Are you a monergist or a synergist?

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Which are you? Please vote only once and simply add 1 to the current total for what you choose.

  • Monergist Total = 0 Synergist Total = 0

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2
  • Poll closed .
Who is being described in Romans 3:10ff?
Romans 3:10 is describing every human being without exception — Jew and Gentile alike — as universally, comprehensively, and hopelessly sinful apart from God’s saving grace. Paul is not describing a subgroup, a culture, a class, or a type of sinner. He is describing all humanity in Adam.
 
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Romans 3:10 is describing every human being without exception — Jew and Gentile alike — as universally, comprehensively, and hopelessly sinful apart from God’s saving grace. Paul is not describing a subgroup, a culture, a class, or a type of sinner. He is describing all humanity in Adam.
I agree. I was hoping someone on the other side of the argument would answer. Fundamentally, the argument centers on the estate of the fallen natural man, and abilities he possesses. Until that is reconciled, the differences will remain.
 
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If God would have taken Adam's spirit from him when he sinned, Adam's body would have died at that moment. It was Adam's spirit, given by God, that made him "a living being" and kept life in his body until he died at 930 years old.

Can you explain what you understand by "quickened"?
Not quite.

Adam did die when he ate the forbidden fruit.
Yet, it was not physical death.
It was spiritual death.

When he ate he ceased functioning as body, soul, and human spirit.
He became in function only body and soul.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:6​

Unbelievers need to become born again.

That is why Jesus told Nicodemus he needed to be born again...
Telling him, that Spirit begets spirit.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

In that manner a man becomes what God always intended a man to be.
Body, soul, and human spirit.

Now in Scripture there is also a spirit of man spoken of.
Its usage is not spoken in reference to the human spirit, which is involved in spiritual matters.
Its usage has a different meaning.
More in line with manifesting the likes of a team having "school spirit."

grace and peace .......
 
Not quite.

Adam did die when he ate the forbidden fruit.
Yet, it was not physical death.
It was spiritual death.

When he ate he ceased functioning as body, soul, and human spirit.
He became in function only body and soul.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:6​

Unbelievers need to become born again.

That is why Jesus told Nicodemus he needed to be born again...
Telling him, that Spirit begets spirit.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

In that manner a man becomes what God always intended a man to be.
Body, soul, and human spirit.

Now in Scripture there is also a spirit of man spoken of.
Its usage is not spoken in reference to the human spirit, which is involved in spiritual matters.
Its usage has a different meaning.
More in line with manifesting the likes of a team having "school spirit."

grace and peace .......
I agree. I think I addressed this earlier. Thank you.
 
I agree. I was hoping someone on the other side of the argument would answer. Fundamentally, the argument centers on the estate of the fallen natural man, and abilities he possesses. Until that is reconciled, the differences will remain.
I think I answered “Anyone who has a body of flesh.” Could have been another thread.
 
I think I answered “Anyone who has a body of flesh.” Could have been another thread.
I take that to be all humanity before they are saved. What I'm trying to understand from your perspective is what occurs in the life of one such unbeliever that results in their salvation. Is it simply a matter of the individual employing their natural faculties, God creating in the individual the faculties that results in salvation, or a combination of the two?
 
I take that to be all humanity before they are saved. What I'm trying to understand from your perspective is what occurs in the life of one such unbeliever that results in their salvation. Is it simply a matter of the individual employing their natural faculties, God creating in the individual the faculties that results in salvation, or a combination of the two?
That’s a good question.

I just returned home from a charity auction where we raise financial support for kids with cancer. I hope to write out the answer to your question tomorrow morning before my flight to D.C. ✈️
 
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What prevented an unsaved person from believing before God's grace made him able?


I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh, for I have the desire
to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Romans 7:18​

Before salvation the soul was dominated by the sin nature found in the flesh.
The unsaved soul cannot have the body to do what is righteous.

But after we are saved?
We are told that we must walk in the Spirit to prevent the flesh from ruining our ability to live for God.

So? When God is drawing us by grace.
In order for our souls to be made free to believe in Jesus?
That grace is preventing the flesh from dominating our soul.

Without grace?
Our souls could never have believed.

That is why when we are saved?
We were saved by grace!
 
I agree. I was hoping someone on the other side of the argument would answer. Fundamentally, the argument centers on the estate of the fallen natural man, and abilities he possesses. Until that is reconciled, the differences will remain.
But you are well aware that Paul is documented by Luke in the Book of Acts as stating God created man with the ability to seek after and find God. It's true that Paul also said that man doesn't do that. But this Doctrine about man not being able to seek God should he want to proves man has the inate ability to do so and isn't as incapable as the Tulip Doctrine proclaims.

This also proves free will that man can and is able to seek God but man refuses to.
 
No. He begins chapter 9 with the premise that "the adoption as sons" belongs to his kinsmen. He goes on to show, even though that is true, God still chooses individuals for that purpose. "The Adoption as sons" is Paul's idiom indicating individual election. The question is, Who is a "son" with respect to the question of inheritance. Who stands to inherit eternal life? In this chapter, Paul summarizes them as "children of promise," and he cites Isaac and Ishmael. Isaac was/is a child of promise.
No this is not true.

Dan 9 - 11 is Paul explaining that God did not make a mistake chosing Israel as his chosen nation. That he did not chose them by human means, everything he did was according to his plan. even chosing them before the two children were born

And in the end (chapter 11) Israel will repent. and God will restore them, and his plan for chosing them all along will be fulfilled


It is not an argument to defend God's intelligence; it's an argument to defend God's faithfulness. "Has the word of God failed?" That is the issue.
Well did it?

Did he not tell us the gentiles would come in after Israel failed?

25 As He says also in Hosea:

“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”

26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

I agree. It's about who will receive God's blessing and who won't. God decided to bless Jacob and not Esau, and his decision predated their existence. It does NOT depend on the man who wills or the man who runs but on God who has mercy.
Yes. and what was Jacobs gift? A nation called by his name.
 
There is no Good News unless it is personal... that includes Christ Jesus died for you.
If I told a stranger that the Lord Jesus died for them, I would be a liar. I don't know who the Lord Jesus died for, but I do know that it's not for the majority of the world, since the Lord Jesus will cast the majority of mankind into the lake of fire while they beg Him for mercy.

I don't want anyone's blood on my hands, so I would never dare tell someone that Jesus died for them. Imagine how inconvenient that would be for the Lord Jesus, when He hears them say "but I was told you died for me and that you loved me". The Lord would have to reply, "he lied to you" as He casts them into the lake of fire.

The gospel is not good news for most, in fact it's the worst news most will ever hear. The gospel is only good news for Gods elect, to us it is a sweet smelling aroma, but it has the stench of a corpse to the reprobate. I don't know who the elect are and I don't know who the reprobate are, so I preach the same gospel to every creature.
 
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It does not say we are saved by faith.
It says we are saved by grace.
Faith is manifested only because grace was present to make the faith possible.

Here is what it actually says.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."
Ephesians 2:8-9

It says what?
"Through faith."
not... "By faith."

LOOK!

For it is by grace you have been saved,


Faith is looked for by God as his test to see if his grace was not resisted.

Grace is God's power to be what we cannot be in our natural power as men.
Grace is enabling power from God to fallen man.
Grace is power that we cannot naturally possess.

But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may
rest on me."
2 Corinthians 12:9

We repeat too much we have heard being said, and not taking the time to see how it is read!
None of that is true, because it's all based on the Arminian "saved by works" version of the gospel. And not on truth of the gospel as we have it in the Bible.

Jacob Arminius taught that faith is something a sinner cultivates on their own, and God choses them because they managed to produce their own faith or "fruit". But the Bible exposes this view as false.
The true gospel message teaches that people are spiritually dead and cannot choose God on their own. Grace means God gives a free gift that no one can earn or deserve. By adding human requirements, such as man made faith to "earn" a place with God destroys the true meaning of grace.

Faith does not pay for sin or add value to salvation. The Holy Spirit must first change a person's heart, an act called regeneration. Because of this inner work, even the faith to believe is a gift from God, not a natural human achievement.
 
and you just proved once again what I said about you earlier

When your ready to be humble. let me know.. maybe we can talk. Until then..
What you said about me earlier was nonsense, as it was not based on any facts or evidence. I love correction, but you haven't offered any as yet and your throw aways lines are not correction at all.
 
But you are well aware that Paul is documented by Luke in the Book of Acts as stating God created man with the ability to seek after and find God. It's true that Paul also said that man doesn't do that. But this Doctrine about man not being able to seek God should he want to proves man has the inate ability to do so and isn't as incapable as the Tulip Doctrine proclaims.

This also proves free will that man can and is able to seek God but man refuses to.
Where does Paul state as you have claimed?

Read James 4:13-15. Does this espouse free will?
 
Where does Paul state as you have claimed?

Read James 4:13-15. Does this espouse free will?
Acts 17:
26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
27 that they should seek God, and feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,

That's free will capability no matter how much someone will try to twist it.

Bottom line are the blue words... mankind was made to be able to seek, feel towards, even find God
 
Jonah still chose to do what God wanted.

God did not force jonah to go to nineva
Cmon brother!

God literally killed him!! Had a giant fish spit him on to land! What else could God have done before you would say he wasn’t forced?

Jonah was bitterly angry with Nineveh because the Assyrians were incredibly brutal in their destruction and enslavement of Israel, the Northern Kingdom.

That explains why Jonah didn’t want to deliver God’s message. Because as he said, “I knew You would show mercy to them”

He basically went into the city and said “30 days and you’re toast. Bye”.
 
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No this is not true.

Dan 9 - 11 is Paul explaining that God did not make a mistake chosing Israel as his chosen nation. That he did not chose them by human means, everything he did was according to his plan. even chosing them before the two children were born
Look at the opening of Paul's argument again. What is his main concern?

9 I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, 5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

to whom belongs the adoption as sons

Here the Apostle asserts that the adoption as son, personal salvation, belongs to his kinsmen by virtue of a promise he made to them as his adopted sons. Paul’s claim in Romans 9:4 is grounded in three Old Testament moments where God publicly adopts Israel:

  1. Exodus 4:22–23 — God declares Israel “My son, My firstborn.”
  2. Deuteronomy 14:1 — “You are sons of the LORD your God.”
  3. Hosea 11:1 — “Out of Egypt I called My son.”
These passages establish Israel’s covenant identity as God’s adopted son—an identity Paul summarizes with the term adoption (huiothesia).

Given this as background, Paul's opponents will argue that Paul's gospel can't be true because only a limited segment of Jewish culture is being saved. Paul needs to argue that according to the scriptures, it was God's intent from the beginning to grant eternal life to the children of promise, as Paul puts it. st, and therefore to all who are in Christ—who receive eternal life as the inheritance.

And in the end (chapter 11) Israel will repent. and God will restore them, and his plan for chosing them all along will be fulfilled
Right. But before we look ahead to chapter 11, we must understand Paul's argument here in chapter 9. In order to prove that God's promise to Israel was never intended to have universal application to each and every person in Israel, he cites the Scriptures where God is sorting one natural-born son of Abraham from another. He concludes that the children of the promise are those whom God chooses, he chooses them before they are born, they are created to serve a purpose, and he circumcises their hearts.

This is very familiar language for those who read the New Testament Epistles because Paul employs these same categories to speak about those outside the commonwealth of Israel.
Well did it?

Did he not tell us the gentiles would come in after Israel failed?
No. The passage in Hosea is talking about the Northern Kingdom of Israel. As you might recall, the nation of Israel divided itself into two kingdoms: the Northern ten tribes and the Southern two tribes. The northern kingdom was called "Israel" and the Southern Kingdom was called "Judah"

Hosea records God's word against the Northern Tribe, calling them "not my people" Later in Hosea, God decides to remarry the Northern kingdom of Israel and at that time Israel will once again be called "sons of the Living God."

Hosea is not talking about Gentiles. He is talking about the Northern Ten Tribes in that context.
 
Acts 17:
26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
27 that they should seek God, and feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,

That's free will capability no matter how much someone will try to twist it.

Bottom line are the blue words... mankind was made to be able to seek, feel towards, even find God
That's not what the verse is teaching. Paul is saying that God has configured contours of people's lives...when they live, where they live...that He may be sought and found. In other words, no one can blame God for not creating the best conditions to be i in relationship with Him. It says nothing about the estate of fallen man.

Did you read the verses in James? Have you read Acts 2:23? Daniel 7? All these verses relate to us the unseen hand of God orchestrating history...even our personal history...He isn't far from any of us.