Pre or post Adam
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Adam was not perfect my friend. None of God's creation was made perfect. It was good and very good as the scriptures state.
Adam's vow to eve ....this is bone of my bone. Flesh of my flesh. Are you saying flesh and bone is perfect?
To think about it if you say creation was made perfect then you are saying that Satan can corrupt and destroy God's perfect plan which means he's more powerful than God.
There is only one that is perfect that is God.
The redemption and salvation of mankind were determined and agreed upon before the foundations of the earth which means that God knew the fall would take place. He wasn't surprised.
Adam's vow to eve ....this is bone of my bone. Flesh of my flesh. Are you saying flesh and bone is perfect?
To think about it if you say creation was made perfect then you are saying that Satan can corrupt and destroy God's perfect plan which means he's more powerful than God.
There is only one that is perfect that is God.
The redemption and salvation of mankind were determined and agreed upon before the foundations of the earth which means that God knew the fall would take place. He wasn't surprised.
The scriptures tell us God's creation was very good not perfect.
Jesus was and is perfect, he remained sinless in spite of temptation. Adam did not.
Question for you....could God or would God duplicate himself? Adam willfully sinned.
I have had this discussion many times but you argue with what scripture says very clearly good and very good.
All creation points to Jesus the perfect one, all have sinned and come short except one...Jesus.
All sin originated from Adam. Adam willfully disobey God. He chose to. He wasn't tempted as eve was.
You can discern perfect to what ever you want but the truth remains with scripture...good and very good.
Jesus was and is perfect, he remained sinless in spite of temptation. Adam did not.
Question for you....could God or would God duplicate himself? Adam willfully sinned.
I have had this discussion many times but you argue with what scripture says very clearly good and very good.
All creation points to Jesus the perfect one, all have sinned and come short except one...Jesus.
All sin originated from Adam. Adam willfully disobey God. He chose to. He wasn't tempted as eve was.
You can discern perfect to what ever you want but the truth remains with scripture...good and very good.
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus,
after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you." 1 Peter 5:10
The spiritually mature are very good, as well.
But, they are not perfect.
Learn to know the sense of how the word was being used.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof,
for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect,
thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Character changes
It is seen today
Change....
The more I practice sin the more it becomes part me.
Habits become Character.
A Perfect nature is what Adam had. It was perfect because sin had not had any part in corrupting the desires of the flesh.
Sin isn't having a corrupted nature.. sin is giving in to the corrupted nature.
Like temptation, it is not a sin to be tempted.
Jesus came in sinful flesh but never gave in to sin
Jesus was perfect and righteous in every choice He made. But His nature was corrupted like yours and mine.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
It is seen today
Change....
The more I practice sin the more it becomes part me.
Habits become Character.
A Perfect nature is what Adam had. It was perfect because sin had not had any part in corrupting the desires of the flesh.
Sin isn't having a corrupted nature.. sin is giving in to the corrupted nature.
Like temptation, it is not a sin to be tempted.
Jesus came in sinful flesh but never gave in to sin
Jesus was perfect and righteous in every choice He made. But His nature was corrupted like yours and mine.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
The old testament is all about Jesus.
Jacob's ladder 🪜 came down from heaven.
The ladder is Jesus. It represents the way Jesus connects Heaven and Earth
The divine and the human.
How does Jesus connect sinful man with righteous heaven?
He became like us in every way except sin.
Heb 2:9-11
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 2:16-18
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
From the verses above
Jesus was made like us, became like us so that He could connect with us.
Jacob's ladder 🪜 came down from heaven.
The ladder is Jesus. It represents the way Jesus connects Heaven and Earth
The divine and the human.
How does Jesus connect sinful man with righteous heaven?
He became like us in every way except sin.
Heb 2:9-11
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 2:16-18
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
From the verses above
Jesus was made like us, became like us so that He could connect with us.
Jesus was to be like a sacrificial lamb -
Had to be without spot or blemish.
It was required by Law.
Having spot or blemish? = having a sin nature.
Without spot or blemish? = no sin nature!
Jesus was the Lamb of God that took away the sins of the world.
He could have no sin nature like Adam had after he fell.
Why is this so difficult for some?
They need to stop living according to their emotions = the flesh.
In Christ.......
Had to be without spot or blemish.
It was required by Law.
Having spot or blemish? = having a sin nature.
Without spot or blemish? = no sin nature!
Jesus was the Lamb of God that took away the sins of the world.
He could have no sin nature like Adam had after he fell.
Why is this so difficult for some?
They need to stop living according to their emotions = the flesh.
In Christ.......
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Why ?? Because the bible states that Jesus came in our likeness...
Rom 8:3 ....God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
He was without spot because He did not sin. Sinless by choice.
But His nature was like ours.
The sinful nature doesn't = sin, it doesn't make a spot or blemish on the character until we allow it to.
When you give in to the sinful nature your guilty and your stained with sin.
Jesus did not allow the flesh to control Him. He was perfect by choice.
The sinful nature never contaminated His actions or words.
Sin is a choice.
Rom 8:3 ....God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
He was without spot because He did not sin. Sinless by choice.
But His nature was like ours.
The sinful nature doesn't = sin, it doesn't make a spot or blemish on the character until we allow it to.
When you give in to the sinful nature your guilty and your stained with sin.
Jesus did not allow the flesh to control Him. He was perfect by choice.
The sinful nature never contaminated His actions or words.
Sin is a choice.
Having spot or blemish = sin.
Sin is the transgression of the law.
Sin is a choice.
Sin is to choose to disobey the Father.
Sin is to choose to do wrong.
Having a nature that is fallen or a flesh that desires sin is not a sin.
If your flesh desires to sin but you choose not to follow the flesh but follow the Spirit, have you sinned?
If you are tempted to sin by the fallen flesh but choose to do what is right, is that a sin?
Sin is the transgression of the law.
Sin is a choice.
Sin is to choose to disobey the Father.
Sin is to choose to do wrong.
Having a nature that is fallen or a flesh that desires sin is not a sin.
If your flesh desires to sin but you choose not to follow the flesh but follow the Spirit, have you sinned?
If you are tempted to sin by the fallen flesh but choose to do what is right, is that a sin?
I see. All of creation except man himself was adversely affected by Adam's disobedience. 
The "serpent"
The Ground
AND most importantly Adam's "DOMINION" was passed to satan, resulting in satan being "The god of this world, and "the prince of the realm of authority bounded by the atmospheric limits"
Man was effected in that he became a HELL BOUND SINNER instead of an innocent.
HUMAN NATURE never changed even in Jesus' case. It's on record (Heb 4:15) that Jesus was TEMPTED (Led away by HIS OWN LUST, and ENTICED - Jas 1:14), but unlike US Jesus never allowed the temptation to "CONCEIVE" and result in sinful acts.
"THEOLOGIANS" like to talk about Adam's "Change of nature", but while Adam's CIRCUMSTANCES changed, his "HUMAN NATURE" never did.
And yet we are by nature children of wrath, inherited from Adam, the direct result of the fall/Adam's sin.
If Adam's nature did not change post disobedience, that would mean he was already by nature a child of wrath before he sinned.
And that just does not add up for me.
He also changed in becoming aware of his nakedness, having lost God's covering. Before sinning, nakedness was not an issue.
One could postulate that much of the Bible concerns itself with how God covers man's sins.
I mean really the whole Bible is about God's plan of redemption for mankind through the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ.
The fact that mankind even needs redemption... Yes, Jesus was purposed before the
foundation of the world because He was not a back-up plan... God knew man would sin.
Adam was seen as good, and then very good after Eve was made, but after that, after their disobedience, none are good.
Psalm 14:1-3; Job 15:16 ~ The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt; their acts are vile. There is no one who does good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the sons of men to see if any understand, if any seek God. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. Man is vile and corrupt.
If Adam's nature did not change post disobedience, that would mean he was already by nature a child of wrath before he sinned.
And that just does not add up for me.
He also changed in becoming aware of his nakedness, having lost God's covering. Before sinning, nakedness was not an issue.
One could postulate that much of the Bible concerns itself with how God covers man's sins.
I mean really the whole Bible is about God's plan of redemption for mankind through the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ.
The fact that mankind even needs redemption... Yes, Jesus was purposed before the
foundation of the world because He was not a back-up plan... God knew man would sin.
Adam was seen as good, and then very good after Eve was made, but after that, after their disobedience, none are good.
Psalm 14:1-3; Job 15:16 ~ The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt; their acts are vile. There is no one who does good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the sons of men to see if any understand, if any seek God. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. Man is vile and corrupt.
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