The Rapture of the church, REAL or NOT REAL?

Paragraphs are good--about as long as a verse in a song.
Speaking of song lyrics, I wonder if at the rapture the angels will be singing rapt music?
(G-rated, of course :^)

Surely, they'll be layin' down some riffs.

No problem!!! I Have books that PROVE BIBLICALLY that the "Rapture" will absolutely happen during the "Feast of Trumpets" in 1988!!! 88 proofs, in fact!!!! I can hardly wait!!!

Thats funny because I kind of think that the music we will hear in Heaven will be unlike anything we have ever HEARD hereon Earth in the most fantastic way imaginable. Could you imagine SOUND that energizes ever cell and organism in the body. Sound that genuinely breathes LIFE into every being. Resonates with everyone who comes into contact with it? Can you imagine a type of SOUND that could even raise the dead and heal the sick? NO one on Earth makes music like that. Whens the last time someone played a gig in a graveyard and folks came up out of their very graves worshipping God? Or a group play at an emergency room and it clears the room? That's a POWERFUL SOUND! Sound terminating the very GLORY and presence of God Himself!

Well, as an aficionado of doo-wop and the BB's, yes, I can imagine heavenly music. :^)

Great post. I licked what you said. The study of hermeneutics isn't one I even knew about until the late 2000's and I had to attend bible school in order to even have heard the term. Then when I got into it I thought it was the most drug out boring study there was. Of course, I did not come from a Christian family. My family was all military folks. My father was a Navy SEAL in Vietnam as well as uncles serving in Nam in the Marine Recon and Army Special Forces. So what did we military types know about scriptures and deep dive study. Oh we could tell you all about battlefield warfare and combat-style tactics to win battles as I was an infantry soldier myself serving in the Army for 9 years. Dad he could tell you about the recovery NASA missions for the space pods in the ocean recovering Gemini 9, and Gemini 12 and loading them onto the USS WASP Aircraft carrier and recovering the Astronauts out of those pods.
When I entered bible college I may as well have entered the study of Chinese or some far dialect language. I realized very quickly I was way out of my depth but I was intrigued. I never cared for the macadamia crowd really as the snooty looking down their nose at us so called "uneducated military guys". However, I was encouraged by my pastor to go attend and soak in everything I could while not trying to become some biblical scholar or expert. I am just a normal guy wanting to know more about God and history from a biblical view point. I love the study of eschatology and have a natural curiosity to know what may be coming and what is coming as do a lot of folks. Now don't get me wrong, Academia or the thought of being someone because you know something does seem to have it's place but needs to have the wisdom and humility of the Lord attached to it. The study of hermeneutics to me was LONG and drug out, however, if say I lived in Hebrew culture, it would be imperative as they focus on every jot and title, much like the detail-oriented ancient bean counters. In the U.S. Army we called that paying attention to detail.

YEA I see what you mean because my relative will read over my shoulder and abruptly correct me AS I am writing totally interrupting my entire train of thought making it almost impossible to get an idea even in rough form out there. I don't believe you're like she is.

Not sure how many of us would have made it thousands of years ago reading the Torah, scrolls etc Well most didn't have chapter, verses nor paragraphs. I never found anything almost impossible to read here. I don't know maybe has to do with your past how you were treated.. what ever.

Caught up.. something that should be on our mind 24/7 always watching always ready. There is no truth in don't be so heavenly minded your no earthly good. Christ came to His own and look at all the wonders He did. That word was flesh everything that is.. is because of Him and He walked face to face with them and when they took Him . he was alone all had left Him.

So here we are over two thousand years later and what do we do? We don't just come together to lift up Him praise Him worship Him looking up excited He is coming for us. We know He told us He would come for us and we wait patiently encouraging each other to keep the faith don't let this world weigh you down right? Were here to help. No we joke it about we make fun of one group more then any other. (One two three up to infinity...GOD I'm still counting my blessing) Song playing.

Was pre-trib at the start. Yes if your around that you tend to just believe it. At one point I went searching and found it was talked about preached about 300-400BC. Here we are over two thousands years sine Christ went up.. oh just that.. SHOUTING TIME! And what do we do? Debate.. me I can prepare for tomorrow but there is no scriptures promising me tomorrow so hmm I will watch how I live and keep my eyes on Christ Jesus always looking up knowing this is the moment He comes. No pre no mid no post. I was only given this moment so I won't waste it. To always be watching to always be thinking about Him.. is there something better? It would seem I lean to pre but I cannot prove pre mid post. I can see them in the word but there are verses that no one to this day fully know what it says. Like the great falling away most will not tell you that word can also mean departure. Departure was the first word used many years ago in one of the translations Just be ready now.. you will never miss Him.

This is a great response. You sound like what the New Testament calls "A good Berean.". The Bereans were ancient people of "The Word."

If you want anyone to actually read your thoughts you'll think about basic formatting. Thoughts are meaningless unless they're put into some kind of structure a reader can understand.

The sound of Daddy's music, thank you PaPa, Father Son and you are One Won for us rot be new in your thank you, time to get purged from the consciousness of sin Amen
Living Bible

2 Cor12:1-6

12 This boasting is all so foolish, but let me go on. Let me tell about the visions I’ve had, and revelations from the Lord.
2-3 Fourteen years ago I[a] was taken up to heaven for a visit. Don’t ask me whether my body was there or just my spirit, for I don’t know; only God can answer that. But anyway, there I was in paradise, 4 and heard things so astounding that they are beyond a man’s power to describe or put in words (and anyway I am not allowed to tell them to others). 5 That experience is something worth bragging about, but I am not going to do it. I am going to boast only about how weak I am and how great God is to use such weakness for his glory. 6 I have plenty to boast about and would be no fool in doing it, but I don’t want anyone to think more highly of me than he should from what he can actually see in my life and my message.

Absolutely,
Scripture was written in a day and age that the economics of written words were expensive and information was almost Top secret.
It's like a Twitter post where you don't get subsequent posts. So everything is condensed extremely. Every word and sentence is planned carefully.
Obvious information (to them) is left out.

Meaning you have to understand the anthropology of the time period it was written in.
Idioms of speech of 2,000-6000 years ago, on the other side of the planet are not going to be readily understood today.

And their culture was orders of magnitude more complex than ours today. Things people do today without even thinking about them were massively taboo or foreign concepts. IE: moving across state lines because you got transferred by your company or for better job opportunities. In Jewish culture that was very seldom done. Joseph and Mary were almost considered Gentiles at worst and extremely poor at best because of their moving about to Bethlehem, Egypt and then to Nazareth. Where they did eventually settle into Nazareth (Jewish suburb of Sepphoris) that town had a very poor reputation and thoughts by everyone. No one moved there intentionally....only because they were almost forced to. Financially speaking, they were.

So, you see how much I wrote just to explain what scripture does in half a sentence? That's why Hermeneutics, the blend of Art (various types of speech from idioms to metaphors) and science (anthropology, History, Geography and etc) together are necessary to understand what was actually being said in scriptures.
Of course, we have a ton of internet scholars who claim to know more than they do. Especially when anyone challenges their pet populist theologies.
The Jews, 2000 years ago, had their Messiah coming in as a wealthy conquerer that was going to restore Israel as the Supreme Nation in the world and overthrow the Roman Empire as a populist theology. So....if a theology is populist....probably a good idea to abandon it. Those two prophets in the Temple who blessed baby Jesus....they were the ONLY Jews to get it right.

My biggest problem with the pre-trib rapture is that its just not described anywhere in the Bible.

Even in the book of Revelation, there is no mention of people being caught up (which would require a resurrection FIRST to begin with, as per 1 Thess 4:15-17) and then a bunch of people "left behind" wondering where is everyone. No mention of anyone being left behind anywhere.

Plus it would be impossible for anyone to be deceived by anything if the rapture occured and millions of people vanished, everyone has seen the left behind movies and all that and knows exactly what to expect. The whole idea is science fiction, not bible.

It is good if you do not mean to offend; however, the question is - are you willing to go an extra-little-bit (not even a mile) to help the reader?

The only likely offense would be - if you simply do-not-care about how you present what you write. Is it not worthwhile to consider the reader?

Perhaps, when you have finished your relaxed writing - and, have gotten your thoughts out there - you might go back and break it up into paragraphs?

"Just a thought..."

Fair warning - there are folks on here who will refuse to read your posts if they are in a "wall of text" format. And, while it is not always absolute, I have been known to do that myself. In other words - "sometimes" - only if I am truly interested in what someone has to say will I read a "wall of text" post. Otherwise, I just skip it - not necessarily because I cannot manage to read it if I want to - because, I can if I want to - instead, it may be because I just figure that - if they really do not care about presenting what they wrote in a way that "intends" to help the reader - why should I bother to read what they wrote...?

In other words, if your attitude comes across [as] a bit "snobbish" - like you do not care about other folks - if you are not willing to "meet them half way" in your efforts to communicate effectively - well - why should anyone read what you wrote...?

I am not against you in any way - just want to get you to thinking about how what you do and the way you do it affects the overall communication process.

Case in point - what are you able to glean from post #34 that cannot be obtained from the following?

It is good if you do not mean to offend; however, the question is - are you willing to go an extra-little-bit (not even a mile) to help the reader? The only likely offense would be - if you simply do-not-care about how you present what you write. Is it not worthwhile to consider the reader? Perhaps, when you have finished your relaxed writing - and, have gotten your thoughts out there - you might go back and break it up into paragraphs? "Just a thought..." Fair warning - there are folks on here who will refuse to read your posts if they are in a "wall of text" format. And, while it is not always absolute, I have been known to do that myself. In other words - "sometimes" - only if I am truly interested in what someone has to say will I read a "wall of text" post. Otherwise, I just skip it - not necessarily because I cannot manage to read it if I want to - because, I can if I want to - instead, it may be because I just figure that - if they really do not care about presenting what they wrote in a way that "intends" to help the reader - why should I bother to read what they wrote...? In other words, if your attitude comes across [as] a bit "snobbish" - like you do not care about other folks - if you are not willing to "meet them half way" in your efforts to communicate effectively - well - why should anyone read what you wrote...? I am not against you in any way - just want to get you to thinking about how what you do and the way you do it affects the overall communication process.

The answer - the "cadence" and "emphasis" in/of the thought process.

That point is well taken. The strange thing was that as I read this I remembered how Hebrew text in the Torah is arranged and how there are no paragraphs and they read from right to left.
Back when I first encountered Hebrew text in it's true form, I had such a hard time comprehending how to even decipher it much less learn to read in this way. Like you said, it was a sheer wall of text arranged opposite of how we Western cultured folks will read anything. To this day I STILL can't read that way at all. I realized what you were saying as I pondered how Hebrew is arranged and how hard THAT was. I NEEDED the English translation and rearrangement to even begin to understand it.
Plus, I am married to let's just say my little "helper." I call her my spelling Gustapo! YUP! She was an English major and will interrupt me to no end as she peered over my shoulder saying; "Put a period there! Oh you can't spell that this way!" Now THAT gets frustrating to say the least which is why I got into the habit of typing as fast as I could and hurrying it up to post something quickly before it got scrutinized. Yada yada. Bad habits.

The idea of a 'rapture' is most definitely in the Bible - described in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 with the words "caught up" - even if the word 'rapture' is not actually in the Bible.

The "problem" with the rapture issue comes from folks simply believing erroneous information that they are taught - from well-meaning folks who were taught error - from well-meaning folks who were taught error - etc. And, they do not even realize what has happened.

At some point, you have to break the cycle - by ignoring what you have been taught and really carefully paying attention to what scripture is actually saying.

However, some people just do not want to do this - they prefer to believe what makes them "feel better" about future events rather than what the actual truth is concerning those future events. They prefer to 'sleep' and 'dream' rather than to 'wake up' and 'be sober' (realistically objective).

And, many/most do not even realize that this is what they are doing...

I agree.

It is also true that not all of the details of an event are explained in every place that talks about that event. This is where careful discernment is needed.

I agree.

Albeit, "the whole world" is currently being "set up" to believe a new-age narrative...

Does anyone know where I can go to enter back in and redo this post so that these nit-picking tongue lashers will finally stop scrutinizing what I post and shut the crud UP? I am a military VET and don't put up with this even in my own family. I appreciate the attempted help but good grief folks! So How on EARTH do I go in and edit the entire thing so they will get quiet and focus on the actual thread itself. Not being the "bean counters" or the "Gestapo" of this site.

All you can really do is focus on future posts. As a rule, the site staff will not edit a post without a really good reason. And, after the 5-minute time limit, you yourself cannot edit the post. However, while still within that 5-minute time limit, you can delete the post.

"What is done is done."

(Something to always remember when making future posts.)

Like I said - it affects the overall communication process - and thus - how the thread moves forward...

Making posts on this site carries with it a great lesson about the 'community' aspect of it - and, the great variance among members.