The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

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When Jesus walked this earth the old covenant was in operation. He was faithfull to it, but at the same tie looked forward to the new one that was to come:
When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; John16:8&9

Why did Jesus not say:
''About sin transgression of the law?
It is interesting, that many only want a message that can be understood without the indwelling Holy Spirit
 
Thaddeus said:
The law is not based on faith(Gal3:12)
So who has the more faith?
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Faith establishes the Law, for the Law, the word is in their hearts and in their mouths. That is the word of faith in which we are to preach not yours. That is the faith the just live by not yours.
 
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Qt said:
If we Love the Lord our God with all our heart and soul and our neighbor as ourselves we will think or feel no ill towards our neighbor. So that what you say is of you. For this Love that is shared with you today has rained down open us from above since Eden and was written in the oracles of God entrusted unto the Jews. That which you so hate, the Torah. This is that which the just live by and is established by the faithful through that Faith that has the Word, the Law in their hearts through Christ and His Spirit.
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I have been convicted of much sin in my life ever since I got saved:
IE, impure thoughts/lust, failing to love others as I should, telling fibs(when I was young) and much more besides. I have felt immense guilt because of it. And I did NOT have to firstly read of law written in ink to be conscious of sin
But I have never been conscious of sin in regard to not following all of Torah
 
Qt said:
Faith establishes the Law, for the Law, the word is in their hearts and in their mouths. That is the word of faith in which we are to preach not yours. That is the faith the just live by not yours.
Click to expand...
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code Rom7:4-6

You will live a holier life if you follow the above, that's for sure
 
This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
9I will(I will) put my laws in their hearts,
and I will(I will) write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more. Heb10:15-17
But as Jesus said:
Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say: The old is better Luke5:39
 
Thaddeus said:
Best for you to ignore what I wrote, I guess. Too painful to face up to it.
Paul told born again christians in the present tense, the letter of the ten commandments kills.
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You speak a lot based on subjectivity. I, I, I and never really address anything.
Paul said that the letter kills and that we are not live by the ministry, that of the letter and that which was of stone.

News flash we were never to live by that which was without but from within. That of the heart through faith. For without faith it is impossible to please Him. But The Just shall live by faith. The faith, that is through the transformed heart through Christ. That which has God's Spirit and therefore His Word, the Law written upon it. Only that can establish the Law. For the Law is in thir hearts and in their minds. His word is in their hearts and in their mouths. That is the word of faith in which we preach. For with the heart man believeth INTO righteousness and with the mouth assenting is done unto the soul.

If we speak not according to the Law, the Word that is with in and the Testimony there is no light in us.
 
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Qt said:
You speak a lot based on subjectivity. I, I, I and never really address anything.
Paul said that the letter kills and that we are not live by the ministry, that of the letter and that which was of stone.

News flash we were never to live by that which was without but from within. That of the heart through faith. For without faith it is impossible to please Him. But The Just shall live by faith. The faith, that is through the transformed heart through Christ. That which has God's Spirit and therefore His Word, the Law written upon it. Only that can establish the Law. For the Law is in thir hearts and in their minds. His word is in their hearts and in their mouths. That is the word of faith in which we preach. For with the heart man believeth INTO righteousness and with the mouth assenting is done unto the soul.

If we speak not according to the Law, the Word that is with in and the Testimony there is no light in us.
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Unfortunatley you do not understand a spiritual message, only one the natural mind can conceive
Die to the law, do not look to it, look to Christ and rely on sanctification by the Spirit, and you will live a more holy life/one that is far more in line with what is written in what is holy, just and good(Rom7:12
 
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Thaddeus said:
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code Rom7:4-6

You will live a holier life if you follow the above, that's for sure
Click to expand...
Romans Chapter 7 can not be understood without understanding six. And with the understanding that which chapter 8 speaks.
It says Jesus condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law that is established through the faith that the just live by might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The law that showed Paul what covetousness is. The Law That Gives us the knowledge of sin. So mortify the deeds of the Body through the Spirit and live.

If six is true in our lives and our old man is destroyed and we are not serving sin what need is there of a law that told us what sin is? For the Law as chapter 7 and 3 shared only tells us what sin is. It never made anyone righteous.

Paul said the Law is for the sinner if used lawfully. Then if we are still sinning the Law is for us, you and I if used lawfully.
 
Thaddeus said:
This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
9I will(I will) put my laws in their hearts,
and I will(I will) write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more. Heb10:15-17
But as Jesus said:
Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say: The old is better Luke5:39
Click to expand...
Yes He changes our heart. As He said The Word, the Law, the oracles of God that which gives the knowledge of sin is in our hearts that we do it. That is the word of faith in which we are to preach. For with the heart man believeth into righteousness. For faith establishes the Law that gave us the knowledge of sin if we walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh,
 
Qt said:
Romans Chapter 7 can not be understood without understanding six. And with the understanding that which chapter 8 speaks.
It says Jesus condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law that is established through the faith that the just live by might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The law that showed Paul what covetousness is. The Law That Gives us the knowledge of sin. So mortify the deeds of the Body through the Spirit and live.

If six is true in our lives and our old man is destroyed and we are not serving sin what need is there of a law that told us what sin is? For the Law as chapter 7 and 3 shared only tells us what sin is. It never made anyone righteous.

Paul said the Law is for the sinner if used lawfully. Then if we are still sinning the Law is for us, you and I if used lawfully.
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Im afraid you will not understand Rom7
 
Qt said:
Yes He changes our heart. As He said The Word, the Law, the oracles of God that which gives the knowledge of sin is in our hearts that we do it. That is the word of faith in which we are to preach. For with the heart man believeth into righteousness. For faith establishes the Law that gave us the knowledge of sin if we walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh,
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As a Baptist minister of fifty years stated:
If we all followed after the Holy Spirit every minute of our lives we would never commit sin, the reality escapes us all
However, I can see the law means a great deal to you
I imagine therefore you would be in anguish at dwelling on any impure thought
Ever desiring anything of your neighbours whether material goods or a member of their household.
Failing to love in your heart all of your neighbours
Ever putting anything before God in your life
You obviously would be distraught at failing where any of the above are concerned.
 
The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56
Sinfull passions are aroused in us by the law Rom7:5
Sin took occasion of the commandment not to covet to arouse all manner of concupiscence in Saul(Rom7:8)
Of course, for those with only a watered down version of the law, the above cannot be understood
 
The claim that God's Law causes sin cannot stand beside the words of Jesus or the rest of Scripture.
From the very beginning, God presents His commandments as life, not as death.

See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil.Deuteronomy 30:15

A few verses later God explains why:

...to love Jehovah thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments... that thou mayest live...Deuteronomy 30:16

The commandments are presented as the way to life. They are never described as the cause of sin. Jesus taught exactly the same thing. When asked how to inherit eternal life, He did not say the commandments produce sin. He said:

...if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments.Matthew 19:17

If God's commandments created sin, Jesus could never have given them as the path to life.

Jesus also explained where sin really comes from.



But the things which proceed out of the mouth come forth out of the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart come forth evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, railings: these are the things which defile the man...Matthew 15:18-20
Notice carefully what Jesus says. Sin does not come from God's commandments. Sin comes from the human heart. The Law simply tells us what those sins are.

This agrees with the Old Testament.
...sin coucheth at the door; and unto thee shall be its desire: but do thou rule over it. Genesis 4:7

Sin already existed long before Moses received the Law. The Law did not create it.

God also said through Ezekiel: ...The soul that sinneth, it shall die...Ezekiel 18:20

The blame falls on the sinner, not on God's commandments.

David delighted in God's Law.

The law of Jehovah is perfect, restoring the soul... the commandment of Jehovah is pure, enlightening the eyes. Psalm 19:7-8

A perfect law restores the soul. It does not corrupt it.

Again David wrote:

...all thy commandments are righteousness. Psalm 119:172

If the commandments are righteousness, they cannot be the source of sin.

Jesus also rejected the idea that external commands are the problem. Instead He repeatedly exposed the evil intentions of the heart.

In the Sermon on the Mount He did not weaken the commandments. He strengthened them, teaching that anger leads to murder, lust leads to adultery, and love must extend even to enemies. His solution was not fewer commandments but changed hearts.

I could go on and on and on quoting verses but people don't want to listen.

If someone argues that the Law itself produces sin, then they must also explain why Jesus told people to keep the commandments to enter life, why David delighted in them, why God promised to write them on our hearts, and why John said they are not burdensome. the burden of the proof are on those who say the law is sin and is no more.

The Bible's answer is consistent from beginning to end: God's Law is holy, righteous, and good because it reflects His character. Sin comes from the sinful heart that refuses to obey Him. The commandments expose sin, define sin, and guide us away from it, but they never create it.

Some do not want to hear the truth.
 
2Christ said:
The claim that God's Law causes sin
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The claim by Paul; was: Sin took occasion of the commandment not to covet to arouse all manner of concupiscence in him.
If you wish to reject the words of the person who wrote half the books of the NT sobeit
 
When Jesus says obey my commandments, does he want to bless us?

Doesn't all the commandments mean to bless us?

Or shall we break the commandments? Idolatry, murder, adultery, stealing .... are good?
 
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Churchgoer said:
When Jesus says obey my commandments, does he want to bless us?

Doesn't all the commandments mean to bless us?

Or shall we break the commandments? Idolatry, murder, adultery, stealing .... are good?
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How can you want to go against what has been placed in your heart?
 
Thaddeus said:
The claim by Paul; was: Sin took occasion of the commandment not to covet to arouse all manner of concupiscence in him.
If you wish to reject the words of the person who wrote half the books of the NT sobeit
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The question is not how many books Paul wrote. The question is whether your interpretation agrees with Jesus.
Jesus never taught that God's commandments produce sin. He taught the opposite.
If thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:17, ASV)
If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments. (John 14:15, ASV)
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (1 John 3:4, ASV)
If the commandments themselves caused sin, why would Jesus tell people to keep them in order to enter life? Why would He command His disciples to keep His commandments? Why would John define sin as breaking God's law instead of obeying it?

The commandment does not create evil desires. It reveals them. A speed limit sign does not make someone want to speed. It exposes whether they choose to obey or rebel. The problem is the heart, not God's law.

Jesus said, For from within, out of the heart of men, evil thoughts proceed... (Mark 7:21-23, ASV). He did not say they come from God's commandments.

So I choose to follow Jesus' teaching first. If someone interprets Paul in a way that contradicts Jesus, then that interpretation is the problem, not Jesus' words.

Good luck you'll need it it is by Jesus words we are judged.
 
2Christ said:
The question is not how many books Paul wrote. The question is whether your interpretation agrees with Jesus.
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Well I simply quoted the words of Paul to you, it was not my interpretation
So it seems you are trying to bring Paul into conflict with Jesus.
Once again, according to Jesus own words, what he taught could be understood without the indwelling Holy Spirit, so much of what Paul wrote requires the indwelling Holy Spirit to understand
 
Qt said:
By the Law is the knowledge of sin The Law has never made anyone righteous. It was added because of transgressions. But the faith through Christ establishes the Law.
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Please distinguish which law was added.

There is no sin without law.

But sin was present from Adam to Moses.

Which law was added and which law was defining sin?
 
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