everything is predestined?

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CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Do you agree that God has the power and authority place limitations on what He will allow Himself to do in any particular world He created.
NO, that is an oxymoron. God's divine Nature is Unlimited There are none on GOD the Creator. God placed HIS word above HIS name therefore it is in that HE has chosen to do or not do. He can change is mind and increase or decree HIS word.
 

PaulThomson

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NO, that is an oxymoron. God's divine Nature is Unlimited There are none on GOD the Creator. God placed HIS word above HIS name therefore it is in that HE has chosen to do or not do. He can change is mind and increase or decree HIS word.
So, God has no self-control? He cannot willingly restrict His own options in a world He created?
 

DeanM

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God is true to his word. He has kept to the covenant(s) even tho Israel broke their end of the bargain time and again. Twice, that I recall, He was going to destroy Israel and make a new covenant with Moses but Moses pleaded with him not to. God is not limited but does choose to be forgiving at times. I look to modern man for an example of how forgiving God is. How many times has He forgiven you and me?
 

CS1

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Magenta

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Proverbs 19 verse 21 Jeremiah 10 verse 23b ~ Many plans are in a man’s heart, but the purpose of the LORD will prevail. No one who walks directs his own steps.
 

CS1

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Are you serious? I don't think you are, maybe trolling.

The context of the word restrict is: to put a limit on, to deprive. You are suggesting God has limits, but he has none. God has Standards that sets Him apart (Holy) and above all others. That is not a limitation.
 

PaulThomson

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The context of the word restrict is: to put a limit on, to deprive. You are suggesting God has limits, but he has none. God has Standards that sets Him apart (Holy) and above all others. That is not a limitation.
God promised to overthrow satan through the seed of Eve.. After making that promise, could Jesus have not come to earth as Saviour? Yes, He could. He is God. He can do what He likes. But He willingly limited Himself to keeping that promise because He loves His creatures and He loves truth.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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God promised to overthrow satan through the seed of Eve.. After making that promise, could Jesus not have come to earth as Saviour? Yes, He could. He is God. He can do what He likes. But He willingly limited Himself to keeping that promise because He loves His creatures and He loves truth.
I am sorry you have a doctrinal dilemma, and you are mistaken. First, God keeps His word, as God prophesied in Genesis 3:15. If you are speaking of the doctrine known as Kenosis, which is willful limitation of oneself. Then you were not very clear on that point.


"Do you agree that God has the power and authority place limitations on what He will allow Himself to do in any particular world He created."

The Son of God, the third person of the Trinity, came in the likeness of fallen man yet without sin. Jesus humbled Himself. Jesus said No one take my life, I have the power to lay it down and the Power to take it back again. That is not a limitation, that is Meekness Power under control. A limitation would be that Jesus was killed on the cross and he could not be resurrected. The physical body of Jesus was limited before the Resurrection. He slept, ate, got tired, etc.. That is the body limitation Not God's
 

Hakawaka

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Jul 1, 2021
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Then is He actually all knowing?

Is it possible for God through the creation of all things and through the limitations He places on them to know everything that will occur?

PaulThomson said:
God knows all things that are true. He does not know all nothings: all things that are not true. In the present, the future is comprised of nothings that are not presently true. In the present, God knows the future as it is in the present, which is that it does not yet exist to be known. God can calculate probabilities re the future. But probabilities are not certainties. God can devise intentions for the future. But He does not need to devise intentions for every detail of every anticipated future moment.



According to the Bible God is the creator of all things. If evil is a thing, does that make Him the Creator of all evil? So why would knowing all things have to include knowing even things that are not real? If I place some limitations on what my children can do, will I be able to predict everything my children will do? Why would God placing some limitations on creatures imply he must therefore be able to predict everything they will do?

God could choose to create a world in which every creature has no freedom to do anything other than what happens by an absolutely rigid law of cause and effect which He can predict flawlessly. God, having the power to do whatever He chooses to do, could do whatever He wants. However, the Bible does not describe God creating such a world.
Bro:

How did God choose Paul while he was still a sinner if He didnt know that Paul was gonna repent? How did God know Jeremiah before He was formed in the womb.

Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”
 

PaulThomson

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Bro:

How did God choose Paul while he was still a sinner if He didnt know that Paul was gonna repent? How did God know Jeremiah before He was formed in the womb.

Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”
I have looked at the word translated as "before" in that text (בְּטֶרֶם B-TeReM ) and at the other places it is used in the old testament. It does not appear to mean "before" but rather " while yet" when used with an imperfect Hebrew verb form and "just as" when used with a perfect Hebrew verb form.

Gen 2:5 While no bush of the field[fn] was existing (YiHYeH, Qal imperfect) yet (TeReM) in the land[fn] and no small plant of the field [was yet] springing up (qal imperfect) —for the LORD God had not caused it to rain (Hiphil perfect) on the land, and there was no man to work the ground...

Gen 19:4 But while yet they were lying down (YiShKaBU, Qal imperfect , the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded (Niphal perfect) the house.

Gen 24:15 While he was finishing (piel imperfect) to speak (niphsl infinitive), behold, Rebekah, who was born to Bethuel the son of Milcah, the wife of Nahor, Abraham’s brother, came out with her water jar on her shoulder.

Gen 24:45 “While (TeReM) I was yet finishing ("aKaLeH, piel imperfect) to speak (piel infinitive) in my heart, behold, Rebekah came out with her water jar on her shoulder, and she went down to the spring and drew water. I said to her, ‘Please let me drink.’

Gen 27:4
and prepare for me delicious food, such as I love, and bring it to me so that I may eat, that my soul may bless you while as yet (B-TeReM) I am dying ("aMUT, qal imperfect) .” and so on...

So, I think Jer. 1:5 is more correctly understood as saying -

Jer 1:5While as yet (B:TeReM) I was forming you ('eTsaR-Ka, Qal imperfect + you) in the womb I knew you (YDaThiY-Ka, Qal perfect)
and while as yet (W-B-TeReM) you were coming out (YeTse', Qal imperfect) I consecrated you (HiQDaShTiY-Ka, Hiphal perfect);
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

So, the question of how God knew Jeremiah before he was formed in the womb, is answered from the correct parsing of the Hebrew of the verse. God knew Jeremiah intimately and in detail, even neing a witness to Jeremiah's formation in the womb, and while he was passing through the birth canal.

God chooses every person born into the world. He wants every human being as a son or daughter. But not all appreciate God and put their trust in Him. So Saul, like all of us, was chosen from conception.