Judgmental Christians

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Where does salvation, forgiveness of our sins and no longer judged worthy of eternal death, fit into your conclusion then?

We are to examine ourselves so what you say there is perhaps your own understanding

I see you have blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord on top of the flag of this country. Do you believe that the US is a godly nation or in covenant with God?


Where?
Let me ask you this, If someone does something against you, do you judge them or do you forgive them--you can't do both. (to answer your first question)
As far as the picture goes, it's a scripture and I hope the US is turning back to God. (to answer your second question)
That statement was part of another post. I didn't say that. I just pulled that out to comment on it. (to answer your third question)
 
Let me ask you this, If someone does something against you, do you judge them or do you forgive them--you can't do both. (to answer your first question)
As far as the picture goes, it's a scripture and I hope the US is turning back to God. (to answer your second question)
That statement was part of another post. I didn't say that. I just pulled that out to comment on it. (to answer your third question)

I certainly can judge something done against me and find it to be a relief to be able to forgive as I have been forgiven. Are you not aware when you are sinned against? It seems you may not know the difference between judging as in condemnation and judging that something is wrong or unrepented of sin in a believers' life.

FYI, the US has never been a nation in covenant with God so what would they be turning back to exactly?
 
Let me ask you this, If someone does something against you, do you judge them or do you forgive them--you can't do both. (to answer your first question)

Define "judge".

Are you talking about judging/condemning a person to hell?
Are you talking about judging/discerning another's actions to be wrong and sinful?
If a thief steals from our home, are you saying we don't have the right to call the police?
If a person within the church is openly in sin and has been properly confronted according to the Bible, are you saying the pastor should not put that person out of the church?

I'm a bit confused as to what you're saying here.
 
I certainly can judge something done against me and find it to be a relief to be able to forgive as I have been forgiven. Are you not aware when you are sinned against? It seems you may not know the difference between judging as in condemnation and judging that something is wrong or unrepented of sin in a believers' life.

FYI, the US has never been a nation in covenant with God so what would they be turning back to exactly?
As I said, judge the action (the works, the fruits), but not the person.
The United States is her people. And I hope that more and more of her people come to Christ.
 
As I said, judge the action (the works, the fruits), but not the person.
The United States is her people. And I hope that more and more of her people come to Christ.

uh...that is not what you said and at this point....whatever 😊
 
Define "judge".

Are you talking about judging/condemning a person to hell?
Are you talking about judging/discerning another's actions to be wrong and sinful?
If a thief steals from our home, are you saying we don't have the right to call the police?
If a person within the church is openly in sin and has been properly confronted according to the Bible, are you saying the pastor should not put that person out of the church?

I'm a bit confused as to what you're saying here.
Only God can judge/condemn a person to hell.
This is what I believe we are discussing. Do we judge the person or do we judge what they did. And I am talking as a peasant here. LOL
Yes! Call the police!
The Pastor is the shepherd of the church. Paul talked about such a person and that the "pastor" should "deliver such a one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh." (1 Cor 5:1-5)
 
There are some Christians who object to being judgmental about other Christians. They say that we shouldn't judge other Christians by our works. I completely agree.

The Christians that say they are continued sinners and still doing sinful works, should not at all judge all Christians the same as them, and say that we all are still sinful and committing transgressions in life. That is a wrong judgment to make of other people, that is only according to themselves and their own works. Scripture forbids it:

Jas 4:11
Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother...There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Likewise, Christians of righteousness not transgressing our Lord's commandments, should never judge other Christians according to themselves and their daily living. The righteous Christians should never say that all Christians are the same as themselves, and are all keeping God's commandments blamelesss.

Let not the Christian sinner accuse all Christians of continued sinning, and let not the righteous Christian accuse all Christians of doing righteousness. But let us all be judged by our works with the Lord Jesus Christ Himself:

2Co 5:9
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Cor. 2:15
The spirits person judges all things, and is under no man's judgment.

This is a temporary judgment.

Eternal judgment, a different word in the Greek is reserved for the Lord.
 
uh...that is not what you said and at this point....whatever 😊

I posted the below earlier this afternoon.

Mat 7:1&2 “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you."

Judge no person Christian or otherwise. You can judge what they do, but do not judge them.
This is a requirement to enter the Kingdom of God.
 
I posted the below earlier this afternoon.

Mat 7:1&2 “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you."

Judge no person Christian or otherwise. You can judge what they do, but do not judge them.
This is a requirement to enter the Kingdom of God.

The word in Mt. 7:1-2 is krino in the Greek. This word means try, condemn, punish. In other words an eternal judgement. That is what is not allowed.

1 Cor. 2:15 is anakrino , this word means investigate, interrogate, question, determine. This is an automatic response of the Spirit of Christ which dwells inside the saints, and is not only allowed but expected.

So it's important to know which biblical word for judgement your using.
 
"Since Scripture and Jesus say that we are judged by our works, then judging our works is judging us."

If you had a neighbor that stole something from you. What would you say about it. Would you say, "He's a thief?" or would you say, "That man stole something from me?"
Matthew 12:37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
1st. Are you denying that Jesus says we are known by our works? That if we are doing righteousness, we are righteous. If we are doing wickedly, we are wicked?

Are you instead saying that we can judge our works, but not ourselves by our works?

1 Peter {1:15}
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judges according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:


Are you saying that God the Father does not judge us by our work?

2nd Are you trying to preach judging Christians by our works, while being nonjudgment with the Christian?

Since with Jesus and God judges and knows us by our work, then it's not possible to judge our work, and be nonjudgmental about ourselves.

Nor is it possible to be stealing, and not be a thief. Would you suggest that murdering someone does not make a murder? Or, do you make relative judgments upon the crime? How many times must we steal and murder, before we are a thief and murderer?

Moral relativism is not the judgment of God. Nor does it have anything to do with nonjudgmentalism, since it does not judge all other people the same as ourselves, whether strictly or relatively.

The nonjudgmental Christian sinner ought not to judge all Christians as sinners, nor does the nonjudgmental Christian saint needs to judge all Christians doers of righteousness.



Besides, forgiveness will never work in judgment. Therefore, judge no-one, not even yourself.
Are you now saying that God is not the Judge of all the earth, because He also forgives an evil doer?

If this is an argument for nonjudgmentalism, where we cannot judge anyone, then there's no need for forgiveness nor condemnation, since we are not judging anyone guilty or innocent, sinful or righteous.

Neither forgiveness nor condemnation works in nonjudgmentalism.

Forgiveness and condemnation can only work in judgment, where the judge forgives or sentences guilty.

1Cor 4:1 Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2 Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God.
Since this applies to ministry of the word and mysteries of God, are you now saying that ministers should not be judged by their ministering?

I would agree that false teachers should not judge all teachers to be false as themselves, and faithful teachers need not judge that all teach faithully as themselves.

So, what are you advocating? Judgmentalism or nonjudgmentalism?

So you agree or disagree, that Christians sinners should not judge all Christians are sinners? That righteous Christians need not judge all Christians are saints?
 
Let me be a bit more clear of how I see judgement. This also coincides with forgiveness.

You can read the story (John 8:1-11)
I would like to draw out one thing from this story.
“He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” (verse 7)
I call the stone a "stone of judgement." And if you ever had a stone thrown at you, it hurts, right?
But now you have that stone that someone threw at you (some sort of sin against you).
And you have three options to deal with that stone:

1) You can throw that baby right back at them. Maybe refashion it to make it more painful. Get your revenge right? Maybe get into a stone fight till someone gets hurt or killed. Doesn't sound like a good option to me.

2) You can toss that stone in the corner with all the other stones, and harbor that hatred and animosity till you die. I hear too much anger can shorten your life. Again, doesn't sound like a good option to me.

3) You can forgive them. When you forgive them, you give that stone of judgement to your Father in Heaven. He then will judge. Whether in this life or in the life to come, they will be judged. Yet, my hope is that they come to the knowledge of and believe in Jesus the Christ, be saved and forgiven. This is my choice.

I hope this helps.
 
DenDog said:
"Since Scripture and Jesus say that we are judged by our works, then judging our works is judging us."

Where?
It's a quote from me. if you want to read the proof of Scripture, then it's summed up with a good or evil tree is known by it's fruit, which with us is our works.

In any case, are you saying we can one another's works, but not the person? Nonjudgmentalism only pertains to the person, but allows us to judge the works?

Neither Scripture nor nonjudgmentalism allows for the distinction. Nonjudgmentalism is not self-delusion, thinking that our works have nothing to do with us.

"I know I do bad things, but my heart is still good." This is not Scriptural nor nonjudgmental. It's only self-justifying hypocritical judgment.

Christians nonjudgmentalism is simple: Do not judge others as yourself, as though all Christians are the same as ourself.

The Christian sinner should not judge all Christians are sinners, and the Christian saint need not judge all Christians are saints.

Do you agree or not? If not, then how not?
 
I certainly can judge something done against me and find it to be a relief to be able to forgive as I have been forgiven.
How can anyone be forgiven for anything not judged guilty? You are mistaking judgment with execution of judgment.

We must first judge someone guilty, in order to forgive, else no forgivness of guilt is needed.

Nonjudgmentalism needs neither forgiveness nor condemnation, since no one is judged at all.

Especially not by our works, since nonjudgmentalism separates the person from works. Which is why some OSAS Christians preach nonjudgmentalism between all Christians.

Which is why no Christian sinner should never judge all Christians are sinners too, and Christian saints never say all Christians are saints too.
 
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Why are you all changing my words.
I am saying over and over not to judge (condemn) a person. But judge (condemn) what they do. You can even confront them. "Why did you do this or that?" And who knows, maybe the Spirit of the Lord will convict them, you will preach Jesus to them and save their lives. :)

And yes, I posted "we are known by our fruits."
 
It's a quote from me. if you want to read the proof of Scripture, then it's summed up with a good or evil tree is known by it's fruit, which with us is our works.

In any case, are you saying we can one another's works, but not the person? Nonjudgmentalism only pertains to the person, but allows us to judge the works?

Neither Scripture nor nonjudgmentalism allows for the distinction. Nonjudgmentalism is not self-delusion, thinking that our works have nothing to do with us.

"I know I do bad things, but my heart is still good." This is not Scriptural nor nonjudgmental. It's only self-justifying hypocritical judgment.

Christians nonjudgmentalism is simple: Do not judge others as yourself, as though all Christians are the same as ourself.

The Christian sinner should not judge all Christians are sinners, and the Christian saint need not judge all Christians are saints.

Do you agree or not? If not, then how not?

You and I are not on the same page; possibly not the same planet even.

I have never judged another person according to whatever it is you are working so hard at trying to explain you take all the air out of a room
......................................................................................................
How can anyone be forgiven for anything not judged guilty? You are mistaking judgment with execution of judgment.

We must first judge someone guilty, in order to forgive, else no forgivness of guilt is needed.

Nonjudgmentalism needs neither forgiveness nor condemnation, since no one is judged at all.

Especially not by our works, since nonjudgmentalism separates the person from works. Which is why some OSAS Christians preach nonjudgmentalism between all Christians.

Which is why no Christian sinner should never judge all Christians are sinners too, and Christian saints never say all Christians are saints too.

No you don't see.
 
How can anyone be forgiven for anything not judged guilty? You are mistaking judgment with execution of judgment.

We must first judge someone guilty, in order to forgive, else no forgivness of guilt is needed.

Nonjudgmentalism needs neither forgiveness nor condemnation, since no one is judged at all.

Especially not by our works, since nonjudgmentalism separates the person from works. Which is why some OSAS Christians preach nonjudgmentalism between all Christians.

Which is why no Christian sinner should never judge all Christians are sinners too, and Christian saints never say all Christians are saints too.


Two negatives in the same sentence cancel each other. You are actually saying no Christian sinner should judge all Christian sinners.

That's confusing enough, but what Bible do you have that has convinced you that Christians are all sinners?

Ramble on :rolleyes:
 
Why are you all changing my words.
I am saying over and over not to judge (condemn) a person. But judge (condemn) what they do. You can even confront them. "Why did you do this or that?" And who knows, maybe the Spirit of the Lord will convict them, you will preach Jesus to them and save their lives. :)

And yes, I posted "we are known by our fruits."

exhausting but you certainly are trying....biblical 'judgement' as in one believer(s) to another does not include condemnation. we are to forgive as we have been forgiven and forgive whether or not the other acknowledges what they have done...that's on a personal level

however, Paul is dealing with a situation that hurts everyone when he says to put the man out who was sleeping with his father's wife

anyway, I've had enough and will gladly leave all the experts here to sort it out.

arrivederci :giggle: 👋
 
1 Cor. 2:15
The spirits person judges all things, and is under no man's judgment.
This is a temporary judgment.
Eternal judgment, a different word in the Greek is reserved for the Lord.
This is not nonjudgmentalism, where we ought not judge others at all, especially not judging all people being the same as us.

Christians sinners should not judge all Christians are sinners, and Christians saints don't judge all Christians as being saints.

1 Cor. 2:15
The spirits person judges all things, and is under no man's judgment.
Paul is saying, that if we are judging all things by the Spirit of truth, then we need not be judged by anyone. We already know the judgment of God in all things.


This is a temporary judgment.
Eternal judgment, a different word in the Greek is reserved for the Lord.

This is saying that God's judgment on earth is only temporary and not eternal, which is not true, since His judgment of works is the same in heaven and on earth. Whether it be angels or men that rebel, the judgment of God is the same for both.

The only temporal judgment of God, is that on earth we can repent, but not from the grave, where our judgment of works is set forever:

Heb{9:27}
It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

God's judgment is not double minded: He doesn't judge us on earth by works, and then judge us differently after the grave.

This sounds like a form of OSAS unconditional security, where we can be judged guilty of works on earth, but also judged righteous in eternity.

In any case, it's not the nonjudgmentalism at hand, where we ought not judgeall others as being the same as ourselves. Whether Christian sinner or saint, we cannot say that all Christians are sinners still sinning, or all Christians are saints only doing righteousness...
 
This is not nonjudgmentalism, where we ought not judge others at all, especially not judging all people being the same as us.

Christians sinners should not judge all Christians are sinners, and Christians saints don't judge all Christians as being saints.


Paul is saying, that if we are judging all things by the Spirit of truth, then we need not be judged by anyone. We already know the judgment of God in all things.




This is saying that God's judgment on earth is only temporary and not eternal, which is not true, since His judgment of works is the same in heaven and on earth. Whether it be angels or men that rebel, the judgment of God is the same for both.

The only temporal judgment of God, is that on earth we can repent, but not from the grave, where our judgment of works is set forever:

Heb{9:27}
It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:


God's judgment is not double minded: He doesn't judge us on earth by works, and then judge us differently after the grave.

This sounds like a form of OSAS unconditional security, where we can be judged guilty of works on earth, but also judged righteous in eternity.

In any case, it's not the nonjudgmentalism at hand, where we ought not judgeall others as being the same as ourselves. Whether Christian sinner or saint, we cannot say that all Christians are sinners still sinning, or all Christians are saints only doing righteousness...
 
This is not nonjudgmentalism, where we ought not judge others at all, especially not judging all people being the same as us.

Christians sinners should not judge all Christians are sinners, and Christians saints don't judge all Christians as being saints.


Paul is saying, that if we are judging all things by the Spirit of truth, then we need not be judged by anyone. We already know the judgment of God in all things.




This is saying that God's judgment on earth is only temporary and not eternal, which is not true, since His judgment of works is the same in heaven and on earth. Whether it be angels or men that rebel, the judgment of God is the same for both.

The only temporal judgment of God, is that on earth we can repent, but not from the grave, where our judgment of works is set forever:

Heb{9:27}
It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:


God's judgment is not double minded: He doesn't judge us on earth by works, and then judge us differently after the grave.

This sounds like a form of OSAS unconditional security, where we can be judged guilty of works on earth, but also judged righteous in eternity.

In any case, it's not the nonjudgmentalism at hand, where we ought not judgeall others as being the same as ourselves. Whether Christian sinner or saint, we cannot say that all Christians are sinners still sinning, or all Christians are saints only doing righteousness...

None of my comments were directed towards a Gods judgements, only saints judgements.