“Invalidic Inspiration”

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NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
742
259
63
#1
The Lord’s desire for His people is not that they should be taken out of the world, but that they should be kept from the evil of it (though the Christian commits sin, God keeps them from ever desiring it - Phl 2:13—NC).

In John 15 we looked at as here for the Lord Jesus in three aspects. The first as servant—fruit bearing, this is our aspect to men, as He says of Himself. “My goodness extendeth not to Thee but to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all My delight” (Ps 16:2, 3).

You are to be a fruit tree, bearing ripe fruit, properly for the owner of the garden, but in reality for every one whom He had ordered to be supplied. Whatever you supply of Christ to anyone as ordered by Him is fruit. You are a fruit tree for everyone to derive from you something of Christ as He appoints.

The second aspect is that of a friend to Himself. You are to prove to Him that His concerns are your chief interest, and thus you are His friend—“he was called the Friend of God” (Jam 2:23).

The third is a witness. This aspect is not necessary for man, but it is against the world. You are maintaining Christ where He has been rejected, and thus encountering opposition from the world. The first is that of a donor of Christ’s grace to man; the second that of a heart living in His heart; the third that of a soldier of martyr, standing boldly for Him is refused and hated.

All these factors belong to you as kept is this scene for Him. You might say, your health hinders you very much. But doubtless crippling you in your health is the means by which the Lord is keeping you for Himself. In each of these aspects there is an order of suffering that is keeping with its peculiar duty or place.

The tree passes though winter before it bears fruit. The friend is tested before he is an established friend, and the witness is persecuted to prove that he is a faithful witness. I compare you to a singing bird in a cage. If you were released, you might turn to your native woods, and your song would be lost in the desert air.

Your liberty is limited to your health, but you may sing all the live-long day—and maybe night too. Singing is what you are called to do, “making melody in your heart to Lord” (Eph 5:19). Thus it is always summer, the fruit season; happy and abounding in your heart, before you are able to contribute to others. May we all abound yet more and more.


—J B Stoney (1814-1897








MJS daily devotional excerpt for March 19

“Just think! Our Father has placed us in eternal and living union with His Son, that He, not we, may “be.”

“Moreover, He has placed His Holy Spirit eternally within us that He, not we, may “do.” Further, He has given us the necessary faith and Scripture that we may rest in this wonderful reality, trusting Him “to will and to do of His good pleasure.” This is a far cry from futile struggle and frustrating self-effort!
“Christians in the main groan and strive and struggle largely on the basis of human effort where the grace of God, though acknowledged, is scarcely operative—only to come to grief. Even at their best, they find the purpose of the Lord Jesus remains an ideal infinitely beyond their reach. The trouble lies in the fact that they are proceeding on the wrong basis.

“God does not expect them, as a result of their own endeavors, to be like the Lord Jesus. He expects them to realize the utter impossibility of such a thing (as in Romans Seven, where Paul comes to the end of himself – Gal 2:20; Col3:4). He expects them to know the Lord Jesus as their very life, disowning any other. He expects them to realize their position of absolute oneness with Christ, for He ‘has blessed them with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ’ (Eph. 1:3).” -F.J.H.
http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
28,628
10,208
113
#2
The Lord’s desire for His people is not that they should be taken out of the world, but that they should be kept from the evil of it (though the Christian commits sin, God keeps them from ever desiring it - Phl 2:13—NC).
That Bible translation is nuttier than The Message version. I just checked that verse in my Bible and it doesn't say anything at all like that.

Good thing too. If God kept us from ever desiring sin after we were born again, temptation would not only be pointless, it would not exist at all. And there is a whole lot of the Bible that proves temptation does in fact exist for believers.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,919
3,613
113
Frankston, Victoria
christianlife.au
#3
The Lord’s desire for His people is not that they should be taken out of the world, but that they should be kept from the evil of it (though the Christian commits sin, God keeps them from ever desiring it - Phl 2:13—NC).

In John 15 we looked at as here for the Lord Jesus in three aspects. The first as servant—fruit bearing, this is our aspect to men, as He says of Himself. “My goodness extendeth not to Thee but to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all My delight” (Ps 16:2, 3).

You are to be a fruit tree, bearing ripe fruit, properly for the owner of the garden, but in reality for every one whom He had ordered to be supplied. Whatever you supply of Christ to anyone as ordered by Him is fruit. You are a fruit tree for everyone to derive from you something of Christ as He appoints.

The second aspect is that of a friend to Himself. You are to prove to Him that His concerns are your chief interest, and thus you are His friend—“he was called the Friend of God” (Jam 2:23).

The third is a witness. This aspect is not necessary for man, but it is against the world. You are maintaining Christ where He has been rejected, and thus encountering opposition from the world. The first is that of a donor of Christ’s grace to man; the second that of a heart living in His heart; the third that of a soldier of martyr, standing boldly for Him is refused and hated.

All these factors belong to you as kept is this scene for Him. You might say, your health hinders you very much. But doubtless crippling you in your health is the means by which the Lord is keeping you for Himself. In each of these aspects there is an order of suffering that is keeping with its peculiar duty or place.

The tree passes though winter before it bears fruit. The friend is tested before he is an established friend, and the witness is persecuted to prove that he is a faithful witness. I compare you to a singing bird in a cage. If you were released, you might turn to your native woods, and your song would be lost in the desert air.

Your liberty is limited to your health, but you may sing all the live-long day—and maybe night too. Singing is what you are called to do, “making melody in your heart to Lord” (Eph 5:19). Thus it is always summer, the fruit season; happy and abounding in your heart, before you are able to contribute to others. May we all abound yet more and more.


—J B Stoney (1814-1897







MJS daily devotional excerpt for March 19

“Just think! Our Father has placed us in eternal and living union with His Son, that He, not we, may “be.”

“Moreover, He has placed His Holy Spirit eternally within us that He, not we, may “do.” Further, He has given us the necessary faith and Scripture that we may rest in this wonderful reality, trusting Him “to will and to do of His good pleasure.” This is a far cry from futile struggle and frustrating self-effort!
“Christians in the main groan and strive and struggle largely on the basis of human effort where the grace of God, though acknowledged, is scarcely operative—only to come to grief. Even at their best, they find the purpose of the Lord Jesus remains an ideal infinitely beyond their reach. The trouble lies in the fact that they are proceeding on the wrong basis.

“God does not expect them, as a result of their own endeavors, to be like the Lord Jesus. He expects them to realize the utter impossibility of such a thing (as in Romans Seven, where Paul comes to the end of himself – Gal 2:20; Col3:4). He expects them to know the Lord Jesus as their very life, disowning any other. He expects them to realize their position of absolute oneness with Christ, for He ‘has blessed them with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ’ (Eph. 1:3).” -F.J.H.
http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/
What on earth does "invalidic' mean by the way?
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
28,628
10,208
113
#5
I assumed it was inspiration for invalids, or those who thought they were invalids.
 

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
742
259
63
#6
That Bible translation is nuttier than The Message version. I just checked that verse in my Bible and it doesn't say anything at all like that.

Good thing too. If God kept us from ever desiring sin after we were born again, temptation would not only be pointless, it would not exist at all. And there is a whole lot of the Bible that proves temptation does in fact exist for believers.
The sins of the saints aren't intentional or willful, which answers to why Scripture never relates a Christian as a sinner. Believers aren't considered sinners ( Heb 10:26; 1Pe 4:18). A sinner is one who willfully sins!
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
28,628
10,208
113
#7
The sins of the saints aren't intentional or willful, which answers to why Scripture never relates a Christian as a sinner. Believers aren't considered sinners ( Heb 10:26; 1Pe 4:18). A sinner is one who willfully sins!
If somebody used to be an alcoholic before becoming a Christian, and after becoming a Christian has one night where he just gets wasted, was that not intentional? Did the alcohol sneak down his throat? Or is he not really a saint?

Because I know some who have done exactly that. It doesn't mean they are not Christians, but it also doesn't mean they did it accidentally.
 

ocean

Active member
Oct 15, 2024
295
125
43
#8
Well yeah sins can be willful after becoming a Christian. Continuing in them is another story. The Bible does explain God does not see us as sinners, not meaning we will never sin again. John tells us we have an advocate and if we do sin, we deal with it and move on.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I John 1:9

When Hebrews mentions 'deliberately continuing in sin' it means a lifestyle as though we were never saved. Nowhere in scripture do we come across the idea we are now sinless or will never sin again BUT because of Jesus taking our place, we are not judged as sinners, but forgiven. Jesus was judged in our place.

I'm guessing you know all that. :)
 

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
742
259
63
#9
If somebody used to be an alcoholic before becoming a Christian, and after becoming a Christian has one night where he just gets wasted, was that not intentional? Did the alcohol sneak down his throat? Or is he not really a saint?

Because I know some who have done exactly that. It doesn't mean they are not Christians, but it also doesn't mean they did it accidentally.
I believe if one is a Christian, God would eventually lead him from the sins of alcoholism. If one never stops sinning willfully it shows he wasn't reborn, because everyone who is reborn has all that is needed to live for the Lord Jesus (1Co 5:11) instead of self.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
28,628
10,208
113
#10
Well yeah sins can be willful after becoming a Christian. Continuing in them is another story. The Bible does explain God does not see us as sinners, not meaning we will never sin again. John tells us we have an advocate and if we do sin, we deal with it and move on.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I John 1:9

When Hebrews mentions 'deliberately continuing in sin' it means a lifestyle as though we were never saved. Nowhere in scripture do we come across the idea we are now sinless or will never sin again BUT because of Jesus taking our place, we are not judged as sinners, but forgiven. Jesus was judged in our place.

I'm guessing you know all that. :)
I am aware. I'm just not sure the OP is aware. The way that first verse he quoted is worded, that goes directly against all experience and a lot of what the Bible says. I don't think I would trust that translation.

If you tell a new Christian that God keeps his people from desiring sin, the first time a new Christian experiences temptation he will fall because he will believe he is not really a Christian after all.
 

ocean

Active member
Oct 15, 2024
295
125
43
#11
I am aware. I'm just not sure the OP is aware. The way that first verse he quoted is worded, that goes directly against all experience and a lot of what the Bible says. I don't think I would trust that translation.

If you tell a new Christian that God keeps his people from desiring sin, the first time a new Christian experiences temptation he will fall because he will believe he is not really a Christian after all.
I almost wrote a post similar to yours actually. I guess the only person who can clarify regarding the concerns raised, would be the op himself.
 

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
742
259
63
#12
I am aware. I'm just not sure the OP is aware. The way that first verse he quoted is worded, that goes directly against all experience and a lot of what the Bible says. I don't think I would trust that translation.

If you tell a new Christian that God keeps his people from desiring sin, the first time a new Christian experiences temptation he will fall because he will believe he is not really a Christian after all.
I know what you mean, but if he is truly a Christian God will eventually lead him from every wrong he encounters, because of Phil 2:13, as we all continue to encounter, until He comes!