Justification in Romans

All of these passages…Rom. 1:5, 5:19, 6:16, 15:18, 16:19, 26 are from the book most noted for justification by faith. The first and last reference and everything in between is about faith. From the first chapter of of Romans there is the mention of obedience…and at the end of Romans there is the mention of obedience. Faith is not faith if there’s no obedience.

That's WRONG.
You cherry picked verses and gave some "quip" someone gave you of "Faith is not faith if there is no obedience"...

You should have read the parts of Romans you failed to quote... I will help you.
Romans 4:4-6
That says faith and works are mutually exclusive.


Mouth of 2-3 witnesses (2 cor 13:1)

Romans 11:6
Again it says faith and works are mutually exclusive.

And one more just for good measure of 2-3 witnesses as in (2 cor 13:1).
Romans 10:13-17
Faith cometh by HEARING and hearing by the word of God. Not by obedience... By being told.

Being told and obeying are NOT the same thing.


And now let's tackle the verses you MISQUOTED...
Romans 5:19 is about JESUS the Obedience talked about there is NOT YOURS, NOT MINE... It is JESUS ALONE!
Only Jesus could fulfill the Law. ONLY JESUS! To try to take a verse that shows that ONLY Jesus can fulfill the law, and try to throw people under a law with it... That is WRONG.

Romans 6:16 AGAIN you took it out of context. The verse before is talking about sinning so grace may abound (since sin requires grace). Then Paul is making the argument since we are servants aka slaves, we should obey our new master Jesus, not our old one sin.
Verse 18 for example....
The end of Romans 6 is NOT saying you have to obey to have faith or anything of the sort. It is saying a Christian should obey because they have been freed.

Romans 15:18 you found the word obedient but.... this is obedient to the GOSPEL, not any works after. Read Romans 10:9-13 for more information.

Romans 16:19 is again OUT OF CONTEXT, it is talking about their obedience to doctrine nothing about needing obedience to have faith. Read the two verses before.

Romans 16:26 again OUT OF CONTEXT, verse before Paul says this is according to his GOSPEL, which is given in Romans 10:9-13. The obedience is not to obtain or keep or maintain faith. The obedience is compliance with a command and what is this command? FAITH ALONE.


TO END... Salvation is FAITH ALONE
If anyone confesses that Jesus is the Lord (God). And believes He raised from the grave on the third day by His own power. And that salvation is FAITH ALONE.
THEY ARE SAVED
No works, no obedience to any rules needed. It is FAITH ALONE.
The only thing required to be obedient to is the gospel I just gave.
1 Corinthians 3:11-15
Salvation is faith alone. Even if a man has not one good work or deed, if they followed the Gospel I gave and Paul gave and ever saved preacher has given... THEY ARE SAVED.
The obedience needed is to the Gospel that Christ did it all and man can add nothing!
If works are needed then Christ died in vain.

Despite all the Xs your post got, what you posted is true. Faith IS obedience.

No faith = no obedience. No obedience = no faith. The Bible stresses obedience everywhere. Its willful blindness that causes these people to miss it. Let me quote this once again for the people with OSAS dispie delusions:


teaching infers or presumes that somehow:

• No virgin’s lamp can go out…(Matthew 25:8)
• No promising harvest can be choked with thorns…(Matthew 13:7)
• No branch in Christ can ever be cut off for not abiding…(John 15:6)
• No forgiveness can ever be forfeited… (Matthew 18:32)
• No name can be blotted out of God’s book…(Revelation 3:5; Exodus 32:33)
• No salt can ever lose its flavor…(Matthew 5:13)

“Once Saved, Always Saved,” says that nobody can ever:

• “Receive the grace of God in vain”… (2 Corinthians 6:1)
• “Bury [their] talents”…(Matthew 25:18)
• “Neglect such great salvation”… (Hebrews 2:3)
• “Look back” after putting [their] hand to the plow… (Luke 9:62)
• Nor “deny the Lord that bought them” and “brings upon themselves swift destruction” (2 Peter 2:1)
• Nobody, or body of believers, can ever get so lukewarm that Jesus will spew them out of His mouth… (Revelation 3:16)

“Once Saved, Always Saved” will argue that:

• If you are lost, you were never found (John 17:12)
• If one falls, he was never standing (Romans 11:16-22; Hebrews 6:4-6)
• If one was ever “cast forth,” he was never in, and “if one ever withered,” he was never attached to the vine and once green (John 15:1-6)
• “If any man draws back,” proves that he never had anything to draw back from (Hebrews 10:38,39)
• If one ever “falls away into spiritual darkness,” he was never enlightened (Hebrews 6:4-6)
• If you “again get entangled in the pollution of the world,” it shows that you never escaped (2 Peter 2:20)
• If you “put salvation away” you never truly had it (Hebrews 10:35; Psalms 51:11)
• If you make a shipwreck of your faith, there was no ship of faith there, to begin with!! (1 Timothy 1:19)

If you can lose salvation it AINT ETERNAL.

What @Hakawaka has just given is a cursed Gospel not from Paul.

Jesus says if ANY man comes to Him, He will no wise cast out or lose.
John 6:37-40
The guy whose name sounds like a person coughing up a lung is very fitting considering his DISGUSTING doctrine he is preaching.

He just called Jesus a liar.
How did He do that?
By quoting Matthew 25 which is to the JEWS and not the Church Gal 3:28... If you are Christian you ain't a Jew...
By quoting Matthew 13:7 which doesn't talk about losing salvation as he tried to say... he would know that if he actually read the Bible because the explanation is in Matthew 13:22 which says:
And Luke8:14 says
Neither of which say the person is saved and loses it... Both of them say they are given the seed of faith and don't bring it to fruition... They don't get saved.
It ain't about losing salvation it is about never getting it.




EVERY VERSE HE QUOTES IS OUT OF CONTEXT OR MISAPPLIED.
There is not one exception (if anyone needs specifics, ask and I will explain, I will not spend 2 hours pointlessly exposing his 'copy-paste')

Faith is NOT Obedience, that is a doctrine from the pits of HELL
Hebrews 11:1
If faith is obedience, then Hebrews just lied as well.

Titus 3:5-7

The usual dispensational madness. Paul says the exact same thing. You can indeed fall away from the faith, Paul says MANY will in the last days. 1 Timothy 4:1ff. Its all over the epistles of Paul as well. Whether you are a servant of sin, or servant of righteousness. slaves to whom ye obey.

No need to even go thru these verses with you. You probably know them, I just wonder how can you explain them away. I know dispies have this weird "its to the jews" nonsense going on, but how about the epistles of Paul? Why do yall explain those away too? BTW: did you know jews dont even believe in Jesus? And once a jew does believe in Jesus, he is under the exact same covenant as us gentiles. So basically, the teachings in the gospels are to NOBODY today?


Btw the chapter you quoted in Romans 11 ALSO teaches you can lose your salvation, so yeah...

SAME chapter as Romans 11:6 that you quoted

Romans 11:22 ote then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God 's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.


IF You continue, you wont be cut off, otherwise YOU the gentiles will ALSO be cut off. From Paul. That should do it for a dispie. But lets hear the xcuses. "bu-bu-bu-but"

@Hakawaka, thanks. You’re exactly right. One cannot separate faith from obedience. And I get extremely aggravated of when OSAS says “never saved to begin with” and when they completely explain away or are outright dishonest with all the verses that teaches apostasy.

1 tim 4:1, lets see the reason you would not quote it but only reference it.


That ain't about salvation, that is about DOCTRINE.

Kind of ironic that hack-up-a-lung would confuse a passage talking about people taking in doctrines of devils with salvation.

What does Paul say about salvation?
Let's see...

2 Timothy 2:13
Amazing, so even if a person stops believing in Jesus, they are still saved because they are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh.
So much for your works based salvation... In 2 tim 2 the person lacks any works because they stopped believing.

Let's see what Paul says again...

Galatians 1:6-9
Look at that! Paul warns about people like you that pervert the Gospel and preach another one he did not preach... He says you are accursed. Paul ain't no liar.

You also tried to say Romans 11:22 says a person can lose their salvation...
Romans 11:21-23
The groups here are NATIONS not individual people, but you would know that if you read theverses such as 12and 15

Now lastly, you ignored Romans 11:6 saying works and faith are mutually exclusive and just tried to say it preaches your works based salvation... Let's find out. I will quote it again.
Wow, it says you are WRONG. Who would have thunk that a works based salvationist who called Jesus a liar, is wrong....

We both know the reason you ain't going to "go through the verses" is not only because I know every trick you got... It's because I actually know the Scripture and have the Spirit of Christ in me.
You stand no chance. I beg you to try and expose yourself in front of all.

Salvation is faith alone, NO WORKS.
ANYONE WHO SAYS SALVATION IS BY WORKS IN THIS DISPENSATION IS PREACHING THE DOCTRINE OF SATAN!
As saith God Himself. Galatians 1.

Unfortunately its something we just have to get used to. Even more so as the day of the Lord's return approaches. This doctrine has damned countless of souls to hell.

You claim Romans 11 is about nations, which it is, so wait a minute. If gentiles fall off, I will also fall off with them? Oh wait it doesnt work. Its talking about individuals WITHIN the nations. Not all jews disbelieved, not all gentiles disbelieved. Not all jews believe, not all gentiles believe.

Its individual. Do you realize that this "two gospels" idea would have the other apostles under a curse as well for "preaching a different gospel" than Paul?

But alas, going back and forth with you is futile. No argumentation, no refuting any of the text, all you do is bring in dispensational BELIEFS and expect everyone else to swallow them hook line and sinker as you have.

I also noticed the "salvation is by works IN THIS DISPENSATION" meaning its by works in some other dispensation? Thats also wrong, its NEVER been of works of the law.

So many problems with this doctrine of dispensationalism. Its hardly Christianity. So far removed from historical Christianity.

ALso: It says they DEPART FROM THE FAITH.. Hows that not leaving?

If you actually read Romans 11, you would see Paul already answered your objection in Romans 11:1

The reason why Paul says this is so ignorant people will not say "he can't be talking about nations because individuals are saved" Paul makes it abundantly clear, even though individuals will be saved and remnants will exist. This passage is talking about the nations as a whole. Maybe you should actually start READING the bible, instead of following the script you were told was true...

Hence why Romans 11:25-28 exists.
Notice that ALL Israel will be saved as it is written (this also refutes your replacement theology you were pushing, especially verse 28 which says Israel/Jews is enemies of the Gospel but beloved for the fathers' sakes)

Thank you for continuing to speak out of your butt, so everyone can see your folly.



Now to address you saying that faith alone sends people to hell.
Ephesians 2:8-9
The hubris of saying faith alone damns a person to hell!
BLASPHEMY!

You blaspheme Jesus!!!! for Christ Himself said:
John 6:40
John 3:16-18
You call Jesus a liar and blaspheme Him. And preach a gospel of Satan.
Scripture calls you accursed.
Galatians 1:9

And obedience is not obedience if there's no faith.

You quote Romans 11 which specifically makes my point? Lol. He indeed says "for I am also an israelite" and God has indeed reserved a remnant.... So yea

You've insulted me so many times in this post alone. Sheesh.

Also you violated your own system, I will call you out on it. You are not allowed to quote John 6:40 and talk about what Christ said. Remember thats old covenant? Its not for the church, lets not get dispensationally mixed up here. Oh yeah but I forgot, you pick and choose which verses to believe.

Honestly doubt if you were to foam at the mouth like this to a person in real life, you disgusting fat american pig. I know your bacon slop mouth wont be running like this in real life. For sure. What a disgusting piece of human filth. Hey admins can you remove me from this forum? dont wanna associate with these retarded dispies anymore. Ive had enough of their brainrot.

Agree, no reason for that at all.
This is a discussion board.

Just recently experienced the same, very strange.

Your eisegesis here culminates in salvation by works.

Excellent! I once was OSAS,
(but now I see :^)

Sadly, many people will end up finding that out the hard way. (Matthew 7:22-23)

No, YOUR eisegesis stems from not asking whether salvation by works was intended.

What was written includes RM 1:17, "In the gospel a righteousness is revealed--
a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written,
'The righteous will live by faith.'" (HAB 2:4)

(No salvation via faithless works here :^)

I have read enough of his posts on CC now to know where he is going with this -- salvation by faith and works yet man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) yet genuine faith is evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24)

Romans 16:26 - but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith. Also, in Romans 1:5, we read -p Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name.

Now although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.

*Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:2) not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/works.

See post #3 from the link below.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/believing-on-his-name.217972/#post-5447475

Like I said. Salvation by faith and works (with a heavy emphasis on water baptism).