Resolving Problematic Interpretations of Scripture

OMC said:

I’m old now, and the disabilities are heavy, but I look back and see the thread of God’s goodness running through every place I thought would break me. I grew up in an atheist home, most of my childhood marked by abuse instead of love. When I tried to find help in churches, I was hurt again. By my twenties I was in and out of jails, carrying wounds I didn’t even know how to name. In one of those cells I used to say I “found Jesus,” but now I know the truth: He found me when no one else was looking. I taught myself Scripture, spent years in libraries with nothing but a Bible and questions, and the Word became the first voice that didn’t lie to me or abandon me. I’ve been fighting the systems that crush people like I used to be, not because I’m strong, but because I know what it’s like to be broken and still called by God. And now, even with extreme disabilities, I can say without hesitation: God is good, and He knows — He knows the wounds, the years, the battles, and He has never once let go of me.

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Wow! Thanks for sharing. It is amazing grace that we who have such opposite testimonies agree so much!
You should appreciate my belief that our appreciation of heaven is inversely related to our suffering on earth,
comparable to how experience with art increases appreciation of artistic endeavors.

My next substantive post was #63:

U - unconditional election, meaning that souls need not satisfy a divine requirement such as faith or repentance, but God chooses to save some while damning the rest to hell.

The Scriptures teach the opposite, which is the F in MFW:

F – free faith, meaning that GRFS or condition for attaining righteousness is IF they believe in GW, which implies sinners are enabled by God to repent, seek salvation and believe the Gospel of Christ’s atonement–but they may resist divine grace.

A systematic study of the DOE might begin well by interpreting a proof-text that seems to be the fountainhead of the TULIP dogma, namely Romans 9:10-24, in the context of the rest of relevant Scripture in Romans regarding salvation/election (s/e), which is Romans 1-11. Here are the first five chapters focusing on U vs. F:

1. Romans 1:16 says the Gospel reveals that (s/e) is for “everyone who believes”, both Jew and Gentile. [IF whosoever believes]

2. Romans 1:17 describes s/e as “righteousness from God” that is by faith “from first to last” or from creation until the end. [IF whosoever believes from conversion until death]

3. Romans 2:4 teaches that God’s kindness or patience with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading. [IF whosoever repents of unbelief/ignoring GW]

4. Romans 2:5 warns that those who do not repent but instead stubbornly resist God’s leading are storing up wrath against themselves for the day when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed, which implies that God enables sinners to repent–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19). ["or not" signifies IF ]

5. Romans 2:6 affirms what is called karma by saying that “God will give to each person according to what he has done”, which (in Gal. 6:7-9) is called reaping what a person sows. [IF whosoever believes, then heaven, IF not--then hell]

6. Romans 2:7 speaks of the need for “persistence in doing good” and seeking glory, honor and immortality in order to receive s/e or eternal life, which echoes what Jesus commanded (in Matt. 7:7) and connects with the doctrine of perseverance (cf. Heb. 10:36 & Jam. 1:3-4). [IF whosoever perseveres in saving belief]

7. Romans 2:11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17), which is how God judges people justly, so the fact that some sinners ignore God’s Gospel indicates that His will or leading is resistible because of MFW. [resistible = or not = IF]

8. Romans 2:15 teaches that sinful souls have a conscience or awareness of “the requirements of the law”, which may be combined with Romans 1:20 to teach that God’s power and moral nature or will may be perceived via creation and conscience (called natural revelation), thus those unfamiliar with God’s Word in Scripture have no good reason for resisting divine leading and choosing atheism/evil. [resisting/choosing atheism is made possible by IF]

9. Romans 3:20-21 states the law makes souls conscious of sin and that “the Law and Prophets testify” or prepare the way for the new revelation of righteousness from God apart from the Law, which takes up where Romans 1:17 left off. [IF in the OT is found in Deut. 30:19]

10. Romans 3:22a says that “righteousness from God” or s/e comes through faith “in Jesus Christ” (cf. Eph. 2:8), a phrase Paul used eleven times in Ephesians 1:3-14 to indicate s/e. [IF = faith; in JC--or not/in self/Satan]

11. Romans 3:22b says that God’s righteousness is given “to all who believe—there is no difference”” signifying that all sinners may believe or be s/e (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16, Tit. 2:11), because there is no favoritism (#7). [may--or may not = IF]

12. Romans 3:23 teaches that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”, meaning that no one can be good enough to earn salvation because of their own merit. [thus IF must choose belief in JC]

13. Romans 3:24 says sinners “are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” (via faith per v.22, cf. 3:27-28); s/e is free because Christ paid the price/cost. [IF whosoever believes in JC]

14. Romans 3:25a explains redemption as being “a sacrifice of atonement” for those who have faith in Christ’s work of dying in their place. [IF whosoever believes in JC]

15. Romans 3:25b further explains that God demonstrated his just patience (#3) or forbearance in leaving unpunished those sins committed before the revealing of the Gospel (foreshadowed in Gen. 22:8 & 13), implying that sinners had/have the opportunity to believe and be s/e thereby demonstrating God’s justice/not showing favoritism (#11). [opportunity = IF ]

16. Romans 3:26 continues to emphasize divine justice by declaring it three ways (“justice…, just…, justifies”), which justness is synonymous with righteousness (2Thes. 1:5-6, Heb. 6:10). [IF indicates God's just judgment]

17. Romans 4:1-25 presents Abraham as a Gentile who became the physical father of the Jews and the spiritual father of all who choose to have faith in God/Christ. [Abe was the first to satisfy the condition of IF by believing in God]

18. Romans 5:1 echoes Eph. 2:8 by describing s/e as justification through faith, Eph. 1:5 & 7 by using the phrase “through Jesus Christ”, and Eph. 2:14 by describing s/e as having peace with God. [IF whosoever believes in JC]

Over when y'all have time and inclination to comment...

OMC said:

Romans 1:16 absolutely declares that the Gospel is God’s power “for everyone who believes,” but Paul is not defining who believes — he is defining how salvation is received; the phrase describes the instrument of salvation, not the source of belief.
In Paul’s own argument, “everyone who believes” includes both Jew and Gentile, but he immediately explains in Romans 3:11 that no one believes apart from grace, and in Romans 10:20 that God is the One who makes Himself “found by those who did not seek Him.”
So yes — salvation is genuinely offered to all, and whosoever believes is a real, open‑armed invitation; but Scripture also teaches that belief itself is given (Phil 1:29), authored (Heb 12:2), and produced by the Spirit’s work (Acts 16:14).
Paul’s point in Romans 1:16 is not that faith originates in human will, but that the Gospel saves all who believe — and then the rest of Romans explains how belief comes into existence.

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The source of belief is God, who created humanity in His image, which means with MFW or moral awareness/conscience and thus the responsibility to believe/have faith in His Word rather than Satan's lie.
As you know per your experience, God seeks to save souls, but some resist His will/are not truthseekers/lovers of truth (2Thes. 2:10).

OMC said:

Romans 1:17 does not teach “whosoever believes from conversion until death” as a human‑sustained condition but describes the righteousness of God being revealed “from faith to faith,” meaning that salvation is grounded in faith at the beginning and sustained by faith throughout the believer’s life — not because faith originates in human will, but because the God who justifies also preserves the faith He gives.
Paul is not saying salvation is available only if a person keeps believing until death; he is saying the entire saving work of God operates on the principle of faith from start to finish, which is why later in Romans he insists that faith itself is produced by God’s call (Rom 8:30), granted by grace (Phil 1:29), and upheld by the Spirit (Rom 8:13–14). “From first to last” describes the continuity of God’s saving method, not the fragility of human effort — and it is precisely this continuity that makes eternal life truly eternal.

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Actually, Paul may be saying both that God's method is faith from first to last and that salvation is received beginning with saving faith that perseveres until the end. The bolded part is an insight that I gained via discussions on CC:

The distinction between kerygma and didache involves a difference in content and purpose. The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time. The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime. A passage teaching this truth is Col. 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/living (Eph. 2:8-10, 1Cor. 15:10, 2Cor. 5:7, Rom. 1:17), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.

OMC said:

Romans 2:4 absolutely teaches that God’s kindness is meant to lead sinners toward repentance, but Paul is not saying sinners possess repentance in themselves; he is saying God’s patience is designed to bring them to it. The verb agein (“lead”) implies divine initiative, not human self‑generation, and Paul later clarifies that repentance itself is granted (2 Tim 2:25) and that the natural man does not seek God at all (Rom 3:11). So yes — God’s kindness genuinely invites whosoever repents, but the ability to repent is not native to the sinner; it is awakened by God’s leading. Romans 2:4 shows that repentance is possible because God draws, not because sinners possess the power to turn on their own.

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Yes, or perhaps more clearly, God intends for the sufferings during life on earth to teach sinners their need for His salvation.
Some folks learn that lesson (yay! Luke 15:7&10 :^), and some choose to continue in sinful ignorance/having a hard heart,
which chagrined/chafed(?) Jesus (per Matt. 13:14-15 & 23:37) and appalled Paul (in Acts 28:26-27).

OMC said:

Romans 2:5 does not teach that sinners possess an inherent ability to repent “or not,” but that stubborn refusal to repent in the face of God’s leading results in accumulated judgment; the contrast is not between two human powers but between God’s kindness that leads to repentance (Rom 2:4) and the sinner’s hardening that resists that leading. Paul’s logic is consistent: repentance is possible only because God initiates, draws, convicts, and grants it (2 Tim 2:25), yet sinners remain responsible for rejecting the light they already have (Rom 1:18–20). Deuteronomy 30:19 is not a statement of native human ability but a covenant appeal to Israel, who had already been acted upon by God’s redeeming power; the “choose life” command presupposes divine enablement, not autonomous capacity. Romans 2:5 shows real accountability, real guilt, and real judgment — but none of it implies that repentance originates in human will. It shows that when God leads, sinners either yield or harden, and the hardening is their sin, not evidence of independent ability.

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The ability/power to choose/learn to repent or not was God-given when He created humanity and is inherited by each accountable soul. The binary choice is between loving/cooperation with God's Word or ignoring Him. Sinners (atheists) who try to attain moral perfection by imitating divine love without giving God the glory actually go in the opposite direction.

IOW, Deut. 30:19 is an indication of God-given human ability to accept divine grace via cooperating with His way; doing it our way (a la Sinatra) is the wrong way.

OMC said:

Romans 2:6 does affirm that God “will render to each according to his works,” but Paul is not teaching a simple IF/THEN scheme of human‑generated belief; he is describing the judgment principle by which God evaluates lives that either manifest Spirit‑produced faith or persist in unbelief. In Romans 2:7–8, the “doing good” that leads to eternal life is the life shaped by Spirit‑wrought perseverance (cf. Rom 8:13–14), while the “evil” that leads to wrath is the stubborn refusal of God’s kindness (Rom 2:4–5). Paul is not saying humans autonomously choose belief or unbelief; he is saying God judges the visible fruit of an inward reality — and later in Romans he explains that faith itself is given (Rom 12:3), created by God’s call (Rom 8:30), and sustained by the Spirit. So yes, those who believe receive eternal life and those who do not face judgment, but the text never grounds this in human self‑generated ability; it grounds it in God’s righteous evaluation of lives shaped either by His grace or by persistent resistance.

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Yes, and don't you wish karma were instantaneous, so that whenever someone did something wrong they would get zapped?
Of course, God would need to zap souls as soon as their thoughts strayed, which would amount to creating robots. Hence the
need for delayed consequences/karma. (Speaking of which, more later :^).