Are you a monergist or a synergist?

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Which are you? Please vote only once and simply add 1 to the current total for what you choose.

  • Monergist Total = 0 Synergist Total= 0

    Votes: 1 50.0%

  • Monergist Total = 0 Synergist Total = 0

    Votes: 1 50.0%

  • Monergist Total = 0 Synergist Total = 0

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    2
  • Poll closed .
HeIsHere said:
Well maybe read the verses before and after.
And you will notice the the word κρίνεται can also be translated as "judgement" ... depends on the context.
I see no mention of hell, nor deserving.
Many times Jesus is speaking about temporal judgement not eternal.... in context this makes far more sense.
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I don't think so. Jesus is telling Nicodemus about the Kingdom of God: who will recognize it and who will be there. As we read and understand this passage, the bigger picture begins to emerge. Jesus is facing opposition from the spiritual leaders of his culture and he knows that his opposition is based on a refusal to acknowledge the truth of what they saw with their own eyes. Nicodemus saw it and recognized it; they saw it too but they refused to "see it."

If I use Joe's watch to tell him the time and Joe disagrees with me even while we are both looking at the same watch, then something is going on inside of Joe that Jesus is putting his finger on. Joe isn't mistaken; he is stubborn, and our disagreement isn't based on fact; it is based on something else. The more Joe refuses to acknowledge what we can both see with our eyes, the more stubborn he becomes. He is judged already; that is, he has convicted himself.

Jesus explicitly says in John 3:36, “He that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”(The wrath is not future only; it “abides”—present tense.) The Point is, there is no middle ground. Either you believe in the Son or you don't. (I'm not talking about you. I know you believe in him.)
 
Aaron56 said:
The redemption of the spirit is required not because it lacks anything but, rather, it is disconnected to from the Spirit of God. This is accomplished by resisting the Spirit of God because that's the connection: spirit to Spirit. Man's spirit is quickened when man (to illustrate a point) "gets out of the way".

Man is permitted to judge his own life to be dead.

"Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin... Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace."

This is accomplished when man stops believing that everything for a full life is within his ability to create or find. No: Creation testifies to a different reality: that God IS and that a full life can only be found in Him. Man does not know this before the quickening of his spirit. He only knows that his life is unable to be full in his own strength.

This is the "pride of life" stirred up by the enemy: a false sense of self-actualization. To continue in the delusion man must ignore the evidence seen in creation. Willful, intentional ignorance is active unbelief. It takes a lot of personal effort to remain in unbelief. That is why "atheism" is a fiction created by the enemy. In truth, the witness of God can be naturally perceived by unredeemed man. Claiming atheism is an additional lie to insulate man from the truth God arranged in the world that testifies of Him.
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I would say man's spirit is quickened which enables it to stop resisting.
 
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Everlasting-Grace said:
please show wheree I said I chose God.

I am sick and tired of being told I say something I have never said.
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Okay. But when I write a rhetorical sentence, I hope you don't expect me to get your approval in advance. Did you honestly believe I was talking about you personally?
Everlasting-Grace said:
in fact. I do not know anyone who says they chose God..
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Really? Every Christian in the world has heard the call to choose God. I'm surprised you have never heard the Evangelist call people forward to choose God.

Everlasting-Grace said:
The only time I aven here this is from a calvinist. or reformed person

The fatalistic gospel says God chose some, and he did not chose others.

based on nothing other than that God chose one person over another.
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You don't understand the New Testament if you think God's election is fatalistic. First of all, predestination isn't simply ordaining a person's outcome: heaven/hell. It is the ordaining of the entire arc of their story from birth to death.

Therefore, their final state is the logical, historical, narrative outcome of their story arc. Predestination is not fatalistic because it matters what we do, even if what we do has been scripted from the foundation of the earth.

Also, and this is important. God doesn't select people; he creates them. If a woman needs a pot, she goes to the store to select one from those available at the time based on her criteria. God doesn't select people like that. If God needs a pot he creates one, from scratch, and designs it based on the pot's intended purpose. In the New Testament, Election is NOT the same as selection; it's creation. The saints, the elect are the workmanship of God who crafts them according to his design and purpose.
 
Cameron143 said:
Correct. Men killed Jesus, but unseen, in the spiritual realm, God orchestrated the event. He chose the time...in the fulness of time...Galatians 4, He chose the method...Psalm 22.
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do not agree men killed Jesus ... although there are lots of folks who believe man could kill Him.

Matthew 26:47-54

47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.

48 Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.

49 And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.

50 And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.

51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.

52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

The Lord Jesus Christ willingly gave up His life ... no one could take it from Him.




Cameron143 said:
And we find this same pattern throughout the Bible. History is under divine control. It is following a divine plan and timetable. And it is concerned with the unfolding of the kingdom of God into the world. Regardless of what men do in the natural realm, God is controlling it from the spiritual realm.
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God knowing what satan would do and how satan would work is not the same as God "controlling" satan or anyone involved in that fiasco to do what satan or they did.

I do not believe it was God Who was "controlling" those who took the Lord Jesus Christ ... held a mockery of a trial ... offered false witness against Him ... spit on and beat Him ... ridiculed Him telling Him to prophesy "who beat You?" ... mocked Him ... all the horrible things that occurred from the moment He was taken from the garden until the time He uttered "It is finished" ... and even after the utterance because after the resurrection, soldiers were given large sums of money to say that His disciples came by night and took Him away while they slept.




Cameron143 said:
This is true from a macro perspective...Daniel 7 for example, and from a micro perspective...Ephesians 2. At all times, God is in control and guiding history for His purposes and to His glory.
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God working all things to His glory is not the same as God "controlling" those who resist to suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... nor does it equal God "controlling" those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

God said of Adam and Eve after the fall ... at that point mankind knew both good and evil.

natural man has the capacity to know good and does not have to automatically reject good, as some in this thread insist.

And just because a person does not suppress the truth in unrighteousness when someone teaches them the gospel of Christ ... that does not equal some sort of works salvation in which the person can glory as some in this thread insist ... that equals the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation doing exactly as God promised. God's Word is powerful ... God's Word is life ... God's Word is life-giving.

All glory and all honor are due solely to God.

.
 
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lrs68 said:
This merely proves that before Creation God created a Plan of Salvation because God made man and Angels with the ability to fall from Grace into darkness. Because God made man this way God provided a way to return back to Grace.
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yup. God knew Adam and Eve would sin ... He was not surprised when they sinned and He did not have to come up with a "plan" after the fact. The plan was laid in place from before the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

.
 
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reneweddaybyday said:
do not agree men killed Jesus ... although there are lots of folks who believe man could kill Him.

Matthew 26:47-54

47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.

48 Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.

49 And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.

50 And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.

51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.

52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

The Lord Jesus Christ willingly gave up His life ... no one could take it from Him.





God knowing what satan would do and how satan would work is not the same as God "controlling" satan or anyone involved in that fiasco to do what satan or they did.

I do not believe it was God Who was "controlling" those who took the Lord Jesus Christ ... held a mockery of a trial ... offered false witness against Him ... spit on and beat Him ... ridiculed Him telling Him to prophesy "who beat You?" ... mocked Him ... all the horrible things that occurred from the moment He was taken from the garden until the time He uttered "It is finished" ... and even after the utterance because after the resurrection, soldiers were given large sums of money to say that His disciples came by night and took Him away while they slept.





God working all things to His glory is not the same as God "controlling" those who resist to suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... nor does it equal God "controlling" those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

God said of Adam and Eve after the fall ... at that point mankind knew both good and evil.

natural man has the capacity to know good and does not have to automatically reject good, as some in this thread insist.

And just because a person does not suppress the truth in unrighteousness when someone teaches them the gospel of Christ ... that does not equal some sort of works salvation in which the person can glory as some in this thread insist ... that equals the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation doing exactly as God promised. God's Word is powerful ... God's Word is life ... God's Word is life-giving.

All glory and all honor are due solely to God.

.
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We can go to Daniel 7. Who caused the 4 empires to come into existence? The endeavor of men or the activity of God?
 
Cameron143 said:
I would say man's spirit is quickened which enables it to stop resisting.
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I see that the death of man, either physically or willfully, returns man’s spirit to God who gave it. If we die while we yet live, and our spirit is quickened by the Holy Spirit, we become part of the Christ: the One who bridges both the eternal and temporal. So we may live in both time and space and the eternal.
 
Aaron56 said:
I see that the death of man, either physically or willfully, returns man’s spirit to God who gave it. If we die while we yet live, and our spirit is quickened by the Holy Spirit, we become part of the Christ: the One who bridges both the eternal and temporal. So we may live in both time and space and the eternal.
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I believe God is the impetus for a relationship between Him and man. So while I can agree that if we die while we yet live, and our spirit is quickened, we become partakers of the divine nature and part of the body of Christ, I believe it is God who initiates this transaction and brings it to fruition.
 
Cameron143 said:
I believe God is the impetus for a relationship between Him and man. So while I can agree that if we die while we yet live, and our spirit is quickened, we become partakers of the divine nature and part of the body of Christ, I believe it is God who initiates this transaction and brings it to fruition.
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Yes. He did so by putting in man a deposit of His Spirit, just like Adam. Without this spirit man cannot be a living being.
 
Aaron56 said:
Yes. He did so by putting in man a deposit of His Spirit, just like Adam. Without this spirit man cannot be a living being.
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We probably think differently on what happened to man as a result of the fall. Like I said earlier, I believe every aspect of man was corrupted as a result of sin.
 
reneweddaybyday said:
Babylon
Medo-Persia
Greece
Rome

are we in agreement? If not, please identify what you believe are the 4 empires ... thanks.

.
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That's correct.

Did you notice what occurred in Daniel 7:2 before the beasts came up out of the sea in 7:3?
 
Cameron143 said:
We probably think differently on what happened to man as a result of the fall. Like I said earlier, I believe every aspect of man was corrupted as a result of sin.
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God told Adam to not eat of the tree because God knew he would surely die if he ate of it. But was the tree the cause of Adam's death, or did it stem from Adam's eating? That is, did the fall happen to man or did the man happen to fall? I'm not asking for answers here, just showing some different directions one might think.
 
Mem said:
God told Adam to not eat of the tree because God knew he would surely die if he ate of it. But was the tree the cause of Adam's death, or did it stem from Adam's eating? That is, did the fall happen to man or did the man happen to fall? I'm not asking for answers here, just showing some different directions one might think.
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Adam was in covenant relationship with God. It was a works based covenant with 1 requirement: don't eat. So man is responsible for sin. But God chose the judgement.

As God made Adam the representative for mankind, his fate passed upon us all.

What that fate is has been a matter of debate since. What actually happened to man? What is the extent of the corruption man suffered? One's answer to this question determines the extent to which one believes God need participate in man's salvation.
 
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Cameron143 said:
Adam was in covenant relationship with God. It was a works based covenant with 1 requirement: don't eat. So man is responsible for sin. But God chose the judgement.

As God made Adam the representative for mankind, his fate passed upon us all.

What that fate is has been a matter of debate since. What actually happened to man? What is the extent of the corruption man suffered? One's answer to this question determines the extent to which one believes God need participate in man's salvation.
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Through one man death entered into the world through sin, and bondage to sin through the fear of death, and God's "participation" in man's salvation involves the dissipation of that fear, through faith in the death, burial, and resurrection by which Jesus 'made a public spectacle of them having disarmed the powers and authorities triumphing over them by the cross (Col 2:15).'
 
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Mem said:
Through one man death entered into the world through sin, and bondage to sin through the fear of death, and God's "participation" in man's salvation involves the dissipation of that fear, through faith in the death, burial, and resurrection by which Jesus 'made a public spectacle of them having disarmed the powers and authorities triumphing over them by the cross (Col 2:15).'
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Sure. But none of this gets us any closer to God's role and man's in salvation.
 
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