The salvation process or journey.

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Watchman22 said:
OK Jordan,
Whatever the case, I can tell you have a good heart. I hope something in our paths crossing helps it grow for the Lord.
Click to expand...
To be honest jay I'm always wacky on a Sunday, after a trip to the wacky ware house 😋
 
Watchman22 said:
In this thread, I'm going to present all the biblical happenings that must happen, and happen in the right order in the salvation process or journey.

This will make better sense to you if you first read the rediscovering pisteuo thread, and the A,B,Cs, of faith and faithing thread first.

This thread is focused on the correct response to the call of the Father, "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender." Not the believe and receive understanding.

Disclaimer: I will use the word gate, simply to highlght that part of the journey. I'm not suggesting there are actual gates.

The salvation process.

1) The world or the field.
A) Christ bought the entire field to get the treasure out of it. Jn. 3:16
B) Drawing by the Father starts here. Jn 6:44.
C) Were called out to be sainted here. Rom. 1:7.
D) people are called out from this field, and people are not called out from from this field. (A deep dive into the Greek is needed to show this.)
E) The beginning of the perfecting process starts here.
F) not sealed with the Spirit of Christ yet. Rom.8:9, not His yet.
G) no prayer or worship is acceptable here yet.
H) Repentance happens here. Turning from our way to the direction of the caller.
I) At this beginning stage, His Spirit, His word, and His promises are not ours yet.

2) Gate 1 or the altar.

A) first act of faithing, pisteuo, the surrendered life happens here.
B) A decision is made here, to make a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Genuine, not a perfect one.
C) Here, the act of pisteuo or faithing is tested and deemed Genuine by God.
D) No "saving faith " yet at the point.
E) prayer and worship not acceptable here yet. Rom. 8:9. Not His yet.
F) Alternative paths are formed here to go over or around the altar. (Believe and receive doctrine. ) to no avail.

3) Parable of the sower.
Mt. 13: 1-23. My. 4:1-20, Lk. 8:4-15.

A) here, Christ Himself is the seed.
B) the called out ones whos act of faithing has been accepted as Genuine are the soils.
C) this stage is a testing or proving ground.
D) the surrendered life is being tested here.
E) Decisions are made here that support the fact we really have turned our life and will over to God.
F) 3 of the 4 soils will fail here.
G) for 1 soil, this is the start of Christ being formed in their hearts by Faith. (pistis)
H) a grafting process begins here for that 1 soil.
I) no prayer and worship acceptable here yet.
J) God's paradoxical truths start to form here.
K) Faith begins to come by a hearing, a hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17.

4) Gate 2 or the accepted surrendered life.

A) Here, our surrendered life has been accepted.
B) the Spirit of Christ or the Grace deposit has been sealed into the faither, making them a temple of the Holy Spirit.
C) for the first time, He is in us and we are in Him.
D) a spiritual awakening happens here.
E) Dynamite power goes off here.
F) God's nature begins to flow.
G) the kind of giving that can't be imitated begins.
H) saving faith, a continually surrendered life has begun.
I) prayer and worship are acceptable now.
J) the mind of Christ and His presence start to take hold.
K) because of the mind of Christ, praying without ceasing starts here.
L) a called out one can only go through this gate one time.

5) The product.

A) here, God is producing "faithers" that are responding with saving faith.
B) here, a precondition has been met.
C) here a continual state of faithing will consume us.
D) here, we are either being saved or perishing. Choosing to faithe towards Him or away from Him.
E) this is not a destination.
F) we are continuously being perfected here, our faith, our surrendered life.
G) we should expect God's nature and His word to continually flow through us.
H) here, we are His and He is ours. We are in a state where it's harder to get out of His will, than it is to stay in it.
I)here, Rom. 7: 14-21 is in effect. We have been separated from our sinful nature's, by Grace through Faith.

This has been a testimony of sorts to the experience i had and have been having. It's not my intention to step on toes here, only to fulfill what I understand is the truth. This isn't about me, it's about us. I hope you see Him in this process.
Click to expand...

Bumped for Ghw.
 
Watchman22 said:
Bumped for Ghw.
Click to expand...

I refer to the salvation process as "spiritual dynamics", which I describe as follows:

It begins primitively when selfish but innocent babies attain the stage of moral accountability or conscience as they are able to understand what their parents deem to be right and wrong beliefs and behavior, which is normally well-developed by the age of eight or the stage of pre-pubescence, comparable to when Adam and Eve became aware it was wrong to eat from the forbidden tree (Gen. 2:17).

During this stage a soul’s relationship with God begins when the person becomes a truthseeker (cf. Matt. 7:7, Heb. 11:6), because God’s Spirit is Truth (1John 5:6), although the young soul may not realize it (Rom. 1:17). As a truthseeker at any time in history contemplates creation, Paul indicates that they will be able to discern God’s being and loving will in nature (Rom. 1:20, 2:14-15, Gal. 5:14) by means of what theologians call general revelation. In this regard it is good to plumb the depths of Gen. 1:1-3 describing the Spirit of God’s presence as God spoke creation into existence and connect it with John 1:1-3 saying the Word was in the beginning and through Him all things were made (cf. Acts 17:27-28).

When souls realize that God has a moral requirement, if they worship Him they become like Abraham, and the relationship with God becomes personal (Rom. 4:1-25). Presumably God provides such believers the opportunity to learn the proto-gospel, so they may repent of sin and accept the pre-incarnate foreshadowing of the sacrifice of Christ (cf. Gen. 3:21), whether in the form of Abraham’s ram (Gen. 22:13) or Moses’ lamb (Exo. 12:21). At the moment of worship and saving faith like Abraham, the Spirit of Christ/God’s Holy Spirit enters the believer’s spiritual heart– again even though they do not realize it–because Paul taught that whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Christ (Rom. 8:9). Of course, partial knowledge of God’s Word will limit ability to cooperate with Him, so there is a need for evangelism and learning the full Gospel (Matt. 28:19-20).

If a moralist truthseeker (on the basis of general revelation) is taught about God (perhaps via the OT), then he/she may choose to believe in God or become a theist. If theists are taught the Gospel (NT), then they may choose to believe/accept Jesus as Christ. In both cases salvation is a gift/grace from God received by faith “from first to last” (Rom. 1:17). Similarly but perhaps with greater realization because of learning NT revelation, when a sinner learns the Gospel of Christ and confesses Jesus as Lord (Acts 20:21, Rom. 10:9), the HS enters the convert’s heart (Rom. 5:5) and unites them with God as heavenly Father (Rom. 8:9)–which moment is called spiritual rebirth (John 3:3-8), baptism by the Spirit (Matt. 3:11/Mark 1:8/Luke 3:16, John 1:33, Acts 1:5, 1Cor. 12:13) and receiving the Spirit of adoption/sonship (Rom. 8:14-16). Paul referred to the comparable moment for Abraham as spiritual circumcision.

The outward evidence that someone was baptized by the HS (Rom. 5:5) and is Spirit-filled (Eph. 5:18) or walking with God is the manifestation of the fullness of Christ (Eph. 3:19, 4:13) or fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23), which is signified by “love” (Gal. 5:6). Jesus said “All men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another” (John13:35, 1John 4:7-21), because love sums up the moral character of God (1John 4:7-8).

The personal relationship between Believers/Christians and God may be viewed as having three stages: conversion, spiritual growth or maturation (Eph. 4:13), and glorification (1Pet. 5:10) or immortality (1Cor. 15:53) in heaven. The kerygmatic prayer that is necessary in order for a sinner be saved and walk with God is confession (1John 1:9, Psa. 32:1-5). Because a convert’s commitment to Christ is in accordance with God’s perfect will (1Tim. 2:3-4), the moment of Spirit baptism fulfills the command to be filled with the Spirit (in Eph. 5:18), which means to cooperate fully with the love of God (Eph. 3:16-19) or of the HS (Rom. 15:30).

The moment or stage of conversion may be described grammatically as occurring in the past: we were saved when we repented/received the baptism of the HS. From the moment of repentance onward begins the second stage of growth, discipleship (Acts 14:22) or sanctification (2Thes. 2:13), which is present progressive: it is the process of being saved now. This stage has two phases: instability and maturity. A new convert does not achieve immediate perfection by remaining filled with the HS (Phil. 3:12). Instead, the combination of temptations, ignorance of GW and the old selfish nature results in immature saints committing post-conversion sins, at which time the are carnal or acting like unbelievers (1Cor. 3:1).

As soon as new Christians realize they sinned, they should confess it (1John 1:9a) rather than compound it by trying to hide it or cover it up like Adam and Eve did (Gen. 3:7-8). Whenever a believer acknowledges to God his/her known sins of immoral attitudes and actions, God forgives all sins (1John 1:9b). This means he/she is pleasing rather than grieving God or once again is Spirit-filled (walking in the Spirit) and has a right relationship with Christ Jesus (Eph. 4:30, 5:10 & 18). This spiritual flip-flopping is the phase of instability, and although it is bad, failure to confess promptly is much worse, because it results in chain-sinning or back-sliding, which may be called prodigal if it continues very long (cf. Luke 15:11-32).

Unfortunately, some saints may not appreciate the process of spiritual growth or being transformed by the renewing of their minds (Rom. 12:2), perhaps because it involves admitting sins or having “guilt trips”. Guilt is like a warning light, and until we gain the wisdom to welcome God’s reproof, we will not feel the satisfaction of becoming a new and improved version of ourselves (Heb. 10:19-22). Thus, guilt is good (John 9:41). Woe to the one who become so callous that no guilt is felt when wrong is done (Matt. 13:14-15)!

The unstable phase is followed eventually by a second phase in a believer’s relationship with God’s HS of relative maturity, signified in the Bible (especially the KJV) by the phrase “walking with God” (cf. Enoch in Gen. 5:24) or walking in light (1John 1:7). Paul also described this phase as walking in love (Eph. 5:2), in a new life (Rom. 6:4) according to the Spirit (Rom. 8:4) and in good works (Col. 1:10).

Like physical walking, spiritual walking has two steps. The first step is listening to God (LGW), and the second step is responding to or cooperating with God. God’s message for mankind is revealed partially by the world He has created but more fully by the Scriptures He has inspired. The crux of God’s Word is the Gospel of salvation (kerygma), while the secondary teachings (didache) consist of the manifold applications of the law of love (1John 3:11). The Believer’s main types of responses to God’s Word are prayer to God and good works unto others for God (cf. 1John 4:20, Eph. 2:10).
 
Watchman22 said:
In this thread, I'm going to present all the biblical happenings that must happen, and happen in the right order in the salvation process or journey.

This will make better sense to you if you first read the rediscovering pisteuo thread, and the A,B,Cs, of faith and faithing thread first.

This thread is focused on the correct response to the call of the Father, "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender." Not the believe and receive understanding.

Disclaimer: I will use the word gate, simply to highlght that part of the journey. I'm not suggesting there are actual gates.

The salvation process.

1) The world or the field.
A) Christ bought the entire field to get the treasure out of it. Jn. 3:16
B) Drawing by the Father starts here. Jn 6:44.
C) Were called out to be sainted here. Rom. 1:7.
D) people are called out from this field, and people are not called out from from this field. (A deep dive into the Greek is needed to show this.)
E) The beginning of the perfecting process starts here.
F) not sealed with the Spirit of Christ yet. Rom.8:9, not His yet.
G) no prayer or worship is acceptable here yet.
H) Repentance happens here. Turning from our way to the direction of the caller.
I) At this beginning stage, His Spirit, His word, and His promises are not ours yet.

2) Gate 1 or the altar.

A) first act of faithing, pisteuo, the surrendered life happens here.
B) A decision is made here, to make a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Genuine, not a perfect one.
C) Here, the act of pisteuo or faithing is tested and deemed Genuine by God.
D) No "saving faith " yet at the point.
E) prayer and worship not acceptable here yet. Rom. 8:9. Not His yet.
F) Alternative paths are formed here to go over or around the altar. (Believe and receive doctrine. ) to no avail.

3) Parable of the sower.
Mt. 13: 1-23. My. 4:1-20, Lk. 8:4-15.

A) here, Christ Himself is the seed.
B) the called out ones whos act of faithing has been accepted as Genuine are the soils.
C) this stage is a testing or proving ground.
D) the surrendered life is being tested here.
E) Decisions are made here that support the fact we really have turned our life and will over to God.
F) 3 of the 4 soils will fail here.
G) for 1 soil, this is the start of Christ being formed in their hearts by Faith. (pistis)
H) a grafting process begins here for that 1 soil.
I) no prayer and worship acceptable here yet.
J) God's paradoxical truths start to form here.
K) Faith begins to come by a hearing, a hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17.

4) Gate 2 or the accepted surrendered life.

A) Here, our surrendered life has been accepted.
B) the Spirit of Christ or the Grace deposit has been sealed into the faither, making them a temple of the Holy Spirit.
C) for the first time, He is in us and we are in Him.
D) a spiritual awakening happens here.
E) Dynamite power goes off here.
F) God's nature begins to flow.
G) the kind of giving that can't be imitated begins.
H) saving faith, a continually surrendered life has begun.
I) prayer and worship are acceptable now.
J) the mind of Christ and His presence start to take hold.
K) because of the mind of Christ, praying without ceasing starts here.
L) a called out one can only go through this gate one time.

5) The product.

A) here, God is producing "faithers" that are responding with saving faith.
B) here, a precondition has been met.
C) here a continual state of faithing will consume us.
D) here, we are either being saved or perishing. Choosing to faithe towards Him or away from Him.
E) this is not a destination.
F) we are continuously being perfected here, our faith, our surrendered life.
G) we should expect God's nature and His word to continually flow through us.
H) here, we are His and He is ours. We are in a state where it's harder to get out of His will, than it is to stay in it.
I)here, Rom. 7: 14-21 is in effect. We have been separated from our sinful nature's, by Grace through Faith.

This has been a testimony of sorts to the experience i had and have been having. It's not my intention to step on toes here, only to fulfill what I understand is the truth. This isn't about me, it's about us. I hope you see Him in this process.
Click to expand...

Bumped for Paul Thompson
 
Watchman22 said:
In this thread, I'm going to present all the biblical happenings that must happen, and happen in the right order in the salvation process or journey.

This will make better sense to you if you first read the rediscovering pisteuo thread, and the A,B,Cs, of faith and faithing thread first.

This thread is focused on the correct response to the call of the Father, "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender." Not the believe and receive understanding.

Disclaimer: I will use the word gate, simply to highlght that part of the journey. I'm not suggesting there are actual gates.

The salvation process.

1) The world or the field.
A) Christ bought the entire field to get the treasure out of it. Jn. 3:16
B) Drawing by the Father starts here. Jn 6:44.
C) Were called out to be sainted here. Rom. 1:7.
D) people are called out from this field, and people are not called out from from this field. (A deep dive into the Greek is needed to show this.)
E) The beginning of the perfecting process starts here.
F) not sealed with the Spirit of Christ yet. Rom.8:9, not His yet.
G) no prayer or worship is acceptable here yet.
H) Repentance happens here. Turning from our way to the direction of the caller.
I) At this beginning stage, His Spirit, His word, and His promises are not ours yet.

2) Gate 1 or the altar.

A) first act of faithing, pisteuo, the surrendered life happens here.
B) A decision is made here, to make a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Genuine, not a perfect one.
C) Here, the act of pisteuo or faithing is tested and deemed Genuine by God.
D) No "saving faith " yet at the point.
E) prayer and worship not acceptable here yet. Rom. 8:9. Not His yet.
F) Alternative paths are formed here to go over or around the altar. (Believe and receive doctrine. ) to no avail.

3) Parable of the sower.
Mt. 13: 1-23. My. 4:1-20, Lk. 8:4-15.

A) here, Christ Himself is the seed.
B) the called out ones whos act of faithing has been accepted as Genuine are the soils.
C) this stage is a testing or proving ground.
D) the surrendered life is being tested here.
E) Decisions are made here that support the fact we really have turned our life and will over to God.
F) 3 of the 4 soils will fail here.
G) for 1 soil, this is the start of Christ being formed in their hearts by Faith. (pistis)
H) a grafting process begins here for that 1 soil.
I) no prayer and worship acceptable here yet.
J) God's paradoxical truths start to form here.
K) Faith begins to come by a hearing, a hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17.

4) Gate 2 or the accepted surrendered life.

A) Here, our surrendered life has been accepted.
B) the Spirit of Christ or the Grace deposit has been sealed into the faither, making them a temple of the Holy Spirit.
C) for the first time, He is in us and we are in Him.
D) a spiritual awakening happens here.
E) Dynamite power goes off here.
F) God's nature begins to flow.
G) the kind of giving that can't be imitated begins.
H) saving faith, a continually surrendered life has begun.
I) prayer and worship are acceptable now.
J) the mind of Christ and His presence start to take hold.
K) because of the mind of Christ, praying without ceasing starts here.
L) a called out one can only go through this gate one time.

5) The product.

A) here, God is producing "faithers" that are responding with saving faith.
B) here, a precondition has been met.
C) here a continual state of faithing will consume us.
D) here, we are either being saved or perishing. Choosing to faithe towards Him or away from Him.
E) this is not a destination.
F) we are continuously being perfected here, our faith, our surrendered life.
G) we should expect God's nature and His word to continually flow through us.
H) here, we are His and He is ours. We are in a state where it's harder to get out of His will, than it is to stay in it.
I)here, Rom. 7: 14-21 is in effect. We have been separated from our sinful nature's, by Grace through Faith.

This has been a testimony of sorts to the experience i had and have been having. It's not my intention to step on toes here, only to fulfill what I understand is the truth. This isn't about me, it's about us. I hope you see Him in this process.
Click to expand...

Paul let's look at the first phase , keeping in mind the correct response to the call of yhe Father being , " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. "Do you have any disagreement on this first phase.
 
Watchman22 said:
I think it is simple, just surrender. All the rest is what God is doing.
Click to expand...
One of my favorite evangelistic scriptures though it is not usually used for that purpose is
Matthew 16:24-26:
Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, [as a sheep]
he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me.
25 For whoever wants to save [or cling to] his life ψυχὴν (psychēn)
[i.e., retain ownership and control of our mind, will emotions and personality]
will lose it, but whoever loses his life
[relinquishes the ownership and control of his mind will emotions and personality]
for My sake will find it.
26 What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?…

Some people have the idea that completely relinquishing ones soul to Jesus is the mark of an extremely mature highly advanced disciple but it is the very first step we take when we first believe. It is not about setting high standards it is the result of knowing how incredibly wrecked we are. Only those of us who are completely convinced that we cannot manage our own their lives without supernatural assistance will take this step. The cross is the first step we take and the Holy Spirit draws us to take that step.

I came to know the Lord as a boy. I listened to the gospel week after week but it meant nothing to me because I had no awareness of my sin. Then one day I began to feel the impact of the words. I began to experience an acute awareness that I did not merely sin, I was a sinner deep in the core of my being. This was not an abstract idea. I saw it for myself. I began to feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit who began to urge me to confess what I knew and to call to Jesus to save me, After I did, He compelled me to confess my sin and faith before the whole Congregation. That was one of the hardest things I have ever done. Nevertheless, the Spirit was unrelenting. He kept searching my heart and uncovering my wickedness. I began feeling his love for me which I could only cry. I think God ordained the path to salvation and transformation which we must follow. We should not try and make it easier for anyone.
 
JimiSurvivor said:
One of my favorite evangelistic scriptures though it is not usually used for that purpose is
Matthew 16:24-26:
Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, [as a sheep]
he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me.
25 For whoever wants to save [or cling to] his life ψυχὴν (psychēn)
[i.e., retain ownership and control of our mind, will emotions and personality]
will lose it, but whoever loses his life
[relinquishes the ownership and control of his mind will emotions and personality]
for My sake will find it.
26 What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?…

Some people have the idea that completely relinquishing ones soul to Jesus is the mark of an extremely mature highly advanced disciple but it is the very first step we take when we first believe. It is not about setting high standards it is the result of knowing how incredibly wrecked we are. Only those of us who are completely convinced that we cannot manage our own their lives without supernatural assistance will take this step. The cross is the first step we take and the Holy Spirit draws us to take that step.

I came to know the Lord as a boy. I listened to the gospel week after week but it meant nothing to me because I had no awareness of my sin. Then one day I began to feel the impact of the words. I began to experience an acute awareness that I did not merely sin, I was a sinner deep in the core of my being. This was not an abstract idea. I saw it for myself. I began to feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit who began to urge me to confess what I knew and to call to Jesus to save me, After I did, He compelled me to confess my sin and faith before the whole Congregation. That was one of the hardest things I have ever done. Nevertheless, the Spirit was unrelenting. He kept searching my heart and uncovering my wickedness. I began feeling his love for me which I could only cry. I think God ordained the path to salvation and transformation which we must follow. We should not try and make it easier for anyone.
Click to expand...

No such thing as believing! See rediscovering pisteuo thread!
 
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