Understanding God’s election

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
63,217
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Psalm 5 verses 4-6 ~ You are not a God Who delights in wickedness; no evil can dwell with You.
The boastful cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all workers of iniquity. You destroy those who tell lies; the LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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Psalm 5 verses 4-6 ~ You are not a God Who delights in wickedness; no evil can dwell with You.
The boastful cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all workers of iniquity. You destroy those who tell lies; the LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.
You "love"; God hates.
The god of this world has made you blind to this irony/contradiction.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
63,217
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Projection.
I do not claim to love everyone like I should,
but at least I do not sign off with Love, GWH
while saying God hates humanity.
More of your lies. i did not say God hates humanity.

Try getting honest for a change.

Yeah, what you do is tell me I should behave a certain way while you do the opposite.

Your hypocrisy is disgusting. And blatantly obvious.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
63,217
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but at least I do not sign off with Love, GWH
You are being really ridiculous and petty, to complain about how I sign my designs
and then act all high and mighty as if it means what you want to pretend. You
don't like Scripture, either. I get it. Too bad. Go project your hatred elsewhere.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
4,212
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Not much I can do for you. IMO you're importing language "true spiritual faith of the heart" into the Text. Everyone can believe. The issue is what they choose to believe and Who they choose to believe.

ESV John20:29-31 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." 30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

This entire document written by John of signs Jesus did was written so unbelieving men who have not seen Jesus could believe that Jesus is [YWHW''] Christ, the Son of God and thereby have eternal life.

Some will choose to believe and some will not. In the end of it all, it's really that simple.

Receiving "true spiritual faith of the heart" so a man can believe is made up and a myth.
Yeah, I'm done with this discussion too

[Luk 6:45 KJV] 45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

[Luk 8:15 KJV] 15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep [it], and bring forth fruit with patience.

[Rom 2:5 KJV] 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

[Rom 5:5 KJV] 5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

[Rom 2:29 KJV] 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

[Rom 10:8-10 KJV]
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

[Heb 8:9-12 KJV]
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, ands write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

[Heb 10:22 KJV] 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

[Act 7:51 KJV] 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.

[Act 15:8-9 KJV]
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

[Mat 15:18 KJV] 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

[2Co 4:6 KJV] 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
2,559
559
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Yeah, I'm done with this discussion too

[Luk 6:45 KJV] 45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

[Luk 8:15 KJV] 15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep [it], and bring forth fruit with patience.

[Rom 2:5 KJV] 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

[Rom 5:5 KJV] 5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

[Rom 2:29 KJV] 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

[Rom 10:8-10 KJV]
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

[Heb 8:9-12 KJV]
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, ands write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

[Heb 10:22 KJV] 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

[Act 7:51 KJV] 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.

[Act 15:8-9 KJV]
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

[Mat 15:18 KJV] 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

[2Co 4:6 KJV] 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
OK.

Not one of those verses say, "Receiving true spiritual faith of the heart so a man can believe".

Proof texting apart from explaining is quite the practice in our day. You have not explained one verse to show how it supports your premise. Not one.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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OK.

Not one of those verses say, "Receiving true spiritual faith of the heart so a man can believe".

Proof texting apart from explaining is quite the practice in our day. You have not explained one verse to show how it supports your premise. Not one.
That's the standard let's shift the burden type of reply that you FW types typically employ. The verses do not need explanation beyond what is already there. I certainly am not going to go through them to explain them to you, and you're definitely more than smart enough to figure them out.

Anyway, at this point I think we've pretty much aired-out our perceptions regarding faith so I'm out.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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More of your lies. i did not say God hates humanity.

Try getting honest for a change.

Yeah, what you do is tell me I should behave a certain way while you do the opposite.

Your hypocrisy is disgusting. And blatantly obvious.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,547
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It is truly by grace that God accounts our faith as righteousness. But it's not just faith, because everyone deposits the measure they've been given in one thing or another, seeing the evidence of faith in all the false doctrines. So, it must be a righteous faith, in order to count as righteousness, and it is apparent that not everyone can even accept genuine righteousness and dress up in their own rags.
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
2,559
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That's the standard let's shift the burden type of reply that you FW types typically employ. The verses do not need explanation beyond what is already there. I certainly am not going to go through them to explain them to you, and you're definitely more than smart enough to figure them out.

Anyway, at this point I think we've pretty much aired-out our perceptions regarding faith so I'm out.
Normally when someone posts a verse to make a point it's up to them to explain it. Maybe it's just a burden of proof you cannot carry, So, out comes the fallacious argumentation to shift responsibility.

How about explaining how just one of those Scriptures substantiates your point?
 
Jul 3, 2015
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Ephesians 4 verses 17-18; Luke 6 verse 43; Jeremiah 10 verse 14 In the futility of their thinking, unbelievers are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. A diseased tree cannot bear good fruit. Every man is senseless and devoid of knowledge.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
4,212
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Normally when someone posts a verse to make a point it's up to them to explain it. Maybe it's just a burden of proof you cannot carry, So, out comes the fallacious argumentation to shift responsibility.

How about explaining how just one of those Scriptures substantiates your point?
How about you figure them out - they are self- evident, basic, uncomplicated, and purposefully so, so I can't see why you would have any questions about their meaning, unless, that is, you need me to go back and explain to you the fundamental doctrines of the gospel. How about for starters, you figure out just one - and if you do, then go on to another - it just might do you a world of good - plus, you really shouldn't require my assistance, after all, they are directly from the Bible.
It's not my responsibility to teach you what you should already know or can research on your own, given that a certain level of expertise on your part is assumed in that you chose to partake in a thread like this one - all you need do is read those verses and think about what you're reading - simple.
 
Jul 3, 2015
63,217
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How about you figure them out - they are self- evident, basic, uncomplicated, and purposefully so, so I can't see why you would have any questions about their meaning, unless, that is, you need me to go back and explain to you the fundamental doctrines of the gospel. How about for starters, you figure out just one - and if you do, then go on to another - it just might do you a world of good - plus, you really shouldn't require my assistance, after all, they are directly from the Bible.
It's not my responsibility to teach you what you should already know or can research on your own, given that a certain level of expertise on your part is assumed in that you chose to partake in a thread like this one - all you need do is read those verses and think about what you're reading - simple.
Those who belong to the portion of posters who believe a bad tree can bring forth good fruit will rarely admit that plainly spoken Scriptures mean exactly what they say. No, they must twist the meanings and pretend the plain words say something different. If they were to acknowledge what is plainly spoken, their whole house of cards theology would crumble. They cannot allow that.
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
2,559
559
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How about you figure them out - they are self- evident, basic, uncomplicated, and purposefully so, so I can't see why you would have any questions about their meaning, unless, that is, you need me to go back and explain to you the fundamental doctrines of the gospel. How about for starters, you figure out just one - and if you do, then go on to another - it just might do you a world of good - plus, you really shouldn't require my assistance, after all, they are directly from the Bible.
It's not my responsibility to teach you what you should already know or can research on your own, given that a certain level of expertise on your part is assumed in that you chose to partake in a thread like this one - all you need do is read those verses and think about what you're reading - simple.
The wordy issue on your part, which is very obvious, is that you can't explain how those verses substantiate your insertion.

There's not one of those verses that I'm not familiar with and think they do not support your insertion. There are a few that will get interesting, but I don't think you have the wherewithal to get into them.

I doubt you can teach me anything, but I'm willing to listen and find out.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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They all had different priorities and insecurities. Some had priorities and insecurities that resonated with the gospel as presented, and others did not.
Asked and answered several times correctly I might add, but somehow this question is regarded as only answerable according to one school of thought and therefore we must adopt the "calvinist" solution.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
4,212
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The wordy issue on your part, which is very obvious, is that you can't explain how those verses substantiate your insertion.

There's not one of those verses that I'm not familiar with and think they do not support your insertion. There are a few that will get interesting, but I don't think you have the wherewithal to get into them.

I doubt you can teach me anything, but I'm willing to listen and find out.
Think what you like, your opinion is not significant to me. You may have read those verses in the past, but that doesn't mean you actually comprehended them. That you are unable to relate them back to the part of your 11,127 that I referenced, says it all.
I don't plan on making this discussion a career like the one you had with @Rufus that went on for months.
You seem to be a stalker. Guess I'll be placing you on ignore.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
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You "love"; God hates.
The god of this world has made you blind to this irony/contradiction.
I agree. After salvation, we are commanded to love our enemies. To forgive. To have Grace and mercy. To have compassion on all. To be fair and Just to all.......To be more like God.

Calvies god~~~Do as I say, not as I do.