GOD WANTS EVERYONE TO BE SAVED

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Apr 22, 2013
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God gives every ability including MFW: whether to choose life or death (Deut.30:19),
whether to seek salvation or ignore GW (Matt.7:7, 23:37), and whether to believe in Jesus as Lord
or be anti-Christ (John8:42-47).
I don't know what a "MFW" is, but I DO know if God gave saving faith to everyone, then everyone would be saved.

Why did YOU believe the Gospel when you heard it, and why do others reject it?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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If God isn't the One that Gifts us saving faith, then where does it come from?
by believing and hearing the word of God faith comes by hearing the word of God as the scriptures say
  • Romans 10:17:
    "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God".

  • Context:
 
Oct 19, 2024
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I don't know what a "MFW" is, but I DO know if God gave saving faith to everyone, then everyone would be saved.

Why did YOU believe the Gospel when you heard it, and why do others reject it?
MFW is the view/interpretation of Scripture opposed by TULIP.

I loved Christ because He first loved me.

I have pondered why some choose atheism and proposed:

the “Propensity Principle” (PP). The PP points out that humanity’s existential need and desire for eternal life and ultimate justice (the duo of desirables or DOD) make it logical for truthseekers to have a propensity to hope and believe a God who provides the DOD exists, to determine the most credible revelation of God’s requirement for attaining heaven, and to cooperate with His revealed will. IOW, it seems logical–given the existential facts of death and imperfect justice–that an unbiased truthseeker would have a propensity to hope the Christian view is correct, because there is no better (credible and desirable) way of attaining the DOD than NT theism. This PP restates Pascal’s wager in terms of comparison shopping (with all belief systems) instead of gambling.

The PP employs linear logic (rather than circular reasoning) to propose faith in the NT God as the best belief that solves the maze of reality as follows:

1. Current scientific knowledge cannot explain how the universe came to exist by means of natural causes, thus it is possible that the cause of the universe is a supernatural Creator/God.

2. The most creative species is humanity, whose traits also include language, moral conscience and God consciousness (personality), so it is possible that these human traits reflect attributes of a God who created humanity.

3. Existential reality indicates that humans are mortal and life is painful, but when life is happy, one wishes it would continue indefinitely. Thus, it is rational to seek ways to become immortal in a heavenly existence (where there is love and justice for all forever, the DOD).

4. Comparing all possible ways of achieving the DOD, the best or most credible way/hope is the God who resurrected Christ Jesus.

5. When words from God are sought, the NT teachings of Jesus and Paul seem to be the most highly inspired when compared with other scriptures (including the OT), because its concept of one God as the just and all-loving Judge (rationale for morality) is spiritually highest or most advanced, and the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus is most credible.

6. Thus, it is appropriate or wise to believe in the NT God and to accept Jesus as God’s Messiah.

Atheists deny the validity of this argument, but in the absence of disproof, the decision to reject the biblical gospel of salvation from selfishness, spiritual death, and a miserable destiny is illogical or foolish. This is why all truthseekers should agree on NT theism.

As someone has said, heaven is like a vision of water in the desert: the scoffer will surely die where he/she is, while the believer will live if right. Again, however, this analogy should be viewed in terms of comparison shopping and logic rather than of blind faith and fear. True love for God is evoked by His love for humanity and is a reflection of His loving Holy Spirit (1JN 4:7-12); it cannot be coerced, although it can be imitated (2CR 11:14 calls Satan an “angel of light”). Heaven may not be a mirage!
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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Sure, sister: but doesn't that LOVE equate to our FAITH in HIM? Sorry, I'm not meaning to go against you.
There is a doctrine which asserts that God chooses to whom He gifts faith after He has chosen the people He decides to regenerate.

In this doctrine regeneration precedes faith since man is born completely incapable of responding to the power and truth of the Gospel message.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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Romans 9:15-16 – "For He says to Moses: 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it does not depend on human desire or effort, but on God who shows mercy."
This is not about choosing only certain people to receive the Gospel of salvation.
Once again the verse is out of context.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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you do understand that believing is a verb correct? an active decision? so was it on your part that you believed or not?
Believing the Gospel is not having a part in your salvation, that is a loaded assertion.

It is an attempt to cloak their non biblical plan of salvation as more spiritual and disparage the real plan God set out conditioned on "belief/faith.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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Believing the Gospel is not having a part in your salvation, that is a loaded assertion.

It is an attempt to cloak their non biblical plan of salvation as more spiritual and disparage the real plan God set out conditioned on "belief/faith.
if we have no part in our salvation or rather more specifically if there is no free will to choose to accept our salvation then that would mean it is not up to us to believe and from what I understand that is what some believe. the believing is on us salvation is on Christ. however some believe that their believing was entirely because of God not because they chose to believe and that is what I was trying to get at.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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if we have no part in our salvation or rather more specifically if there is no free will to choose to accept our salvation then that would mean it is not up to us to believe and from what I understand that is what some believe. the believing is on us salvation is on Christ. however some believe that their believing was entirely because of God not because they chose to believe and that is what I was trying to get at.
If God sets the condition, the condition is "belief/faith" then it is not against the sovereignty of God since He sets it out.

Can a sovereign God choose to give his subjects a level of freedom in making their own decisions? Yes.

If He can’t then he isn’t really much of a sovereign God.

Also, why does God create a fallen nature that is incapable of believing His own plan of salvation, it really is completely non-nonsensical.

The Good News of Christ Jesus and his work is not what scripture is referring to when it speaks about understanding what is spiritual.

Christ Jesus was a real time event and what He accomplished can be understood and received when a person is given the accurate Good News.

The special gift of " inward gnosis" is not biblical. The Spirit of God works externally not internally until a person puts their trust in Christ Jesus and His work on our behalf.
 
Apr 22, 2013
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by believing and hearing the word of God faith comes by hearing the word of God as the scriptures say
  • Romans 10:17:
    "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God".

  • Context:
Yes it does.
But that doesn't explain WHERE the faith originated from.
Did YOU materialize yourself?

The words "cones by" is one Greek word:

Ek or Ex
Meaning: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.

So essentially, your faith was ACTIVATED by the hearing of the Word. God gave you the faith, you heard the Gospel, and the faith that GOD gave you was acted upon.

This is why some hear the Gospel and believe, while others hear and do not.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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People believe/have faith in various things and people day in and day out, but for some reason God has prohibited people from believing in what Christ Jesus did.

Yup that makes sense

Where does that faith come from? Maybe it comes from believing what God states is true.

God would have all believe, that is why faith is a condition and not a gift.
 
Apr 22, 2013
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I loved Christ because He first loved me.
So you believe because Jesus loved you first?

Does that mean the ones that DON'T believe, Jesus doesn't love? (like Esau).
the “Propensity Principle” (PP). The PP points out that humanity’s existential need and desire for eternal life and ultimate justice (the duo of desirables or DOD) make it logical for truthseekers to have a propensity to hope and believe a God who provides the DOD exists, to determine the most credible revelation of God’s requirement for attaining heaven, and to cooperate with His revealed will. IOW, it seems logical–given the existential facts of death and imperfect justice–that an unbiased truthseeker would have a propensity to hope the Christian view is correct, because there is no better (credible and desirable) way of attaining the DOD than NT theism. This PP restates Pascal’s wager in terms of comparison shopping (with all belief systems) instead of gambling.
I mean, all this boils down to you being smarter and more logical than those that reject the Gospel.

Your intellect had ZERO to do with your new birth.

The rest of your post is all apologetics, if they don't have the faith to believe.

Some that don't have faith may even be like King Agrppa
28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian.”
 
Jul 3, 2015
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Since not all loe God in return, it would seen His love for us does not equate to faith
by believing and hearing the word of God faith comes by hearing the word of God as the scriptures say
  • Romans 10:17:
    "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God".
Faith comes by hearing, yes. It has already been established that not all hear.

Although it has also been mentioned that some go around saying the opposite of what Jesus did.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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So you believe because Jesus loved you first?

Does that mean the ones that DON'T believe, Jesus doesn't love? (like Esau).

I mean, all this boils down to you being smarter and more logical than those that reject the Gospel.

Your intellect had ZERO to do with your new birth.

The rest of your post is all apologetics, if they don't have the faith to believe.

Some that don't have faith may even be like King Agrppa
28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian.”
Yes, love = belief.

No, God/Jesus loves those who choose to hate/disbelieve.

Apparently you choose to disbelieve the PP, so you demean God's gift of logic/intellect.
 
Apr 22, 2013
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Yes, love = belief.
???
No, God/Jesus loves those who choose to hate/disbelieve.
God may get no pleasure in the destruction of those refusing His Son, but where does it say He loves the lost?

SPECIFIC to the lost.

Apparently you choose to disbelieve the PP, so you demean God's gift of logic/intellect.
I disbelieve manmade "systems". EVERY good thing we have is a gift from God, including our faith, but make NO mistake.
NO ONE. NOT ONE, will be born again from above by their intellect/logic.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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???

God may get no pleasure in the destruction of those refusing His Son, but where does it say He loves the lost?

SPECIFIC to the lost.

I disbelieve manmade "systems". EVERY good thing we have is a gift from God, including our faith, but make NO mistake.
NO ONE. NOT ONE, will be born again from above by their intellect/logic.
Re "God may get no pleasure in the destruction of those refusing His Son, but where does it say He loves the lost?":
You just answered your own question. (no pleasure = love)

Yes, every good gift is from God, but what God intends for good can be perverted or used for evil, including faith.
Make no mistake: your "disbelief"/opinion involves your intellect/logic.
 

jacko

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2024
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by believing and hearing the word of God faith comes by hearing the word of God as the scriptures say
  • Romans 10:17:
    "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God".

  • Context:
the "word" here is RHEMA.. not LOGOS... in the Greek big big difference.
 

jacko

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2024
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The word "Rhema" in the Bible refers to the spoken or revealed word of God. It comes from the Greek word ῥῆμα (rhēma), which means "that which is spoken" or "an utterance." In contrast to logos (which refers to the general, written Word of God), rhema often signifies a specific word from God that is spoken to an individual or a situation through the Holy Spirit.

Biblical Usage of Rhema:

  1. Matthew 4:4"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word (rhema) that proceeds from the mouth of God."
    • Here, rhema refers to God's directly spoken word that sustains believers.
  2. Romans 10:17"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word (rhema) of God."
    • This suggests that faith grows when we receive a specific, spoken revelation from God.
  3. Ephesians 6:17"Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word (rhema) of God."
    • The rhema is the spoken, active word of God, used as a weapon in spiritual battles.
Practical Meaning:

  • Rhema is often understood as a personal revelation from God through Scripture, prayer, or the Holy Spirit.
  • Many believers experience rhema when reading the Bible and a specific verse stands out, speaking directly to their situation.
  • It can also be a prophetic word or divine guidance for a particular moment.