Gospel Confusion...

I think you probably know my answer, but here it is again:

The normative way of stating the Gospel kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” and you will be saved (as in 2CR 4:5 & CL 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.

2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (MT 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18, RM 2:5-11).

3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (RM 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1CR 15:14-28).

4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).

5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word everyone cooperates fully with His will (JN 14:6, 17&26, RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

Teachings that are secondary or subsequent to learning the Gospel/GRFS (called the didache, which means teaching) may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but they are not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (MT 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.

The distinction between kerygma and didache can be seen also in 2 Timothy 3:15-17. The scriptures “which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” refers to the Gospel or kerygma. The scriptural teaching that is useful for “training in righteousness, so that the man [or woman per GL 3:28] of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” refers to the didache.
The apostle Paul also employs the difference between kerygma and didache in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. The “foundation… which is Jesus Christ” is the kerygmatic teaching regarding salvation. Paul alludes to the didache when he says that one should be careful how he/she builds upon this foundation.

I noticed that you quoted no scripture for backing, so there's not much to discuss since your post is rooted in your opinion.

However, in answer to your question, Paul's Gospel is precisely that...the death, burial and resurrection of Christ Jesus, and nothing else:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Some believe that Paul was remiss by leaving out water baptism unto remission of sins, but that was no longer the saving Gospel that was given to Paul for him to preach to the Gentiles and believing Jews. The sin of omission is something Paul cannot legitimately be accused of having perpetrated, but some see themselves as qualified to stand with Satan to accuse Paul.

MM

Some common sayings among many believers are:

“There's only one gospel throughout all the Bible, and so everyone is saved in the exact same way.”
“Jesus, along with His 12 apostles, and along with Paul, all preached the same gospel message.”
“All that happened was Paul came along later and continued Peter's ministry gospel and ministry, but to the Gentiles.”

Those claims sound very biblical to many, but are the assumptions behind these claims correct?

1. To whom did Jesus and His 12 disciples preach?
2. What was their gospel message?
3. Paul was the apostle to....whom?
4. What was Paul's gospel that he preached?

Please share your thoughts on these questions.

MM

Mark 9:31-32
31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
32 But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.

They did come to understand much later, but not until right before His crucifixion, after they had been preaching the Kingdom Gospel which did NOT mention the work of the cross. If you think otherwise, then this is the place to prove it.

MM

Yep, great verses to apply. At this time, after the rejection of Christ by the nation of Israel, we are to only preach the gospel of the grace of God. We are not to preach the gospel of the kingdom anymore.

And then shall the end come, not later, but then...

Where in those passages do you see it stated that the disciples understood what Jesus was saying?

John 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

The idea that all those quotes show that the disciples understood what He was saying to them, we still have this:

Mark 9:31-32
31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
32 But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.

So, I hope you can see that what you are assuming into those verses in contrast to this revelation, the assumption simply doesn't hold water.

MM

Thats not what he said. verse 3 he says "I delivered unto you FIRST OF ALL" thats not the whole message. This can be easily proven by using Paul himself, and I did ALLUDE to scripture but since you need specifics here is one:

In Galatians 2, Paul writes: " But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? "

1. To whom did Jesus and His 12 disciples preach?

2. What was their gospel message?

4. What was Paul's gospel that he preached?

Some common sayings among many believers are:

“There's only one gospel throughout all the Bible, and so everyone is saved in the exact same way.”
“Jesus, along with His 12 apostles, and along with Paul, all preached the same gospel message.”
“All that happened was Paul came along later and continued Peter's ministry gospel and ministry, but to the Gentiles.”

Those claims sound very biblical to many, but are the assumptions behind these claims correct?

1. To whom did Jesus and His 12 disciples preach?
2. What was their gospel message?
3. Paul was the apostle to....whom?
4. What was Paul's gospel that he preached?

Please share your thoughts on these questions.

MM

This is a wild assumption on your part. Jesus regularly told his disciples that he was going to be killed and then resurrected from the dead. Furthermore, he told them that this kingdom would not appear until his second coming.

The gospel of the kingdom was only meant for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. It was good news to Israel concerning their kingdom being restored and their promised Messiah ruling and reigning in Jerusalem on David's throne. Today, we do not go around saying, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand." This message was signified by signs to the Jews.

Matthew 10:
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

So, according to your nonsense, Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, did not preach this same kingdom to the Gentiles?

Paul speaking to the saints at Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch.

Act 14:21
And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
Act 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Paul speaking to the saints at Ephesus.

Act 20:25
And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

Paul speaking to the saints at Rome.

Rom 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Paul speaking to the saints at Corinth.

1Co 15:24
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Paul speaking to the saints at Galatia.

Gal 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul speaking to the saints at Colosse.

Col 4:11
And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.

Paul speaking to the saints at Thessalonica.

2Th 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Are you noticing a pattern? You should be. What about Philip at Samaria?

Act 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Both Jews and Gentiles had the same kingdom preached to them. Deal with it.

So, according to your nonsense, Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, did not preach this same kingdom to the Gentiles?

Paul speaking to the saints at Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch.

Act 14:21
And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
Act 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Paul speaking to the saints at Ephesus.

Act 20:25
And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

Paul speaking to the saints at Rome.

Rom 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Paul speaking to the saints at Corinth.

1Co 15:24
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Paul speaking to the saints at Galatia.

Gal 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul speaking to the saints at Colosse.

Col 4:11
And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.

Paul speaking to the saints at Thessalonica.

2Th 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Are you noticing a pattern? You should be. What about Philip at Samaria?

Act 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Both Jews and Gentiles had the same kingdom preached to them. Deal with it.

The cross was not a part of the kingdom gospel,

"Much later?"

Now, you are just making things up.

How about shortly thereafter instead?

Mar 10:32
And they were in the way going up to Jerusalem; and Jesus went before them: and they were amazed; and as they followed, they were afraid. And he took again the twelve, and began to tell them what things should happen unto him,
Mar 10:33
Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:
Mar 10:34
And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Your Ignorance is showing here ----about what the Cross Signifies

Without the Cross there would be no kingdom gospel -----the Law which brings death would still be in place - there would be no eternal life without the Cross being involved ------

all who accept what the cross gave them ----Jesus defeating death and bringing in the Covenant of Grace ---will also have a Cross to bear -----so the cross plays a big part in the Gospel of the Kingdom

Anyone following The Way ---not man made Religion ---has to pick up and bear their own CROSS ---which leads to Heaven and eternal life -----

"take up your cross and follow me"


What does this mean

People's Commentary (NT)

Matthew 16:24 If any [man] will come after me. Compare Mark 8:34-38 Lu 9:23-27.

The conditions of discipleship are presented. Let him deny himself. Let him be prepared to say "no" to many of the strongest cravings of his nature, in the direction more particularly of earthly ease, comfort, dignity, and glory.

Take his cross. Luke adds "daily" (Luke 9:23); not once, but all the time.

The cross is the pain of the self-denial required in the preceding words.

The cross is the symbol of doing our duty, even at the cost of the most painful death. And follow me.

To follow Christ is to take him for our master, our teacher, our example; to believe his doctrines, to uphold his cause, to obey his precepts, and to do it though it leads to heaven by way of the cross.

Jesus ONLY preached that to His disciples.

And they did not understand it at all until AFTER His Resurrection.

Neither Jesus, nor the disciples preached the atoning sacrificial death and subsequent Resurrection of Christ for Salvation.

IF, the Jews had accepted that the Kingdom was at Hand, and NOT put Him on trial and crucified Him, then the He WOULD have set the Kingdom up right then and there.

But that was NEVER God's Plan for the Redemption of all mankind, including the gentiles.

Obviously, you do not know the difference between understanding something and believing it.

What must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. Period. That is how ALL people come to salvation.

What we see is different teaching methods.

The Jews had a PHD in theology and still didn't get it. So the teaching method uses their knowledge of scripture to get them to SEE the main premise.

The gentiles were in bible 101. Start with the MAIN premise.

One Gospel to be saved. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.