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Watchman22

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Dec 9, 2025
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There is a twin activity going on in the Christian.
1) The dying of " the old self."
2) The building of the " new life."

The "price tag", on salvation.... is "Lordship".

In the Greek, " The Lord is my shepherd ", means, Absolute, total, complete, nothing held back, " Mastery. "
 
Watchman22 said:
There is a twin activity going on in the Christian.
1) The dying of " the old self."
2) The building of the " new life."

The "price tag", on salvation.... is "Lordship".

In the Greek, " The Lord is my shepherd ", means, Absolute, total, complete, nothing held back, " Mastery. "
Click to expand...

The church are those that he chosen out of the world. On whom He will inscribe His name.

Christ is formed in our hearts by faith. By conviction, by reliance upon Him, by being committed unto Him, by a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

The same life that raised Jesus from the tomb, comes into us.
 
Watchman22 said:
The church are those that he chosen out of the world. On whom He will inscribe His name.

Christ is formed in our hearts by faith. By conviction, by reliance upon Him, by being committed unto Him, by a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

The same life that raised Jesus from the tomb, comes into us.
Click to expand...

We are told 5 things to do in Psalms 37: 1, 7, 8.
1) trust in the Lord. ( run to the shelter of a rock, lean on a staff with all your weight behind it.)
2) Feed on His faithfulness.
3) Delight yourself in the Lord.
4) Commit your way to the Lord. ( roll off your burdens onto Him.)
5) Cease from anger, and forsake wrath.
 
Watchman22 said:
We are told 5 things to do in Psalms 37: 1, 7, 8.
1) trust in the Lord. ( run to the shelter of a rock, lean on a staff with all your weight behind it.)
2) Feed on His faithfulness.
3) Delight yourself in the Lord.
4) Commit your way to the Lord. ( roll off your burdens onto Him.)
5) Cease from anger, and forsake wrath.
Click to expand...

This describes service to Jesus, which is great. What about how you become born again? I.e believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life?
 
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Watchman22 said:
There is a twin activity going on in the Christian.
1) The dying of " the old self."
2) The building of the " new life."

The "price tag", on salvation.... is "Lordship".

In the Greek, " The Lord is my shepherd ", means, Absolute, total, complete, nothing held back, " Mastery. "
Click to expand...
There is no Saviorhood without Lordship.
 
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Watchman22 said:
We are told 5 things to do in Psalms 37: 1, 7, 8.
1) trust in the Lord. ( run to the shelter of a rock, lean on a staff with all your weight behind it.)
2) Feed on His faithfulness.
3) Delight yourself in the Lord.
4) Commit your way to the Lord. ( roll off your burdens onto Him.)
5) Cease from anger, and forsake wrath.
Click to expand...

God, to be God has no needs.....
But most of Christianity raises money based on need....
The churches reduce God down to a beggar of money...
Need is not the criteria....
 
wattie said:
Everytime i will. Its the most important part from being lost to saved.
Click to expand...

It's a big subject that gets even bigger when I tell you the words believe, believer, and believing, are mistranslations.

Those mistranslated words have created a false path, that requires an understanding of Jesus and His word, that is mistakenly understood to produce receiving the Spirit of Christ.

The Greek word responsible for all this is pisteuo, the corresponding verb to the noun pistis. The English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun faith like the Greek does.

The correct understanding of the faith that saves, and the correct response to the callnof the Father, is " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ". The Vines: the Strongs is reliance upon, committed unto, to be committed unto.
 
Watchman22 said:
God, to be God has no needs.....
But most of Christianity raises money based on need....
The churches reduce God down to a beggar of money...
Need is not the criteria....
Click to expand...

The word " witness " means martyr. And we as martyrs are to ship worth, that you could invest on yourself. But you deny yourself that investment to testify and ship worth (worship, worth -ship) to God.
As you martyr a little bit of your pleasure to testify to Gods worth.... In your giving....
 
Watchman22 said:
The word " witness " means martyr. And we as martyrs are to ship worth, that you could invest on yourself. But you deny yourself that investment to testify and ship worth (worship, worth -ship) to God.
As you martyr a little bit of your pleasure to testify to Gods worth.... In your giving....
Click to expand...
The Greek word martys does indeed come to mean “martyr” in later Christian usage, but in the New Testament its primary meaning is a witness who testifies, not someone who sacrifices pleasure or performs devotional self‑denial, and Scripture never builds a theology of worship on the idea of “martyring a little bit of yourself.” Worship is not “worth‑ship” through personal deprivation; it is the ascription of God’s worth through obedience, truth, and Spirit‑led devotion (John 4:23–24). Giving can be an act of worship, but not because you “martyr” part of your pleasure — it is worship because you acknowledge God’s worth and respond to His grace. The danger in your explanation is that it shifts the center of worship from God’s revealed worth to your personal sacrifice, and that reverses the biblical direction: we testify because God is worthy, not because we diminish ourselves.
 
Watchman22 said:
It's a big subject that gets even bigger when I tell you the words believe, believer, and believing, are mistranslations.

Those mistranslated words have created a false path, that requires an understanding of Jesus and His word, that is mistakenly understood to produce receiving the Spirit of Christ.

The Greek word responsible for all this is pisteuo, the corresponding verb to the noun pistis. The English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun faith like the Greek does.

The correct understanding of the faith that saves, and the correct response to the callnof the Father, is " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ". The Vines: the Strongs is reliance upon, committed unto, to be committed unto.
Click to expand...

Well, a life inspired by personal surrender to Jesus would not be eternal salvation, but the reasonable response to already being given eternal life.

Eternal salvation is a free gift of God, not by works.
 
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Aussie52 said:
There is no Saviorhood without Lordship.
Click to expand...
I agree. If somebody says, "Jesus Christ is my Saviour but not my Lord," they are talking about a different Jesus Christ thatn the one in the Bible. There, 116 verses refer to Him as "Lord Jesus" or "Lord Jesus Christ." The Philippian jailer was told:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31)
 
DavidLamb said:
I agree. If somebody says, "Jesus Christ is my Saviour but not my Lord," they are talking about a different Jesus Christ thatn the one in the Bible. There, 116 verses refer to Him as "Lord Jesus" or "Lord Jesus Christ." The Philippian jailer was told:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31)
Click to expand...
What you’ve said is true in one sense but dangerous in another.
Yes — anyone who claims, “Jesus is my Savior but not my Lord,” is speaking of a different Jesus than the one revealed in Scripture.
The apostles never preach a divided Christ. They never present a Jesus who saves but does not rule, who forgives but does not command, who redeems but does not reign.
The New Testament calls Him Lord Jesus or Lord Jesus Christ more than a hundred times, and when the Philippian jailer cried out for salvation, Paul did not say, “Believe on Jesus the Savior,” but “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.” That matters.
It exposes the system‑thinking that tries to carve Christ into pieces — Savior now, Lord later; forgiveness now, obedience optional. Scripture chastises that attitude because it treats Christ as a commodity rather than the living God.
The Lordship of Christ is not an upgrade; it is His identity.
To believe in Him is to bow to Him.
To trust Him is to submit to Him.
To receive Him is to acknowledge Him as the One who owns you.
A divided Christ is no Christ at all.
 
OMC said:
What you’ve said is true in one sense but dangerous in another.
Yes — anyone who claims, “Jesus is my Savior but not my Lord,” is speaking of a different Jesus than the one revealed in Scripture.
The apostles never preach a divided Christ. They never present a Jesus who saves but does not rule, who forgives but does not command, who redeems but does not reign.
The New Testament calls Him Lord Jesus or Lord Jesus Christ more than a hundred times, and when the Philippian jailer cried out for salvation, Paul did not say, “Believe on Jesus the Savior,” but “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.” That matters.
It exposes the system‑thinking that tries to carve Christ into pieces — Savior now, Lord later; forgiveness now, obedience optional. Scripture chastises that attitude because it treats Christ as a commodity rather than the living God.
The Lordship of Christ is not an upgrade; it is His identity.
To believe in Him is to bow to Him.
To trust Him is to submit to Him.
To receive Him is to acknowledge Him as the One who owns you.
A divided Christ is no Christ at all.
Click to expand...
I agree with what you have written, and I thought my post did too, so I am unsure in what way you can say that what I wrote was dangerous in any way. I certainly never suggested that it was right to carve Jesus into pieces. "Lord" is Who He is.
 
wattie said:
Well, a life inspired by personal surrender to Jesus would not be eternal salvation, but the reasonable response to already being given eternal life.

Eternal salvation is a free gift of God, not by works.
Click to expand...
Amen! Confusing the fruit of salvation (a life inspired by personal surrender to Jesus/acts of obedience/good works) with the root of salvation (faith) seems to be a big problem for many. Prior to my conversion several years ago while attending a church that clearly taught salvation by faith AND WORKS, I was also very confused about this matter and if someone asked what faith "is" I would have told them that faith not only involves believing, but faith "is" multiple acts of obedience, faith "is" works. Recently, on a different Christian forum, I have been dealing with multiple folks who confuse the fruit of salvation with the root of salvation as demonstrated by some of their statements below:

When we obey by faith it means our obedience is our faith.
It actually does mean obedience is the very essence of faith.
Obedience of faith means faith and obedience are one and the same action.
It’s called the obedience of faith.
Obedience is part of the definition of faith.
By faith = by obedience
Justified by works (obedience) is justified by faith. :oops:

This is a major stumbling block which keeps folks from placing their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and instead, keeps them trusting in works for salvation. ⚠️
 
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DavidLamb said:
I agree with what you have written, and I thought my post did too, so I am unsure in what way you can say that what I wrote was dangerous in any way. I certainly never suggested that it was right to carve Jesus into pieces. "Lord" is Who He is.
Click to expand...
No, no, there’s a system that breaks Christ into pieces as I described. I wasn’t referring to you, my friend, just to the system that claims that.
 
mailmandan said:
Amen! Confusing the fruit of salvation (a life inspired by personal surrender to Jesus/acts of obedience/good works) with the root of salvation (faith) seems to be a big problem for many. Prior to my conversion several years ago while attending a church that clearly taught salvation by faith AND WORKS, I was also very confused about this matter and if someone asked what faith "is" I would have told them that faith not only involves believing, but faith "is" multiple acts of obedience, faith "is" works.
Click to expand...
What you’ve said is true in its instinct but needs to be sharpened by Scripture so it doesn’t drift back into the very system that once confused you.
You’re right: confusing the fruit of salvation with the root of salvation is one of the most common errors in the church, and it produces exactly the bondage you described — a life where “faith” becomes a bundle of works, a checklist of obedience, a performance of surrender.
I lived through that system myself, and Scripture had to chastise my thinking the same way it chastised yours.
Faith is the root — the God‑given trust in Christ.
Obedience is the fruit — the Spirit‑produced life that grows from that root.
When a system merges the two, it destroys both: faith becomes works, and works become the condition of salvation.
But when Scripture speaks, it keeps the categories clean.
The thief on the cross had root without time for fruit, and Christ declared him saved.
Abraham believed God, and that was counted to him for righteousness — long before circumcision, long before Isaac, long before the works that proved his faith.
So I say this kindly: your testimony is a reminder that systems enslave, but Scripture liberates.
Faith is not “multiple acts of obedience.” Faith is trusting Christ. Obedience is what that trust produces.
 
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OMC said:
What you’ve said is true in its instinct but needs to be sharpened by Scripture so it doesn’t drift back into the very system that once confused you.
You’re right: confusing the fruit of salvation with the root of salvation is one of the most common errors in the church, and it produces exactly the bondage you described — a life where “faith” becomes a bundle of works, a checklist of obedience, a performance of surrender.
I lived through that system myself, and Scripture had to chastise my thinking the same way it chastised yours.
Faith is the root — the God‑given trust in Christ.
Obedience is the fruit — the Spirit‑produced life that grows from that root.
When a system merges the two, it destroys both: faith becomes works, and works become the condition of salvation.
But when Scripture speaks, it keeps the categories clean.
The thief on the cross had root without time for fruit, and Christ declared him saved.
Abraham believed God, and that was counted to him for righteousness — long before circumcision, long before Isaac, long before the works that proved his faith.
So I say this kindly: your testimony is a reminder that systems enslave, but Scripture liberates.
Faith is not “multiple acts of obedience.” Faith is trusting Christ. Obedience is what that trust produces.
Click to expand...
Amen! In Matthew 27:39-43, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests' scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and even the robbers who were crucified with Him reviled Him with the same thing. *Yet, moments later, we see that one of the thieves had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Christ for salvation and was saved. (Luke 23:40-43)

Now, there was not enough time for the thief to accomplish multiple acts of obedience/works in those final moments before his death, yet the thief acknowledged his guilt, defended Jesus and placed his faith in Him for salvation and was saved. That was enough to demonstrate his faith.

In Matthew 12:37, Jesus said - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words reveal the condition of our hearts. Words are evidence for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness, as we see below:

Luke 23:39 - Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.” - by your words you will be condemned.

Luke 23:40 - But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” - by your words you will be justified.
 
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