Once elect always elect. Jesus doesn't lose sheep, its just sometimes what look a lot like sheep end up being goats. Sadly.Amen!
If we had no choice, then zapping would be the other option, but I believe we have a choice. Zapping/no choice = robot.
Amen!
Amen!
Sanctification follows justification.
I believe in OSAS IF and this is a big IF. IF one is truly saved to begin with. I see no bending in regard to perseverance, but I do see a conditional confirmation.
Yes, Paul seems to be making the point that sin can be overcome by walking in the spirit. He doesn't end what he's saying after he explains his struggle with sin.Here's what I see, from my sometimes obstructed view.
If we walk in the flesh, in our own strength, we will be sunk by the Law of sin described in Romans 7.
Only through Christ's death, resurrection, and Priestly Ministry, and the Holy Spirit can we prevail against the law of sin in our members.
IMHO, I believe that is the point of Romans 7-8. I am open to other perspectives that may provide additional insight though.
If your interpretation of Hebrews is correct then no one is saved.No it is because they continued wilfulling sinning after receiving the knowledhe of the truth.
The knowledge that Jesus blood cleanses our Conscience, who we are from dead works, sin. Acts that cause death, so we can serve the living God. For the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sin. But He in these last days by the sacrifice of Himself have put away sin once and for all. For all that is for the ministry must be sanctified (set apart for holy use) by His Blood. And we whom He has sanctified He also perfected. Whereof this perfectness the Holy Ghost speaks when He saith, God will put His law in our hearts and in our minds.
Having our hearts sprinkled from that evil conscience and our bodies washed by the pure water let us hold fast this profession of Faith without wavering. For He is faithful that promised. Let us not forsake the assembling of ourselves as is the manner of some but exhort one another daily as we see the day approaching. For if we continue sinning willfully after we have received the knowledge of this truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin, Only judgment and the fiery indignation of our God.
Those God "foreknew" (Romans 8 and Romans 11) in the literal context of Romans are the Jews.Once elect always elect. Jesus doesn't lose sheep, its just sometimes what look a lot like sheep end up being goats. Sadly.
But God's foreknowdge is infallible.
Wuut?!? The Book of Hebrews wasn't written for the Gentiles?!!??!
Are you a Hebrew?Wuut?!? The Book of Hebrews wasn't written for the Gentiles?!!??!![]()
The Lord chose the twelve.Once elect always elect. Jesus doesn't lose sheep, its just sometimes what look a lot like sheep end up being goats. Sadly.
But God's foreknowdge is infallible.
Then your reading a letter that was written to someone else.
Amen!
If we had no choice, then zapping would be the other option, but I believe we have a choice. Zapping/no choice = robot.
Amen!
Amen!
Sanctification follows justification.
I believe in OSAS IF and this is a big IF. IF one is truly saved to begin with. I see no bending in regard to perseverance, but I do see a conditional confirmation.
I was responding to your statement about God's culpability, which you didn't address. Did God create hell or not? Whose decision was it that sinners should suffer in hell?Not at all. MFWists believe God invites/calls/urges everyone to satisfy His condition for heaven/forgiveness/salvation (1Tim. 2:3-4).
God wanted to create humans in His moral image rather than robots, which meant gracing them with the possibility of choosing the good or evil option/the fruit of life or death (Gen. 3:1-6), and what makes choosing the option evil is that doing so separates sinners from God, who is love, joy and peace, thereby resulting in hatred, misery and strife.
Thus, unrepentant sinners send themselves to hell.
I was responding to your statement about God's culpability, which you didn't address. Did God create hell or not? Whose decision was it that sinners should suffer in hell?
But earlier you mentioned the plain meaning of the text. It seems to me that Jesus taught two things relevant to our discussion: a man must be born again in order to see the kingdom of heaven; those whom God gives to Jesus will receive eternal life. This suggests that mankind is not morally neutral. God gives some rebirth and some he doesn't. God gives some to Jesus and some not.
To answer the larger question, Hebrews 10:26 can not be used as a proof text to argue that someone can lose his or her salvation.
They send themselves to hell? That isn't how it works. God sends them to Hell. Right?"God invites/calls/urges everyone to satisfy His condition for heaven/forgiveness/salvation" and "unrepentant sinners send themselves to hell" means they are culpable, not God, because their decision contradicted God's will (1Tim. 2:3-4).
So why do they all choose rebellion against God? What good did it do for them to freely choose rebellion?God created souls having the option/MFW/choice/decision whether or not to separate themselves from God's love, joy and peace aka heavenly fellowship, thereby resulting in experiencing the opposite enmity: hatred, misery and strife or actualization of hell.
Did Jesus say that the born again experience is freely chosen or did he say it was an activity of the Spirit?Jesus plainly taught (in John 3:16, cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4) that every sinner may repent, seek and be born again/saved/see heaven/be given to Him/receive eternal life.
Right, as we agreed everyone, left to themselves, choses rebellion.Heb. 10:19-39 and 6:4-6 clearly teach that saints/saved sinners can repudiate their saving faith/commit apostasy and therefore be destroyed/condemned.
Paul wrote the book of Hebrews to the Hebrews, which is why it contains issues that they are familiar with such as the Day of Atonement etc. He is talking to them about issues related to the Gospel which is why the Gentiles can benefit from reading and studying the Book.Wuut?!? The Book of Hebrews wasn't written for the Gentiles?!!??!![]()
They send themselves to hell? That isn't how it works. God sends them to Hell. Right?
So why do they all choose rebellion against God? What good did it do for them to freely choose rebellion?
Did Jesus say that the born again experience is freely chosen or did he say it was an activity of the Spirit?
Right, as we agreed everyone, left to themselves, choses rebellion.
You are talking about two different things: consequences and punishment. The expression "reap what they sow" addresses consequences. If I sow a weed seed, I will reap weeds. If I sow an apple seed, I will reap apples. The consequences are predictable.Nope, unrepentant sinners reap what they sow. They sow evil and earn hell.
Why they do this/refuse to repent was a mystery to Jesus and Paul per Matt. 13:14-15 = Acts 28:26-27.
Repentant sinners are born again by freely cooperating with God's HS.
All humans exercise MFW by choosing to sin, and all may choose to repent and cooperate with God's POS,
which is why they justly experience/reap wrath when they refuse to do so.
God is not blamable, although those in hell wish they had never been born/created.
Heb 10:29 seems to stand out as to warrant careful pause for deeper consideration rather than treating it as any sort of "plain reading."Sure about that? a plain contextual reading would suggest otherwise.
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[<a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=heb 10&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30164d" title="See footnote d">d</a>] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[<a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=heb 10&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30164e" title="See footnote e">e</a>] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
You are talking about two different things: consequences and punishment. The expression "reap what they sow" addresses consequences. If I sow a weed seed, I will reap weeds. If I sow an apple seed, I will reap apples. The consequences are predictable.
Hell is for those who are suffering punishment for rebellion against God.
Your view that people are repentant before they are born again is unsupported by the Biblical text, which is probably why you don't understand that God can save anyone, any time. And apparently you don't understand what it means to be born again.
You said: All humans exercise MFW by choosing to sin, and all may choose to repent and cooperate with God's POS,
In Jesus' view, a person doesn't even recognize the evidence or understand the issue of salvation without the Spirit opening their eyes. Jesus performed miracles so that people would know that he came from God and was telling the truth about sin and judgment, and one would expect that if a person understood the danger, they would believe Jesus and follow him. But according to Jesus, a person doesn't even recognize that they need a savior or that Jesus is the savior they need unless and until the Holy Spirit opens their eyes.
Jesus is talking about a miracle transformation of the inner man. And since it is a miracle that anyone believes that Jesus is Lord and Savior, then God can perform this miracle for anyone he chooses. Theoretically, he could do this for each and every person in the world if it pleased him. Choosing to repent comes AFTER this