Is Open Theism Heresy?

So then it (open theism) is concerned with causation/determinism not foreknowledge or both?

Open Theism is concerned with rightly discerning from scripture the nature and character of God that show Him worthy of our love, praise, thanks and service. What are the attributes of God that scripture itself prioritizes?

Scripture time and time again portrays and declares God to be relational, good, loving, living, and personal. These characteristics of God are demonstrated on every page of scripture.

The classical attributes of God, derived from Platonist theory regarding the theoretical attributes of an uncaused cause, are immutability, impassibility, omnipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience. Some of these classical attributes (immutability and impassibility) contradict the biblically prioritized attributes, are very rarely if ever alluded to, and where classical theologians claim they are alluded to, the texts are equally or better reconcilable with an Open Theist model.

Open theists also see in scripture a different description of God's relationship to time from what the Platonist "uncaused cause" theory proposes must be so. God is seen as the Bible describes Him: ever-existing and ever-enduring. The Bible never call Him timeless. For this reason, Open Theists conceptualize time differently from classical theist, and this leads to different conclusions regarding how the future unfolds. and how much God interferes in the rulership over the earth that God delegated to man.

Open Theism is concerned with rightly discerning from scripture the nature and character of God that show Him worthy of our love, praise, thanks and service. What are the attributes of God that scripture itself prioritises?

Scripture time and time again portrays and declares God to be relational, good, loving, living, and personal. These characteristics of God are demonstrated on every page of scripture.

The classical attributes of God, derived from Platonist theory regarding the theoretical attributes of an uncaused cause, are immutability, impassibility, omnipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience. Some of these classical attributes (immutability and impassibility) contradict the biblically prioritised attributes, are very rarely if ever alluded to, and where classical theologians claim they are alluded to, the texts are equally or better reconcilable with an Open Theist model.

Open theists also see in scripture a different description of God's relationship to time from what the Platonist "uncaused cause" theory proposes must be so. God is seen as the Bible describes Him: ever-existing and ever-enduring. The Biblke never call God timeless. For this reason, Open Theists conceptualise time differently from classical theist, and this leads to different conclusions regarding how the future unfolds. how much God interferes in the rulership over the earth that God delegated to man and how much man's actions contribute to determining the future that unfolds.

Open Theism is concerned with rightly discerning from scripture the nature and character of God that show Him worthy of our love, praise, thanks and service. What are the attributes of God that scripture itself prioritises?

Scripture time and time again portrays and declares God to be relational, good, loving, living, and personal. These characteristics of God are demonstrated on every page of scripture.

The classical attributes of God, derived from Platonist theory regarding the theoretical attributes of an uncaused cause, are immutability, impassibility, omnipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience. Some of these classical attributes (immutability and impassibility) contradict the biblically prioritised attributes, are very rarely if ever alluded to, and where classical theologians claim they are alluded to, the texts are equally or better reconcilable with an Open Theist model.

Open theists also see in scripture a different description of God's relationship to time from what the Platonist "uncaused cause" theory proposes must be so. God is seen as the Bible describes Him: ever-existing and ever-enduring. The Biblke never call God timeless. For this reason, Open Theists conceptualise time differently from classical theist, and this leads to different conclusions regarding how the future unfolds. how much God interferes in the rulership over the earth that God delegated to man and how much man's actions contribute to determining the future that unfolds.

What was the scripture you used then?

Yes. I agree. Jesus is the humanity the Son came as, and returned to heaven as.

Thank you, I like how you explain it.

My preference is to not put God in a "box" we are after all with limited finite minds trying to understand the infinite mind.

I think Hamlet had it right,
There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

LOL. You don't know the doctrine of Kenosis

First off, Jesus said 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” John 10:18 Willful submission is not a weakness. It is Meekness.


and the likeness of something is not an admission of accepting all of the likenesses. God became man; man did not become GOD.

The weakness was in enduring the cross period.

in addition to the Book of Jonah

LOL. You don't know the doctrine of Kenosis

First off, Jesus said 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” John 10:18 Willful submission is not a weakness. It is Meekness.


and the likeness of something is not an admission of accepting all of the likenesses. God became man; man did not become GOD.

The weakness was in enduring the cross period.

in addition to the Book of Jonah

Well, maybe not on OT p.341 re Ai? And what about NT p.2254 re RV 9?

that is the very implication of the teaching of teaching of
"Open Theism"

The issue here is foreknowledge, and not that God decreed all things.

You knew that already, right?

You have wasted enough of my time these past few days, so I am putting you on ignore.

Well, I backtracked down the thread through our exchanges, and that scripture was not part of our interaction. maybe you cited it to someone else. I was simply responding to what you have said to me.

Omniscience means knowing everything. If I am speaking to y son who has been secretly abusing drugs, but I have found out about it, He may deny it, and i might tell him,
"I know everything. Don't lie to me." I am not claiming to know everything about the past. present and future of every entity in the universe. A claim to know everything needs to be understood in its context. It is not automatically either a claim to know exhaustively all things past, present and future or a lie. The concept of omniscience you have may be what God means if He says He knows all things.

1Jo 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
1Jo 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
1Jo 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.

In 1 John 3:20 the context taking the case where we know some of our failings. And John is saying that if we are aware of some sins, God knows all about our present and past behaviour, so He certainly knows those same sins. So we may as well admit those sins to God and repent, and not try to pretend to Him that we are not doing them. If we know of some sins we are unrepentantly practising, we will lack confidence in coming to God with our requests. But if we do not know of any secretly cherished sin in our life, we can have confidence that we are coming to Him with sincerity, and we will get a gracious hearing for our request.

"God knows all things" here means "all things about us, past and present." There is no need in this context, for it to make sense, for it to mean "knows everything about our future".

@PaulThomson, what about passages like Isaiah 46:10-11, Ps. 139:1ff, Rev 19:6, Hebrews 4:13, or prophetic passages about Cyrus and Judas?

"If I am speaking to y son who has been secretly abusing drugs, but I have found out about it, He may deny it, and i might tell him,
"I know everything. Don't lie to me." I am not claiming to know everything about the past. present and future of every entity in the universe. "

FYI, a man speaking to his son cannot equate to God's foreknowing. Human rationality can't measure to the All-knowing God.

This what God proved in his questioning of JOB

Job 38: 1-3

Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2 “Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.


“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.

@PaulThomson, it is hard for me to wrap my mind around how God knew I’d be saved, and how He know one would be lost before He ever created or made us, but we do have free will, and it’s hard to explain to an atheist why God would have one be born when He already knew he would be condemned. This leads to people asking why’d He allow someone like Hitler be born?

@PaulThomson, is there any scriptural proof that God knows who is going to be saved or lost before they are born?