The Error is Baptism in Jesus name only for salvation

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Wansvic

Wansvic

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#101
Pilgrimshope said:
first let me clarify a point of what I’m saying . I’m in no way saying “ if someone’s baptized by a pastor who doesn’t understand and says “ I baptize you on the name of the father son and Holy Ghost “ I personally don’t believe God is going to hold that against the person and act as if they didn’t get baptized . I wanted to make that clear on my position

but his name is his name that’s the point as Christian’s we’re supposed to recognize that Jesus is the one savior of the world.

when we say “ the father and the son “ we aren’t saying two names thier titles .

This is the name it’s very simple

“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It doesn’t say “ call his name “ authority “ it say Jesus because that’s the name Jesus isn’t a title meaning authority it’s a name.

Try this one in tbe ot it’s sayong the same thing contrarily

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We wouldt say I baptize you on the name of the wonderful counselor or the name of the prince of peace because those are titles the name spoken of is always singular speaking about “ him “ not “ them “

jesus is where God is fully manifest to mankind in one person bodily

abut to reiterate , I’m. It trying to say anyones baptism isn’t effective or anything because someone didn’t realize it’s saying baptize in his name . I don’t believe God is waiting for technicalities to disqualify people. If they repented and confessed the lord and meant the baptism I think he’ll accept it fine . But it’s just a fools opinion who doesn’t have authority to decide those things .

all I was trying to say is the name we’re baptized into in the scripture is not really a debate or question if one sticks to the scripture
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As uncomfortable as it may be, no matter how good intentioned a person may be does not change what's stated in God's word. However, God will lead those whose heart is set on Him to the truth. The account of Cornelius is a perfect example. (Acts 10:22-48) And as seen many times in scripture, God sent people to those who were unaware they needed further information and/or instruction, one example is found in Acts 19. In each of the cases, the people humbled themselves and accepted God's leading to the saving of their souls.

I'm reminded of Jesus' words, those who hunger and thirst after righteousness will be filled. And that those who seek will find...The question is will those who have been led accept or reject what they've been shown?
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Cameron143 said:
Being baptized WITH the Spirit is not the indwelling of the Spirit. That is an outward expression of the Spirit performed by Christ as per John the Baptist in Matthew 3:11. It is also what Jesus spoke of as the promise of the Father spoken of by Jesus to the disciples and prophesied by the prophet Joel which was beginning to be fulfilled the day of Pentecost. We find it being experienced by those who were converted throughout the book of Acts. It is an outward manifestation and a seal for believers.
You continue to conflate baptism OF the Spirit with baptism WITH the Spirit.
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Paul questioned, Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed? Clearly the Holy Ghost is not received upon belief. The account clarified when the Holy Ghost came to dwell in the twelve. (Acts 19:1-7) Their experience paralleled the original 12 along with the others in the upper room at Pentecost. (Acts 2:4)
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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ocean said:
That may very well be your rallying cry for oneness people everywhere, but it is not found in scripture. We are not saved by what we do. We are saved only by Jesus sacrifice on our behalf.

I know you are familiar with OT scripture but you conveniently do not refer to the BLOOD sacrifice system God ordained which directly points to the blood of Christ being a better sacrifice. You will use OT scripture regarding some of what you believe but why are you not referring to the actual purpose of Christ's blood being the atoning sacrifice?

You know, your obstinate refusal to accept scripture while trying to shove oneness belief systems down everyone elses throat and insulting others is typical of those who have some kind of cult like belief apart from scripture. You will use scripture but only after taking verses out of context or trying to change the meaning of what is obvious but does not support your understanding.

When a person is born into the kingdom of God they are marked with the Holy Spirit and that is what scripture teaches. You endanger yourself and anyone else you try to hoover into your unbiblical persuasions with all your tongues tongues tongues and water baptism
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Water baptism would accomplish nothing if not for the sacrificial blood of Jesus. That is what makes what is promised possible for those who believe and obey God's command to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin. (Acts 2:36-42)
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#104
Wansvic said:
Paul questioned, Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed? Clearly the Holy Ghost is not received upon belief. The account clarified when the Holy Ghost came to dwell in the twelve. (Acts 19:1-7) Their experience paralleled the original 12 along with the others in the upper room at Pentecost. (Acts 2:4)
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Clearly the baptism WITH the Spirit isn't necessary for salvation. BUT...being baptized BY the Spirit is according to Romans 8:9. Not possessing the Spirit of Christ means you are not His.
Again, you conflate the two baptisms.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Cameron143 said:
Clearly the baptism WITH the Spirit isn't necessary for salvation. BUT...being baptized BY the Spirit is according to Romans 8:9. Not possessing the Spirit of Christ means you are not His.
Again, you conflate the two baptisms.
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The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are one in the same. The scripture is yet another that reveals the truth of the Godhead. "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Rom 8:9

As revealed in every detailed conversion account the people believe in Jesus, repent as seen in their willingness to submit to being water baptized in the name of Jesus, and receive the Holy Ghost into their bodies as evidenced by their speaking in tongues. Those are the facts. No mention of receiving the Holy Spirit twice.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Wansvic said:
The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are one in the same. The scripture is yet another that reveals the truth of the Godhead. "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Rom 8:9

As revealed in every detailed conversion account the people believe in Jesus, repent as seen in their willingness to submit to being water baptized in the name of Jesus, and receive the Holy Ghost into their bodies as evidenced by their speaking in tongues. Those are the facts. No mention of receiving the Holy Spirit twice.
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Look at the example you shared. Paul asked had they received the Spirit since they believed. Since they had believed, they were saved already. Hence, they belonged to Christ and had been baptized already BY the Spirit into Christ. Thus, the question was essentially had they received the promise of the Father, which is the baptism WITH the Spirit.
You continue to conflate the 2, and this is the cause of your error.
 
lrs68

lrs68

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Cameron143 said:
Look at the example you shared. Paul asked had they received the Spirit since they believed. Since they had believed, they were saved already. Hence, they belonged to Christ and had been baptized already BY the Spirit into Christ. Thus, the question was essentially had they received the promise of the Father, which is the baptism WITH the Spirit.
You continue to conflate the 2, and this is the cause of your error.
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Technically speaking, they were Baptized into John the Baptist method. They actually weren't saved at all only water Baptized by John.
 
ocean

ocean

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lrs68 said:
I'm not trying to be indifferent here but when we read the circumstances surrounding Acts 2:38 over 8,000 people the Bible claims was saved and they did it by exactly doing as peter preached. 3,000 were immediately saved then we see the rest in the following days.

So if the Bible says they were saved then it's possible to do as Peter preached and be saved.
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what is the actual formula (for lack of a better word) for salvation? is it the blood of Christ plus water?

I am well aware of the water presentation having been over it more than once but what actually saves? did the High Priest get wet before entering the holy of holies or did he enter through blood sacrifice?

how about Hebrews 9:12? is it water or blood that is on the mercy seat in heaven?

and I have no clue what you mean by indifferent :unsure:
 
ocean

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Wansvic said:
Water baptism would accomplish nothing if not for the sacrificial blood of Jesus. That is what makes what is promised possible for those who believe and obey God's command to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin. (Acts 2:36-42)
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what is the actual formula (for lack of a better word) for salvation? is it the blood of Christ plus water?

I am well aware of the water presentation having been over it more than once but what actually saves? did the High Priest get wet before entering the holy of holies or did he enter through blood sacrifice?

how about Hebrews 9:12? is it water or blood that is on the mercy seat in heaven?

water baptism is for identification with Christ in His death. as per scripture
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

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Wansvic said:
The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are one in the same. The scripture is yet another that reveals the truth of the Godhead. "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Rom 8:9

As revealed in every detailed conversion account the people believe in Jesus, repent as seen in their willingness to submit to being water baptized in the name of Jesus, and receive the Holy Ghost into their bodies as evidenced by their speaking in tongues. Those are the facts. No mention of receiving the Holy Spirit twice.
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No, what @Cameron143 is explaining is the nuance of "with" the Holy Spirit and "of/by" the Holy Spirit.

Understanding that baptism is immersion, the Holy Spirit immerses us into the Body of Christ. This is baptism BY the Holy Spirit:

"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body..."

This is a baptism of identity.

Christ, however, baptizes us with the Spirit: He immerses us with the Spirit.

"But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you..."

"He (Christ) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire..."

This is a baptism of power.

Without bias, these are elementary principles and easy to see.
 
ocean

ocean

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Cameron143 said:
Look at the example you shared. Paul asked had they received the Spirit since they believed. Since they had believed, they were saved already. Hence, they belonged to Christ and had been baptized already BY the Spirit into Christ. Thus, the question was essentially had they received the promise of the Father, which is the baptism WITH the Spirit.
You continue to conflate the 2, and this is the cause of your error.
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That is one conflation and a big one, but there is also the matter of you are not saved if you do not speak in tongues which is another of the errors promoted by the oneness pentecostals and we also have the get baptized in Jesus name only or do it over if not
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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lrs68 said:
Technically speaking, they were Baptized into John the Baptist method. They actually weren't saved at all only water Baptized by John.
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Water baptism doesn't save. Believing into the Lord Jesus Christ is what saves. They clearly had already believed.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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ocean said:
That is one conflation and a big one, but there is also the matter of you are not saved if you do not speak in tongues which is another of the errors promoted by the oneness pentecostals and we also have the get baptized in Jesus name only or do it over if not
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Baby steps.
 
ocean

ocean

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Wansvic said:
The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are one in the same. The scripture is yet another that reveals the truth of the Godhead. "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Rom 8:9

As revealed in every detailed conversion account the people believe in Jesus, repent as seen in their willingness to submit to being water baptized in the name of Jesus, and receive the Holy Ghost into their bodies as evidenced by their speaking in tongues. Those are the facts. No mention of receiving the Holy Spirit twice.
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Nope.

God IS Spirit

Jesus is the Word who became flesh

The Holy Spirit we first read about at creation when He hovered over the face of the waters and now plays a major part in the life of the believer

Your belief is actually considered to be heresy as are other misrepresentations of the Godhead
 
J

JBTN

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Beckworth said:
Maybe we have been missing something. In trying to reconcile Matthew 28:19 with scriptures like Romans 6:3 and Galatians 3:27, perhaps Matthew 28 is saying baptize “BY THE AUTHORITY OF” the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We all know that “in the name of” means “by the authority of”; where as Romans 6:3 says we are baptized INTO Christ: also, Galatians 3:27 says we are baptized INTO Christ. Maybe this is the position of those who teach “Jesus only” doctrine. I certainly don’t agree with their doctrine, but I believe all scripture harmonizes with all other scriptures. Just trying to harmonize these different passages on baptism.

Would there be anything wrong with someone saying, “I baptize you by the authority of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost into Jesus Christ for the remission if your sins? I even think it would be acceptable to say “I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy ghost into Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins.” I think we have perfectly harmonized Matthew 28,19, Roman’s 6:3, Galatians 3:27 and Acts 2:38! Surely, we have covered ALL the bases!
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In Acts 2:38 the phrase “in the name of Jesus Christ” actually starts with the Greek word epi. The primary meaning of epi is ”on”. The word onomati means a name, authority, or cause. So ”immersed on the authority of Jesus Christ” seems correct.

You also mentioned Romans 6:3 and Galatians 3:27 and the phrase baptized into Christ. Basically ”immersed into Christ.” In both of those cases into is the Greek word eis. This same word is the “for” in “for the forgiveness of sins” in Acts 2:38. So if we are consistent, Acts 2:38 would say immersed on the authority of Jesus Christ into forgiveness of sins. This is the same thing as saying immersed into Christ.

“In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭7‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/eph.1.7.ESV

If we are immersed into Christ, that doesn’t appear to be a water immersion.

“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭13‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/eph.1.13.ESV

Sealed in him, think immersed into him by the Holy Spirit when we believed.
 
BillG

BillG

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ocean said:
yeah. just been over this whole oneness thing so many times that I had to think twice four times if I actually wanted to have another go :giggle:

prob will post their actual beliefs somewhere along the line. (sorry)
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Not on this site.
None of them have the balls to answer the question "Am I saved or not if I have been baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

Makes you wonder why?
Let's be honest Jesus made it clear that we are saved by faith

Romans 10:8-12
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.

Who was Peter addressing at Pentecost.
The Jews. Isreal

Acts 2:36-38
36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The Gentiles wouldn't want to go to the Pentecost gathering.
 
lrs68

lrs68

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ocean said:
what is the actual formula (for lack of a better word) for salvation? is it the blood of Christ plus water?

I am well aware of the water presentation having been over it more than once but what actually saves? did the High Priest get wet before entering the holy of holies or did he enter through blood sacrifice?

how about Hebrews 9:12? is it water or blood that is on the mercy seat in heaven?

and I have no clue what you mean by indifferent :unsure:
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The Blood from an acceptable sacrifice is what saves and the belief that it truly happened.
 
lrs68

lrs68

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Cameron143 said:
Water baptism doesn't save. Believing into the Lord Jesus Christ is what saves. They clearly had already believed.
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I know it doesn't save and why I mentioned they weren't saved. But the Bible specifically mentioned John's Baptism so it's explaining John's Baptism isn't sufficient compared to what Paul was offering.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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lrs68 said:
I know it doesn't save and why I mentioned they weren't saved. But the Bible specifically mentioned John's Baptism so it's explaining John's Baptism isn't sufficient compared to what Paul was offering.
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Did Paul preach to them?
 
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