Yes, that is why to really get a grasp of what is going on and what people are really like and actually believe, spending more time and/or being exposed to more than a few posts becomes necessary, because certain people misrepresent themselves as well, like telling us they are not invested when they are here every day, day after day, month after month, and then other people come along and believe the lies they tell. Lies like being told they do not misrepresent us, when I just showed you a very good example of how they do. Quite a few made this claim but it is contrary to the truth of the matter. I have also more than once explained what certain terms mean, quite patiently I might add, but people are too attached to their knee jerk reactions to actually consider the truth of the matter and they are certainly not going to admit they are wrong. Oh, and I gave you other examples yesterday of how others misrepresent. Take that with you.
Understanding God’s election
- Thread starter dougcho
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Yes in the spirit of keeping things real we aren’t a good example in the bdf of how mature Christians are meant to act when discussing scripture .
You aren’t the first person to come here and be exhausted relatively quickly . It’s pretty much a war zone at times here not always but if you hang in there you’ll find some that you can discuss peacefully with . And will find some edification and also offer some to them in tbe exchanges
sometimes with the same people you may disagree later but certain folks have the right spirit to discuss with and won’t totally drain your strength and will lol
God bless just trying to encourage you not to leave
You aren’t the first person to come here and be exhausted relatively quickly . It’s pretty much a war zone at times here not always but if you hang in there you’ll find some that you can discuss peacefully with . And will find some edification and also offer some to them in tbe exchanges
sometimes with the same people you may disagree later but certain folks have the right spirit to discuss with and won’t totally drain your strength and will lol
God bless just trying to encourage you not to leave
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Me? You consider me to be reasonable?
Lol.
OH I thought you were Mem LOL
Yes what I’m saying is some people only are ever told single sentences from the Bible then someone tells them what they think about it . and so they believe a true sentence from the Bible but they haven’t heard how it applies and fits into the rest of what’s taught as a whole in the Bible . Instead tbey hear a false idea about what that one sentance “really means “
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Yes, I said it about a month ago, and three weeks later asked why were were persisting. I did hope
you could come to understand what I was saying, but even after all that time, you made a statement
that was 100% at odds with what I believe, thinking that is what I had been saying. But I know you did
not say it in malice like so many others here deliberately misrepresent. Why is that funny? It is sad.
you could come to understand what I was saying, but even after all that time, you made a statement
that was 100% at odds with what I believe, thinking that is what I had been saying. But I know you did
not say it in malice like so many others here deliberately misrepresent. Why is that funny? It is sad.
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And you can add to the above:
2 Thess 2:13
13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.
NIV
And,
1 Peter 1:2
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood:
Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
NIV
2 Thess 2:13
13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.
NIV
And,
1 Peter 1:2
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood:
Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
NIV
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You left out verse 5 which refutes everything you stated. Notice the "having predestinated us unto the adoption". They, of verse 1,
(including all of the elect), were those predestinated to spiritual adoption. That verse, of itself, negates your statement that:
" got in by believing the gospel of salvation, and that did not occur before the foundation of the world." Instead, they "got in"
because they were predestinated in.
[Eph 1:5 KJV] 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
You need to make a distinction between being "chosen" and being "placed" - being chosen "in Christ" versus actually being placed "in Christ" are two different things: those chosen in Him, were chosen (by God), before the foundation of the world - but that is not synonymous to placing (finding themselves) in Christ - that happens at different times during one's lifetime unto those chosen, but as to when, being dependent upon God's choice - the timing not necessarily the same from one to the another. That is why Paul could say that Andronicus and Junia were placed in Christ before him - but not chosen before him. We can see this in Romans 8:2, where Paul tells us that at a certain point in his life, he was made free of the law of sin and death, being placed under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, though chosen by God for it from before the foundation of the world, by which, those chosen, believe.
Given that in verse 4, we are told they were chosen "in him", and by being so chosen, their spiritual outcome was made sure.
[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Re Eph 1:13, being sealed by the Holy Spirit is an event different than being indwelled with the Holy Spirit. Being indwelled happens from/by spiritual rebirth upon salvation; being sealed, on the other hand, occurs when we come to faith/belief in Christ as Savior, after, but as a result of rebirth.
Grace is an all-or-nothing proposition. If any part of it has to be achieved or acted on by its recipient to be received, then it isn't grace.
(including all of the elect), were those predestinated to spiritual adoption. That verse, of itself, negates your statement that:
" got in by believing the gospel of salvation, and that did not occur before the foundation of the world." Instead, they "got in"
because they were predestinated in.
[Eph 1:5 KJV] 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
You need to make a distinction between being "chosen" and being "placed" - being chosen "in Christ" versus actually being placed "in Christ" are two different things: those chosen in Him, were chosen (by God), before the foundation of the world - but that is not synonymous to placing (finding themselves) in Christ - that happens at different times during one's lifetime unto those chosen, but as to when, being dependent upon God's choice - the timing not necessarily the same from one to the another. That is why Paul could say that Andronicus and Junia were placed in Christ before him - but not chosen before him. We can see this in Romans 8:2, where Paul tells us that at a certain point in his life, he was made free of the law of sin and death, being placed under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, though chosen by God for it from before the foundation of the world, by which, those chosen, believe.
Given that in verse 4, we are told they were chosen "in him", and by being so chosen, their spiritual outcome was made sure.
[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Re Eph 1:13, being sealed by the Holy Spirit is an event different than being indwelled with the Holy Spirit. Being indwelled happens from/by spiritual rebirth upon salvation; being sealed, on the other hand, occurs when we come to faith/belief in Christ as Savior, after, but as a result of rebirth.
Grace is an all-or-nothing proposition. If any part of it has to be achieved or acted on by its recipient to be received, then it isn't grace.
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They do not understand personal revelation. That's why they say it is not necessary. And say God is unfair for doing it.
Really it is such an odd position to take, to insist God is unfair for keeping His promises.
Methinks they have it backwards. Or they're just plain wrong. Take your pick?
Really it is such an odd position to take, to insist God is unfair for keeping His promises.
Methinks they have it backwards. Or they're just plain wrong. Take your pick?
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Yes my first engagement with you in this thread sis was because you told me what I said wasn’t true about men becoming wicked over time and not because Adam ate the fruit . and you felt it was important to correct it .
and so we talked about that for awhile and got nowhere lol then now I’ve sort of lost what everyone said to you because I haven’t followed but your comments to me and mine to you.
i feel like you’ve been like I have been saying a lot to others and then when we answer each other some of what the other people have said is getting out on you and I when we’ve been discussing our own topic ( I thought )
In other words I feel old and lost right now lol and have no real train of thought left asto what we’re even discussing anymore .
everyone who thinks man didn’t choose still thinks it everyone who thinks we can choose Jesus when we hear the gospel still thinks it
i still think man becomes wicked over time through a covenant as they break it more and more and you probably to my knowledge of what you’ve said about that topic still feel as you did ect
this is what I’m saying . I think we have the wrong attitude beforehand and even maybe wrong intent for it to really benefit anyone
Yet …..everyone seems to believe that Jesus suffered and died for thier sins according to scripture and that he rose from the dead the third day after his burial by the power and glory of God formoir justification ( I think could be an assumption but ) maybe if we do t agree on every detail and not and bolt it’s ….gonna be alright still
and so we talked about that for awhile and got nowhere lol then now I’ve sort of lost what everyone said to you because I haven’t followed but your comments to me and mine to you.
i feel like you’ve been like I have been saying a lot to others and then when we answer each other some of what the other people have said is getting out on you and I when we’ve been discussing our own topic ( I thought )
In other words I feel old and lost right now lol and have no real train of thought left asto what we’re even discussing anymore .
everyone who thinks man didn’t choose still thinks it everyone who thinks we can choose Jesus when we hear the gospel still thinks it
i still think man becomes wicked over time through a covenant as they break it more and more and you probably to my knowledge of what you’ve said about that topic still feel as you did ect
this is what I’m saying . I think we have the wrong attitude beforehand and even maybe wrong intent for it to really benefit anyone
Yet …..everyone seems to believe that Jesus suffered and died for thier sins according to scripture and that he rose from the dead the third day after his burial by the power and glory of God formoir justification ( I think could be an assumption but ) maybe if we do t agree on every detail and not and bolt it’s ….gonna be alright still
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I studied Latin in High School, four years I believe, I have a lot more where that came from.... 
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But could Paul have been saved without "his initial encounter with Jesus"? Why can't you see that that encounter involved Christ's effectual grace in calling Paul to himself?
And furthermore, it was always God's intention to save Paul! The salvation of the apostle was not a mere afterthought. Nor did God intervene in Paul's life in such a dramatic way based on any good he found in the apostle! Paul was on God's radar long before he was on that road to Damascus:
Gal 1:15-16a
15 But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles...
NIV
And furthermore, it was always God's intention to save Paul! The salvation of the apostle was not a mere afterthought. Nor did God intervene in Paul's life in such a dramatic way based on any good he found in the apostle! Paul was on God's radar long before he was on that road to Damascus:
Gal 1:15-16a
15 But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles...
NIV