If Eternal Security Is Conditional, then...

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Aren't we all on our way to hell? By saying this, I'm not being sarcastic. I am genuinely torn on this issue of eternal security. I just don't understand why G-d would be so ambiguous on such an IMPORTANT issue as the salvation of your soul. Isn;t this supposed to be the whole point of the bbible? Not for head knowledge, but for the saving of one's soul. Yet, there is so much controversy and downright confusion on the issue of salvation and eternal security.

But here is why I made that first statment. There are so many sins pointed out in the bible, besides sins of the flesh. Jerry Bridges pointed out in his book, "Respectable Sins" that there are vertain sins that we overlook because they are socially acceptable; sins including
* Ungodliness
* Anxiety and Frustration
* Discontentment
* Unthankfulness
* Pride
* Selfishness
* Lack of Self-Control
* Impatience and Irritability
* Anger
* The Weeds of Anger
* Judgmentalism
* Envy, Jealousy, and Related Sins
* Sins of the Tongue
* Worldliness
I have heard great preachers say, for instance, that if Jesus came back to rapture the church, and you the Christian were in the bed fornicating, you would miss the rapture. Not only that, but if you died in the midst of commiting fornication, you would go to hell. The bible says that G-d hates a proud look, but pride is encouraged in society. We're told that in order to be successful, we have to be proud. So what happens if we die in pride??? Where does one draw the line? When is one crossing the line? I just really don't get it. This is confusing to me, to be honest.
 
Aren't we all on our way to hell? By saying this, I'm not being sarcastic. I am genuinely torn on this issue of eternal security. I just don't understand why G-d would be so ambiguous on such an IMPORTANT issue as the salvation of your soul. Isn;t this supposed to be the whole point of the bbible? Not for head knowledge, but for the saving of one's soul. Yet, there is so much controversy and downright confusion on the issue of salvation and eternal security.

But here is why I made that first statment. There are so many sins pointed out in the bible, besides sins of the flesh. Jerry Bridges pointed out in his book, "Respectable Sins" that there are vertain sins that we overlook because they are socially acceptable; sins including
* Ungodliness
* Anxiety and Frustration
* Discontentment
* Unthankfulness
* Pride
* Selfishness
* Lack of Self-Control
* Impatience and Irritability
* Anger
* The Weeds of Anger
* Judgmentalism
* Envy, Jealousy, and Related Sins
* Sins of the Tongue
* Worldliness
I have heard great preachers say, for instance, that if Jesus came back to rapture the church, and you the Christian were in the bed fornicating, you would miss the rapture. Not only that, but if you died in the midst of commiting fornication, you would go to hell. The bible says that G-d hates a proud look, but pride is encouraged in society. We're told that in order to be successful, we have to be proud. So what happens if we die in pride??? Where does one draw the line? When is one crossing the line? I just really don't get it. This is confusing to me, to be honest.

You are not on your way to hell if you are looking to Christ and trusting him. For if you are doing that you are not seeking to fulfill the desires of the flesh

If any sincere Christian looks at the list you have given and basis eternal life on obediance to that list they are in effect living under law and will soon become crushed

It is for the sincere Christian to look to Christ not their imperfections and trust him, that is our only righteousness for Heaven for as long as we live
Rom 1:17

And it is by looking to Christ and trusting him and looking away from ourselves that we live more according to how God would have have us live

Don't look to that list as a yardstick, look to Christ and trust him and rely on the Holy Spirit to sanctify you, that is where the true victory lies

For obediance comes from faith(in Christ)

Rom 1:5
 
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Aren't we all on our way to hell? By saying this, I'm not being sarcastic. I am genuinely torn on this issue of eternal security. I just don't understand why G-d would be so ambiguous on such an IMPORTANT issue as the salvation of your soul. Isn;t this supposed to be the whole point of the bbible? Not for head knowledge, but for the saving of one's soul. Yet, there is so much controversy and downright confusion on the issue of salvation and eternal security.

But here is why I made that first statment. There are so many sins pointed out in the bible, besides sins of the flesh. Jerry Bridges pointed out in his book, "Respectable Sins" that there are vertain sins that we overlook because they are socially acceptable; sins including
* Ungodliness
* Anxiety and Frustration
* Discontentment
* Unthankfulness
* Pride
* Selfishness
* Lack of Self-Control
* Impatience and Irritability
* Anger
* The Weeds of Anger
* Judgmentalism
* Envy, Jealousy, and Related Sins
* Sins of the Tongue
* Worldliness
I have heard great preachers say, for instance, that if Jesus came back to rapture the church, and you the Christian were in the bed fornicating, you would miss the rapture. Not only that, but if you died in the midst of commiting fornication, you would go to hell. The bible says that G-d hates a proud look, but pride is encouraged in society. We're told that in order to be successful, we have to be proud. So what happens if we die in pride??? Where does one draw the line? When is one crossing the line? I just really don't get it. This is confusing to me, to be honest.

well ok we are not heading to hell, Jesus is what pulled us out of the train of hell so we may live eternity with Him.

Now about pride, the kinda of Pride that God hates is one thinking so great about itself to where nothing else matters......that is how Lucifer became who he is today (Satan). he thought he could become like God and was not being aware of his inward surroundness....Pride is Selfessness.

also we try to repent to please God, not be saved by our works....
If we died in that moment of temptation then we are not going to hell automatically.....you only then go to hell by rejecting Christ and doing the sexual or sinful nature repeatedly.

When there is a person who draws the line is when they reject Christ forever, go back to the old world and live the way that they did. Now if we made a mistake and died after and we are in Christ, then we are saved. how i am seeing your point friend is if you do not do good works then you will go to hell. now it is wrong to do wrong repeatedly and not care and profess to be a Christian only.

but again I cannot say who will be saved or not,,,,,God is the judge.
 
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Aren't we all on our way to hell? By saying this, I'm not being sarcastic. I am genuinely torn on this issue of eternal security. I just don't understand why G-d would be so ambiguous on such an IMPORTANT issue as the salvation of your soul. Isn;t this supposed to be the whole point of the bbible? Not for head knowledge, but for the saving of one's soul. Yet, there is so much controversy and downright confusion on the issue of salvation and eternal security.

But here is why I made that first statment. There are so many sins pointed out in the bible, besides sins of the flesh. Jerry Bridges pointed out in his book, "Respectable Sins" that there are vertain sins that we overlook because they are socially acceptable; sins including
* Ungodliness
* Anxiety and Frustration
* Discontentment
* Unthankfulness
* Pride
* Selfishness
* Lack of Self-Control
* Impatience and Irritability
* Anger
* The Weeds of Anger
* Judgmentalism
* Envy, Jealousy, and Related Sins
* Sins of the Tongue
* Worldliness
I have heard great preachers say, for instance, that if Jesus came back to rapture the church, and you the Christian were in the bed fornicating, you would miss the rapture. Not only that, but if you died in the midst of commiting fornication, you would go to hell. The bible says that G-d hates a proud look, but pride is encouraged in society. We're told that in order to be successful, we have to be proud. So what happens if we die in pride??? Where does one draw the line? When is one crossing the line? I just really don't get it. This is confusing to me, to be honest.


this is the reason for a second resurection. all judged by the books.
 
yo man... you seem to be stressing a bit... take it easy... its not such a great conundrum :P
John 3:16 explains it all... anybody who believes in Christ and His saving power shall be saved. God saves us, (2 Tim 1:9; Titus 3:5) and there is nothing that we can do to gain His Grace. Jesus died for us while we 'were yet sinners' (Romans 5:8) so there is nothing that you can do to gain His favour, its already been given. all you have to do is believe and be saved :)

now that that is said, you cannot also continue in sin and expect to be saved. that is why we have forgiveness (Yay!!) 'if we repent and confess our sins, He is faithful and just to cleans us from our unrighteousness' repenting means to turn away and change. so if i sin, i ask for forgiveness and help to overcome the sin the next time around, and he will always provide 'a way of escape' (1 Cor 10:13)

when it comes to those items on your list, those are all very real sins, and im afraid that no sin is 'respectable'... in any way. sin is sin, whether socially acceptable or not. and if we are to become like Christ, we will have to strive to remove sin from our lives. what is mportant to note, is that you cant stop sinning by stopping sinning. it simply cannot be done. only the power of Christ in your life will give you the power to overcome the temptation. you cannot avoid temptation (even Jesus was tempted when He was down here) but you can overcome by His Grace and power.

on the last issue of how the world views pride and such. remember that this world is corrupt. how they view things is not the way God wants us to view things. we are not to rely 'on worldly wisdom, but on Gods grace' (2 Cor 1:12). we are also to be known as 'the salt of the earth', we are to be 'in the world, but not of it'. the world may be wrong at times, they might be right at others, but the word of God is never wrong, ever. so why not choose to follow the always correct way?

hope it helps man!! Get more Jesus in your life and those sins will somehow take care of themselves... and remember, you cant stop sinning by stoppiong sinning, only Gods power in your life helps you overcome 'all things'
 
I believe we live forever. As long as we are righteous, we are blessed. When we are unrighteous, we are disciplined. Discipline can be very severe. This will always be true.
 
God looks at our heart. Be still and wait, do not worry so much of others salvation at this point but look towards your own. Once you are secure in your faith and your shield is strong. Once you are deeply rooted in God's word then you can start to reach out to others to help them.

It was a hard lesson for me to learn. If your are trying to walk on water towards Jesus, make sure you learn your lessons and how to swim before reaching out to help a friend or you both will drown.

If you be still and listen you will hear God speak in your heart, you can know its God if you spend at least half an hour reading the BIBLE (not commentary) and the LIVING WORD will SPEAK to you. I'm not sure how to describe it but try and pray with an open heart, take you Bible into a quiet corner and just pray and read it. Just you and God. IF you hear voices or doubt rebuke them in the name of Jesus. If you have questions, put them on hold. Try and quiet your mind. The voices might go through all the sinful things you have done that day, your life, etc.

Look towards Jesus and ask for forgiveness. BELIEVE in the redemption of sins and move forward. Ask God what you can do to make amends for the people you hurt: it might be just to offer a prayer, or actually apologize or more depending upon your transgression.

Once you have done all that is required then ask God humbly for your prayer request or question. Normally I focus on the one most pressing on my heart that day. I pray for all my loved ones but I always narrow down to one specific thing in my life that is troubling me and God always shows me an answer. It might not be what I like but its always what I need.

Therefore if God chastens you then know that you truly are a child of God. God's love is eternal for those who chose to accept the gift.


Hebrews 12:6-8 (New King James Version)

6 For whom the LORD loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”[a]
7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.


listen then to the voice of truth, we all have giants to fight.

YouTube - Voice Of Truth - Casting Crowns

your sister in christ.
 
this is the reason for a second resurection. all judged by the books.


This is not a resurrection. This is a delivering. Scripture says DEATH and HADES were delivered to (not resurrected by)Christ for judgment, And all are cast in lake of fire.
 
I believe we live forever. As long as we are righteous, we are blessed. When we are unrighteous, we are disciplined. Discipline can be very severe. This will always be true.

We will all live forever I believe. Yet scripture states we all will not be disciplined. Only those born of God.

Those not born of God will be judged at the final judgment.
 
We will all live forever I believe. Yet scripture states we all will not be disciplined. Only those born of God.

Those not born of God will be judged at the final judgment.


You are referring, I believe to the verses in Proverbs, "My son, do not despise the Lord’s discipline, and do not resent his rebuke, because the Lord disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in." (Proverbs 3:12) There are several references to God's discipline, including the verse in Hebrews, "They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness." (Hebrews 12:10)

However, I believe that there are two levels of discipline handed out by God. First, the tweaking of believers, in order to bring them more into line with His thinking, but also second. severe discipline of chronic sinners in order to get their attention, and turn them away from their damnation. I think this type of discipline is referred to in the Book of Job, “Blessed is the one whom God corrects; so do not despise the discipline of the Almighty. For he wounds, but he also binds up; he injures, but his hands also heal." This sounds to me like something more serious than "tweaking".

In any case, I do believe that once saved, always saved. I read something recently that compared this concept to the principle of "double jeopardy" in legal terms. Christ was found guilty and paid the price for our sins when He hung on the cross. Therefore, when we believe in Him, we cannot be tried again. But, as I have often said before, receiving salvation makes us want to try to follow His example.
 
You are referring, I believe to the verses in Proverbs, "My son, do not despise the Lord’s discipline, and do not resent his rebuke, because the Lord disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in." (Proverbs 3:12) There are several references to God's discipline, including the verse in Hebrews, "They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness." (Hebrews 12:10)

No I was referring to Hebrews 12. Where the words inspired by God state the Lord chastens those who are his. If we are not chastened by God, we are illegitimate and not true children. (God does not chasten those who are not his children) So maybe you misunderstood me, Sorry if i did not make this clear.

However, I believe that there are two levels of discipline handed out by God. First, the tweaking of believers, in order to bring them more into line with His thinking, but also second. severe discipline of chronic sinners in order to get their attention, and turn them away from their damnation. I think this type of discipline is referred to in the Book of Job, “Blessed is the one whom God corrects; so do not despise the discipline of the Almighty. For he wounds, but he also binds up; he injures, but his hands also heal." This sounds to me like something more serious than "tweaking".

I agree there are more severe terms of tweeking. Paul even speaks of a sin until death, Where God takes a child home before his time.



In any case, I do believe that once saved, always saved. I read something recently that compared this concept to the principle of "double jeopardy" in legal terms. Christ was found guilty and paid the price for our sins when He hung on the cross. Therefore, when we believe in Him, we cannot be tried again. But, as I have often said before, receiving salvation makes us want to try to follow His example.

Amen, One of the many reasons to believe in eternal security (otherwise known as eternal life)
 
Isn;t this supposed to be the whole point of the bbible? Not for head knowledge, but for the saving of one's soul.

Well, I think this is a false dichotomy. It's neither about head knowledge nor is the whole point about salvation. Certainly, Jesus' death on the cross won for us salvation, but he also came to gave us life, and life more abundantly. It's more about where you're going when you die. Proverbs begins:

For gaining wisdom and instruction;
for understanding words of insight;
for receiving instruction in prudent behavior,
doing what is right and just and fair;
for giving prudence to those who are simple,
knowledge and discretion to the young—
let the wise listen and add to their learning,
and let the discerning get guidance.

This doesn't have so much to do with getting to heaven as living prudently, being just and fair, with knowledge and discretion. In the eleventh chapter, God hates dishonest scales. In the twelfth, a disgraceful wife is compared to bone cancer. The fifteenth chapter is full of advice on how to play well with others. If we read the Bible as a manual for getting to heaven, these passages don't make sense in the usual Christian presentation; does this mean that if I use dishonest scales, I go to hell?

Even the passages that discuss heaven don't seem to say it's enough to just get in the door:

By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

i.e. getting to heaven isn't going to be particularly pleasant for a lot of people. Whether or not we're saved from the fire, some of us are going to feel loss. We don't have to call it purgatory, but it is a sort of purgation. The parts of us which aren't going to survive in heaven don't survive.

So what happens if we die in pride???

Whether or not we survive, our pride will not remain. The presence of pride, though, doesn't determine whether or not we survive.

Where does one draw the line? When is one crossing the line?

Jesus drew it fairly explicitly. All sorts of sins, apart from blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, are forgiven in the age to come.
 
Aren't we all on our way to hell? By saying this, I'm not being sarcastic. I am genuinely torn on this issue of eternal security. I just don't understand why G-d would be so ambiguous on such an IMPORTANT issue as the salvation of your soul. Isn;t this supposed to be the whole point of the bbible? Not for head knowledge, but for the saving of one's soul. Yet, there is so much controversy and downright confusion on the issue of salvation and eternal security.

But here is why I made that first statment. There are so many sins pointed out in the bible, besides sins of the flesh. Jerry Bridges pointed out in his book, "Respectable Sins" that there are vertain sins that we overlook because they are socially acceptable; sins including
* Ungodliness
* Anxiety and Frustration
* Discontentment
* Unthankfulness
* Pride
* Selfishness
* Lack of Self-Control
* Impatience and Irritability
* Anger
* The Weeds of Anger
* Judgmentalism
* Envy, Jealousy, and Related Sins
* Sins of the Tongue
* Worldliness
I have heard great preachers say, for instance, that if Jesus came back to rapture the church, and you the Christian were in the bed fornicating, you would miss the rapture. Not only that, but if you died in the midst of commiting fornication, you would go to hell. The bible says that G-d hates a proud look, but pride is encouraged in society. We're told that in order to be successful, we have to be proud. So what happens if we die in pride??? Where does one draw the line? When is one crossing the line? I just really don't get it. This is confusing to me, to be honest.
God has not been ambiguous on the issue of salvation. Those who possess the righteousness of God will inherit eternal life and the wicked will perish. It is possible for a Christian to fall away from the faith.

(KJV Revelation 22:14) "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

(KJV Hebrews 12:14) "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:"

(KJV Psalm 37:18) "The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever."

(KJV Psalm 37:20) "But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."

(KJV Luke 8:13) "They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."

(KJV Hebrews 6:4-6) "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

(KJV 1 Timothy 4:1) "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

(KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:3) "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

(KJV Hebrews 3:12) "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heartof unbelief, in departing from the living God."
 
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1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

God wants all people to be saved and the bride is supposed to preach all people can be saved.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

God does the calling and choosing on earth so we have a choice in our salvation.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

If a person hates sin, and does not want sin, and allows the Spirit to lead them then they will have the power abstain from sin.

So there is no excuse and since the power is there it is required of us and if we do not comply there is no salvation.

When God calls a person according to their heart condition He will work in their life to get them to the truth but they have to make the choice to accept the truth for God's kingdom is true love but they would of not accepted the truth unless God intervened in their life for the flesh would not accept it on its own.

So God gets the glory for His intervention caused us to accept the truth.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Some people deny the Spirit for they will not give up the flesh and love sin more than God and they do not come to the truth that they have to be Christlike by the Spirit.

For they are led of the flesh and that is not Christlike.

Which Jesus will tell them He never knew them because they denied the Spirit leading them and were workers of iniquity not doing the will of the Father.

Which they sin wilfully holding on to sin which the blood of Jesus cannot wash away their sins for God will not take away a sin they hold unto.

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.

God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same thing as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.

Predestination means that God already had the plan of salvation to give to mankind from the foundation of the world but this salvation is to whoever wants it for He wants all people to be saved.

God is love so and not evil so He would not choose some people to be saved and some people not to be saved without their choice.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Castaway
adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

Luk 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

For people that did accept the truth but went back to enjoying sins and do not correct it then there is no salvation.

If we sin we should repent not wanting the sin anymore and allow the Spirit to lead us.

Every time we sin we forfeit repentance until we correct it.

God knows the heart whether we are holding on to sin or not.

Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

People who would argue against it saying we cannot abstain from sin and sin does not affect our relationship with God are operating according to the flesh.

The Bible states a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh and God will deliver them from temptation.
 
This is an example of some of the confusion to be had by trying to combine everything in the New Testament and apply it to Christians today.

The gospel of the kingdom intended for the nation of Israel had two interesting features. I promised resurrection unto eternal life and required law keeping. One could lose their "salvation" by not keeping the law.

The gospel of grace given to Paul for the gentiles (which was also available to Jews) gave immediate salvation and did not require law keeping.

By recognizing who is being told what, one can avoid the confusion of trying to make everything apply to everyone.
 
Aren't we all on our way to hell? By saying this, I'm not being sarcastic. I am genuinely torn on this issue of eternal security. I just don't understand why G-d would be so ambiguous on such an IMPORTANT issue as the salvation of your soul. Isn;t this supposed to be the whole point of the bbible? Not for head knowledge, but for the saving of one's soul. Yet, there is so much controversy and downright confusion on the issue of salvation and eternal security.

But here is why I made that first statment. There are so many sins pointed out in the bible, besides sins of the flesh. Jerry Bridges pointed out in his book, "Respectable Sins" that there are vertain sins that we overlook because they are socially acceptable; sins including
* Ungodliness
* Anxiety and Frustration
* Discontentment
* Unthankfulness
* Pride
* Selfishness
* Lack of Self-Control
* Impatience and Irritability
* Anger
* The Weeds of Anger
* Judgmentalism
* Envy, Jealousy, and Related Sins
* Sins of the Tongue
* Worldliness
I have heard great preachers say, for instance, that if Jesus came back to rapture the church, and you the Christian were in the bed fornicating, you would miss the rapture. Not only that, but if you died in the midst of commiting fornication, you would go to hell. The bible says that G-d hates a proud look, but pride is encouraged in society. We're told that in order to be successful, we have to be proud. So what happens if we die in pride??? Where does one draw the line? When is one crossing the line? I just really don't get it. This is confusing to me, to be honest.
Jesus Christ our Lord is the Way, the Truth and the Life. If we are in Him, we are in/on the Way, in the Truth and in the Life. If we abide in Him, we have Life. Every time we disconnect from Him, we will be in need of rescuing by the Good Shepherd from our wandering.
 
Aren't we all on our way to hell? By saying this, I'm not being sarcastic. I am genuinely torn on this issue of eternal security. I just don't understand why G-d would be so ambiguous on such an IMPORTANT issue as the salvation of your soul. Isn;t this supposed to be the whole point of the bbible? Not for head knowledge, but for the saving of one's soul. Yet, there is so much controversy and downright confusion on the issue of salvation and eternal security.

But here is why I made that first statment. There are so many sins pointed out in the bible, besides sins of the flesh. Jerry Bridges pointed out in his book, "Respectable Sins" that there are vertain sins that we overlook because they are socially acceptable; sins including
* Ungodliness
* Anxiety and Frustration
* Discontentment
* Unthankfulness
* Pride
* Selfishness
* Lack of Self-Control
* Impatience and Irritability
* Anger
* The Weeds of Anger
* Judgmentalism
* Envy, Jealousy, and Related Sins
* Sins of the Tongue
* Worldliness
I have heard great preachers say, for instance, that if Jesus came back to rapture the church, and you the Christian were in the bed fornicating, you would miss the rapture. Not only that, but if you died in the midst of commiting fornication, you would go to hell. The bible says that G-d hates a proud look, but pride is encouraged in society. We're told that in order to be successful, we have to be proud. So what happens if we die in pride??? Where does one draw the line? When is one crossing the line? I just really don't get it. This is confusing to me, to be honest.

The primary sin is ignoring God/not being a truthseeker per 2Thes. 2:10.
Truthseekers will find/are on the Way to heaven, who is Christ's loving/Holy Spirit (Rom. 5:5).
Truthseeking is willingness to confess/amend/repent of false beliefs and wrong behaviors; the opposite of pride (1John 1:9).

Hope this helps.