Who are these guys?

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JustThinking

Active member
Mar 14, 2026
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In the Tanakh and the New Testament, we find at least three major figures or powers specifically described as opposing God, His people, His Church, His appointed times, and His law. Daniel identifies the Little Horn. Paul describes the Lawless One. John speaks of the Antichrist.

The important question is whether these are three entirely different enemies appearing at different times, or whether they are three descriptions of the same developing power viewed from different perspectives.

If they are the same, then Daniel, Paul, and John are not giving us separate prophecies about unrelated individuals. They are each revealing another part of the same picture—its origin, character, development, activity, and eventual judgment.

That leads to the next question: When does this power arise, and where should we look for it / them in history?
 
JustThinking said:
In the Tanakh and the New Testament, we find at least three major figures or powers specifically described as opposing God, His people, His Church, His appointed times, and His law. Daniel identifies the Little Horn. Paul describes the Lawless One. John speaks of the Antichrist.

The important question is whether these are three entirely different enemies appearing at different times, or whether they are three descriptions of the same developing power viewed from different perspectives.

If they are the same, then Daniel, Paul, and John are not giving us separate prophecies about unrelated individuals. They are each revealing another part of the same picture—its origin, character, development, activity, and eventual judgment.

That leads to the next question: When does this power arise, and where should we look for it / them in history?
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When the full number of people groups have come into the body of Christ. Not until every people group has been reached with the Gospel. We can hasten the day of the Lord by reaching out to unreached people groups. We can delay His coming by ignoring unreached people groups.

Rom 11:24
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
 
PaulThomson said:
When the full number of people groups have come into the body of Christ. Not until every people group has been reached with the Gospel. We can hasten the day of the Lord by reaching out to unreached people groups. We can delay His coming by ignoring unreached people groups.

Rom 11:24
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
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I am not sure why you posted these passages in response to this question. But thanks.
 
JustThinking said:
If they are the same, then Daniel, Paul, and John are not giving us separate prophecies about unrelated individuals. They are each revealing another part of the same picture—its origin, character, development, activity, and eventual judgment.
Click to expand...
They are the same individual which he will appear in the future.

Which God is giving the world 7 years to have their way and go against the truth.

And when they follow the antichrist and take his mark then salvation is no longer available to the world and God will end sin on earth.

Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Daniel had a vision of 4 beasts, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and the Roman Empire.

These 2 scriptures is the Roman Empire.

Which 10 horns come from them the world divided in to 10 sections with a leader in each section.

The little horn, antichrist, comes from the 10 horns.

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece will never have physical dominion again.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces..

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

The Roman Empire does not lose their dominion until Jesus puts down the world.

Which they will devour the whole earth, tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Which is by way of the new age christianity(1 Timothy 4:1-5; 2 Timothy 4:2-4).

So this is in the future when the little horn appears.

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

This is at the time that God is going to end sin on earth.

Which in Revelation 12 the devil's are cast to earth which they deceive all people who do not love the truth which is the strong delusion God will send them.

So this is in the future when the man of sin appears.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The antichrist is to come in the future but is already working in the world.

For the mystery of iniquity already works in the world and the man of sin will appear in the future who will be Satan inhabiting a human body and represents iniquity for he is against God and deceives the world.

The antichrist is the man of sin, and the little horn who will appear in the future when God is ready to end sin on earth.
 
tablet123 said:
They are the same individual which he will appear in the future.

Which God is giving the world 7 years to have their way and go against the truth.

And when they follow the antichrist and take his mark then salvation is no longer available to the world and God will end sin on earth.

Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Daniel had a vision of 4 beasts, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and the Roman Empire.

These 2 scriptures is the Roman Empire.

Which 10 horns come from them the world divided in to 10 sections with a leader in each section.

The little horn, antichrist, comes from the 10 horns.

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece will never have physical dominion again.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces..

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

The Roman Empire does not lose their dominion until Jesus puts down the world.

Which they will devour the whole earth, tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Which is by way of the new age christianity(1 Timothy 4:1-5; 2 Timothy 4:2-4).

So this is in the future when the little horn appears.

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

This is at the time that God is going to end sin on earth.

Which in Revelation 12 the devil's are cast to earth which they deceive all people who do not love the truth which is the strong delusion God will send them.

So this is in the future when the man of sin appears.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The antichrist is to come in the future but is already working in the world.

For the mystery of iniquity already works in the world and the man of sin will appear in the future who will be Satan inhabiting a human body and represents iniquity for he is against God and deceives the world.

The antichrist is the man of sin, and the little horn who will appear in the future when God is ready to end sin on earth.
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Thank you and we do agree on much. Daniel 7 and 8 do provide us with all the information we need to identify the little horn - who is the same one as the antichrist and the lawless one. But I would like to discuss with you why you feel this little horn comes at the end of time.

I think you stated the little horn will come out of the 4th kingdom and only after the 10 horns come out first. So we do have 11 horns but only one, the little horn, represents a man. The other 10 represent powers and are not men.

But I would like to ask you that since both come out of the 4th beast kingdom of Rome, doesn't that mean the both the little horn and the 10 horns must come out from Rome BEFORE Rome was slain? Meaning, in Daniel 7:11, he tells us that the 4th beast woud be slain - that would be pagan Rome in 476 AD. Now, this does NOT mean there will come another 5th or 6th, etc., kingdom since one of the reasons God identified the 4 kingdoms in chapter 2 is to ensure we understand that all of His prophecies in Daniel will occur within these 4 and only 4 kingdoms.

But within Daniel, this does not mean that the 4th kingdom goes completely away, but that it continues in other form. The Imperial Rome is slain but another shortly comes in his place to sit atop the 4th beast kingdom.

So I am saying this is ask you to consider that the 10 horns and the little horn must come onto the scene before pagan Rome is slain in 476 AD. What are your thoughts?
 
The 10 horns is the world divided in to 10 sections with a leader in each section.

Which they shall devour the whole earth, tread it down, and break it in pieces.

So they cover the whole earth which could not happen hundreds of years ago without technology.

The beast being slain and thrown in to the fire is the antichrist.

The little horn comes from the 10 horns which the 10 horns are in the future.

The Roman Empire does not lose their dominion until Jesus puts down the world.

Which the 10 horns and the little horn are operating when Jesus takes over the world and rules it which is in the future.

The Roman Empire has the dominion until Jesus puts down the world.

Which their perspective of reality has changed which they stopped believing in a God.

Which the Bible warns the saints of the new age christianity which they interpret the Bible and religions according to the occult and evolution, and people are going to evolve to be spiritual, and Jesus became an ascended master, and there is no personal God, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher.

Which the time will come that people will not want to hear the truth of the Bible but according to their own lusts.

The religion of the antichrist which he will push the agenda of the new age and have power over all nations, kindreds, and tongues.

Which the Roman Catholic Church being their religious institution the Pope and Vatican will embrace the new age interpretation of the Bible and give support to the New Age Christ.

The Roman Empire does not lose their dominion until Jesus puts down the world so they never fell in the past but just not as dominant but in the future will be more dominant as they pull the world together to embrace the new age christianity going back to their occult and pagan ways although it was part of them all along.
 
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