Making a case for women in leadership

Hebrews 13:17 is a good passage that sums it up pretty well.... Elders/overseeres/teachers/pastors etc. Are given authority to correct others because they will be held responsible for the job they do.

I am allowed to discipline when teaching Children's Church because when they are in my care I am responsible for their safety and emotional & spiritual well-being. It doesn't make me "better" than the kids, and it certainly doesn't make them my servants..... I serve them by buying them snacks, thinking up fun games to go with their lessons, encouraging them, praying for them, etc. And guess who sweeps the floor after they return to their parents' care? Definitely not the kids lol. 😆

I do learn from them sometimes, but overall I know more about the Bible and how to grow in Christ than they do. I seriously doubt any of them will have to stand before God to give account for what they say in class....... But I will.

I believe that Peter was given authority to make judgements as to (say) continued application & interpretation of the Mosaic Law.
I believe that Peter exercised that authority in Acts, declaring all foods to be clean (lawful to eat).
I believe that Peter died, probably in 64AD.
I do not believe that Peter is still alive.
I believe Revelation was written after Peters death, and Jesus now holds the keys.

Peter was under the new covenant; not the old. He wasn't under the Mosaic law. He was a leader in the early church.

Revelation 1 verse 18

All good! But I would contrast that with say a Bishop offering an opinion on say contraception. I accept their right to have and freely express their views, tagged with their office (shepherds leading with their voice). However, personally, I do not feel that any church officer has any authority on those issues over me. They can inspire me, but they are my servants. I am not theirs.

Acts 10:14 "Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” NIV

I will clarify. Peter negated the dietary laws of the OT with immediate effect.
IMHO that is why he was given the keys.
After he died, Jesus took them back Revelation 1:18.

Oh OK, yes I get what you are saying, and I agree with you 😁.

I do think there are a few exceptions though. For instance, during youth group, one of the kids started presenting an impromptu demonology class clearly based off of Hollywood rather than the Bible. I had to tell him that his "facts" were not in the Bible and he needed to stop "teaching". Of course he is entitled to a whack view of demonology if he wants it, I can't tell him what to think but since I was chaperoning the event I had the "authority" to make him stop spreading it to the other kids.

I also think leaders have some authority over others beneath them in authority. I occasionally have a small glass of wine. I do not think it's biblically wrong for me personally, I don't have a weakness for alcohol and I've never been drunk. But if the youth pastor wanted me to stop drinking it since I'm on the youth ministry team, I would have to submit to his authority or quit the team (I'd definitely give up the wine!).

Anyways, just thoughts.... And I'm sure it's way more complicated for those who oversee an entire church rather than just a rowdy bunch of sassy but generally obedient youth haha 😄.

Jesus didn't give Peter the keys to death and hell. Jesus won those keys at the cross. He gave him authority over the church that was shortly to come into existence. He had the power to bind and loose. That's authority. You don't have to accept that there are leaders chosen by God to exercise authority over local churches, but He has. Neither do you have to submit to authority. But everyone is under authority. Jesus is no exception. Neither are any of us.

Back in post#220 I said " Personally, I am 100% confident looking Jesus in the eye and saying I accepted the administrative authority of that humble woman because I believed that the Holy Spirit was moving powerfully within her. So, help me God!"

So I am describing how I have zero problem with a woman "overseer" ordering church affairs, which in my context can mean that woman directing me to say open and operate an evacuation centre, or provide logistic support to bushfire fighters, or clean the dishes in the kitchen and take the trash out. This was the premise of this thread. A women's ability to perform that role (IMHO wonderfully thanks to the Holy Spirit). So, inspirational servant leadership. and I have accepted "administrative" authority. The other side was arguing that having a woman in an "overseers" role is unbiblical, and I pointed to the hypocrisy of making that argument IF they also accepted "overseers" who could live like Princes in Palaces, fleecing the sheep rather then feeding the sheep. So, here we are.
God bless you in your ministry.

Yes. But that is why much earlier I pointed out that Peter died, probably in 64AD.
Would you argue that Peter declared any bindings or loosing's after 64AD????

Alrighty, I think I get where you are coming from 🙂. It takes a very strong man to let a woman tell him to wash the dishes, I salute your servants heart and ability to recognize when the Holy Spirit is really the one in charge! 😎🏆

I didn't want to say too much, but occasionally the male leadership at church asks me to "organize" specific ministry projects. Usually a few men are among the volunteers on the team. Yes, I do have to tell them what to do. But since they knowingly volunteered to work with a female, I do not think it means I am usurping authority. I also take the (very limited) authority seriously, and try to let the Holy Spirit lead. I think it is a great testimony when God's children come together to do a project with Him. If He's really leading then nobody cares too much about titles and who does what... because we're all so enamored with watching Him operate!

Anyways....from your posts, it's clear that you already know all that haha 😉. God bless your efforts as well! 🙏

No argument that someone's authority dies with them. But do you believe that Peter alone was called by God to exercise authority?

I know that God also called on Judge Deborah to lead the Israelite army into battle, which implies authority, and authority over men.
So, yes, God has called others. But IMHO we are back to the teachings of Jesus, and Jesus AFAIK did not use the word authority for anyone other than Peter. And then Jesus describes the hard to understand concept of servant leadership, and then Jesus describes all believers as being equal, Jesus tells his followers to have no teacher other than Jesus, and to call no man Father. Wouldn't you agree with Jesus????

I'm just going to throw in a thought that I had lately when I read the title.
I'm not against career women, but know that nobody can do all things well. There are trade offs.

For instance, it's standard practice for parents to send their children to a day care/ nursery "school" and then kindergarten, etc.
How can a child learn from the parents, especially when they are wired to follow their mothers, when the mother is not in the picture until later in the day when she's tired?
She's spent all day tending to the needs of a strange(r) man with a name tag, CCTV, stressing to accomplish what the job demands only to get home late after quality time has been spent on others. Now you, your husband and children are tired and maybe irritable, need dinner and other demands before bed only to rush off again in the morning.

It seems like a normal child would become emotionally retarded.
Normal and appropriate habits, expressions, feelings aren't learned from equally deprived groups of children. Parental bonding is often lost from my observation. This is no sociology experiment, simply my observations. If God considers women in specific roles of leadership important, we must not forget the children.

The state has done everything it can to manipulate the institution of family/ marriage to conform to it's own desires. This makes it difficult, but not impossible to carry out a structure of life that is most pleasing and according to God's Word.
That alone takes strong leadership and spending time in the Word daily.
As a servant of the Lord, I want all men to lead their wives according to God's highest and best. That will be a blessing to everyone. Reality is that it's not the norm. You ladies have a challenge not only in your own walk with the Lord, but meekly encouraging your husbands to do so too.
We cannot change others, but only ourselves by habitual incorporation of Biblical helps. This will set up an environment that nurtures others in the family to do likewise.

Jesus didn't say don't have teachers. If you read Ephesians 4:11, He gave teachers to the church. Through Paul, He gave qualifications for those chosen to oversee the church. I'd share verses, but I don't get the feeling you would care.

Matthew 23:8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. NIV
Matthew 23:8 "But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. " NKJV
Note: Rabbi is the Hebrew word for teacher, and Mary Magdeleine addresses Jesus as "Rabboni" which is Aramaic for teacher.

Paul says Jesus gave teachers to the church for the edification of the church. Jesus ' command is against using titles pridefully to lord themselves above others, and not that God doesn't choose some to exercise authority.

How do you reconcile Matthew 23:8 with Ephesians 4:11?

First, I give primacy to the sayings of Jesus. Second, I understand that Jesus is saying the Jesus is the ultimate source of truth. Third, I accept that Jesus was occasionally a tad idealistic for this fallen world... Forth, I accept that Jesus does not seem to have the formal education that Saul did as a Pharisee at the feet of the famous Torah Teacher Gamaliel. Fifth, I see Paul being practical and bringing some elements of the Pharisee culture (formal education) into the Gentile Church. Note: Paul uses Pharisitic sayings on occasion "I pass on to you what I have received...".. So, for a beginner, the Church offers "teachers", but to the more advanced, the Church offers the Scripture, which includes the sayings of Jesus. So, I can lazily watch anyone preach (teach) in Church or on TV, but I diligently test it all against the sayings of Jesus.