and those who did not board the Ark chose not to of their own freewill choices. With these things in mind, we could rightfully say that God foreknew who was going to be found "in the Ark" before the foundation of the world, and, similarly, God foreknew who was going to be found IN CHRIST before the foundation of the world. This does not mean that God chose who was going to be in either the Ark or Christ, but simply that he foreknew who would be.

I honestly cannot believe that we even have to have such a discussion. Can I tell you, plainly, what this whole discussion reminds me of?

Before I got saved, I spent some time at the racetrack. One night, a man placed a $100 bill on the floor with a hidden invisible wire attached to it. He then stood there for about an hour while sadistically and gleefully watching people bend over hastily to grab the $100 dollar bill, only to have it snatched away from their grasp at the last second. I actually saw one man go for it with such fervor that he did a somersault on his head before crashing his body onto the floor as the $100 bill was snatched away from his outreaching grasp at the last second.

This is Calvin's "god."

He puts the gift of salvation before certain unsaved people via the preaching of the gospel, and then he sadistically and gleefully pulls it away from their grasp because they never really had a chance to lay hold of it. Calvin's "god" is not the God of the Bible, and he is certainly not my "god." I REPUDIATE Calvin's "god" with every fiber of my being.

And oh brother how the Calvintes assiduously tip-toe around that land mine!
Right @Cameron143 ?
I mean thats ground zero right?

No your argument does not overcome the ultimate logical conclusion of regeneration (God given only to some) that some have been predestined to not be regenerated by God's sovereign choice.

You call it wooing, I call it God drawing us with loving kindness.

What about those who believe it is worthy of mocking and scoffing to believe that people have personal experience with God? That God actually keeps His promise to reveal Himself to those who diligently seek Him garners derision from some here. They claim personal revelation is not necessary. Even unfair of God. How do we know God if not personally?

Do word salads much? What does that even mean...that grace "guarantees freedom to believe"? So God gives the gift of faith to believers after they believe? Also, Jesus said all that the Father gives to him WILL COME to Him! He didn't say that God makes it merely possible for them to come -- but that they will [in fact] come!

Only 1 side is deliberately misrepresenting.

There is much misunderstanding of others. That's normal. People are at different levels of knowledge, and possess bias. That's not what I'm referring to. I'm talking about those who understand exactly what you are saying and purposefully distort it.

You asked me a question earlier which I was about to answer, and then I got bombarded with text messages on my phone, I got a phone call, and I also got bombarded with notifications from this thread. Anyhow, I forgot what the question was, and I don't really feel like digging to find it. If you know what it was, then please provide me a link to it. Thank you.

P.S.

I think that you asked me to explain something, but it has slipped my mind. I am busy with some other things at the moment, so nobody needs to pray for me to be healed of dementia...lol.

In the meantime, do you have any problem with the fact that God in OT times almost exclusively made salvation available to Israel?

The post you quoted was not referring to you. We have different views, but you haven't misunderstood or misrepresented my positions.
And people get busy and posts are missed. Not a big deal.

God not acting is different from God decreeing and acting. Show me from scripture what you are saying or admit it is simply your opinion.

All the Father gives to Him will come to Him?

YES!

The Father only gives to the Son those whom the Father was able to draw completion to Himself!
But the Father is invisible and can not be perceived by men in a concrete way. It's a subconscious state of being.
So how does the Father reveal himself to those He knows want Him?

Voilà! His Son! Whom they can see and touch and hear!

To see Jesus is to see the Father in human terms! John 14:9

“Only 1 side is deliberately misrepresenting.”

i bet you would say it’s the other side , and they might say it’s your side doing it which …I think they have lol made that claim about your side at this point . Who’s the qualified judge among your two factions ?

seems like if we constantly argue and claim others are false we’re just not going to ever have a benefit of discussion . In this zone of scripture warfare . Maybe about fishing I have some stories lol but we could never benefit from discussing the Bible like that in such a way lol

“There is much misunderstanding of others. That's normal. People are at different levels of knowledge, and possess bias. That's not what I'm referring to. “

Yes I agree I think this is the majority of the issue and then when we don’t understand we add thoughts to respond to what we misunderstood…..because we didn’t get it correctly as “exactly what they meant by it “ and then the scripture fight is on haha there’s just …..no way man . Charlie is too many

someone launches a “ saved by grace “ verse to open , but thier opponent calls upon a repentance verse . Then someone else tosses a Granade of verses laced with a slight insult of some type .

oh but they didn’t realize the other guy had a hypersonic at the ready and he unloads all his verses again and it’s pretty damaging when it hits but oops , it was a nuclear power he just hit and he’s gonna retaliate with the “ big one “

As if these verses oppose each other or the message os convoluted and contrary to itself or something and not plain and clear

awe interpret rather than listen and believe what’s already there

I'm not a Calvinist, but if that is your view of Calvinism, then you don't rightly understand election. You make it out to be selection. That's why I asked you if you understand the difference between the two. I'm still interested in your explanation.

Not understanding it? How about not even considering it? I just posted this in "Life-Bits" a couple of days ago.

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Except...the other side has made no such claim against me. They are free to do so. But I don't misrepresent their positions. I simply state what I disagree with. And that's the difference.

Some believed and entered into rest with thier fathers before them even then but others believed not and were destroyed

Is this about salvation? If it is, then you are advocating keeping the law to obtain salvation.