Scriptural evidence of resurrections is not proof that the soul or spirit remains alive after the body has died.
A resurrection is to bring back to life that which has died.
Bible newcomer perplexed
- Thread starter searchfortruth
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A resurrection is to bring back to life that which has died.
I've already shared with you
Ecclesiastes 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Then you have to remember what Jesus said in
John 6:63 - It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
The word for "spirit" in Eccl 12:7 is "ruah" in the original Hebrew. It means breath.
It is the breath of life given to humans as well as animals, birds, bugs, fish....
Not some conscious non-corporial mass floating around in space.
Trying to make some biblical texts false by your redefinition of other verses is never a good idea.
The word for "spirit" in the Greek NT is "pneuma". Also air or breath
The bible tells us the dead are in a state of:
Perpetual sleep, do not awake - Jer 51:57
Have no thoughts - Psa 146:4
Have no emotions, no knowledge, no wisdom - Ecc 9:5-6 & 10
Cannot praise God - Isa 33:18
King David has yet to ascend into heaven - Acts 2:29&34
Paul knew he would have to wait in the grave until Jesus comes to receive his crown - II Tim 4:6-8
So did Job - Job 19:26
Trying to say otherwise in any way, shape or form goes against the scriptures.
I think you need to research the word "ruah" again. Here's what I have found:
The word ruach is polysemous — meaning it has multiple related meanings. In this case, it refers to:
- Breath
- Wind
- Spirit
Firstly in Romans, from my understanding, it explains that God demanded that His own son Jesus die. Yes, it was for the sins of humanity in order that they could be born again, and yes, Jesus would be resurrected...but He still demanded that Jesus undergo an extremely painful death for what could be seen as a project of his father's (i.e. saving humanity). I find it troubling that the compassionate God would sacrifice his own son as a means of achieving his ends. How can this be explained?”
younhave to read the beginning . God created man gave them dominion upon the earth and then told them to follow evil will certainly lead to death , to follow his word would certainly lead to life .
later you see mankind has all followed evil and become corrupted in thier hearts by it so that man became like this from evils effect
“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
Psalm 14:2-3 KJV
So in the big picture all humanity has become corrupt and they will all die … why ? Because they followed evil and it corrupted them like god earned mankind to begin with . Do what does a good living God do ? He’s already declared “to sin is to die “ and all humanity has become sinful so thier doomed right ?
age earned then so they deserve death but he loves humanity . Does he simply allow them to continue evil ? Lying to one another killing each other stealing and hurting others ? Or does he have a plan to redeem them to his image and likeness ? From death to life ? Sin to righteousness ?
he said if mankind sins they must die …..he was born a man did not sin and died on behalf of the sinners who were judged guilty and condemned to death by his word beforehand .
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh and blood of mankind ( the sons of God originally ) and he came as an atonement and propitiation for mans sins
We sinned and deserve death Jesus loved right and deserved eternal life never sinning which is why men die. So he gave willingly his life and earning of righteousness and life according to gods word in exchange for our sinfulness and deserving of death
he fulfilled the curse of death for sin because he’s trying to open our eyes and give us life though none deserve it by thier own goodness and deeds . He’s given us a new covenant the gospel of Jesus Christ to belong to him by
to summarize look at it like a king who saw his people going to surely die and instead of running and hiding or protecting himself he stepped of the throne became one of them and took upon himself thier death sentance while offering them eternal life which he earned through his righteousness according to the same ancient word which cirsed all sinners it gives life to the righteous
Then ask yourself why would God bring back corrupt flesh.
Jesus is the example of the resurrection. He passed through walls. He appeared and vanished. He also ate, and walked and talked and remembered the past events and conversations.
Then he ascended. From corrupt body to a new body. Paul said before he ascended he descended.
There is no good thing in the flesh of man.
I agree with you that ruach in Ecclesiastes 12:7 and pneuma in the New Testament can mean “breath,” but I can’t follow you to the conclusion that the human spirit is nothing more than air and that the dead exist only as unconscious sleep.
Scripture uses ruach and pneuma in multiple ways — breath, wind, life‑force, inner person, and even the immaterial aspect of human identity — and the meaning is determined by context, not by a single lexical definition.
Yes, the body returns to dust and the breath of life returns to God (Eccl 12:7), but Jesus also says, “God is not the God of the dead, but of the living” (Matt 22:32), and He uses that statement to affirm the ongoing existence of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Paul says to be “absent from the body” is to be “present with the Lord” (2 Cor 5:8), which cannot describe unconscious non‑existence. The passages you listed about sleep, silence, and lack of activity describe the body in death, not the annihilation of the person.
David not ascending to heaven in Acts 2:29–34 refers to resurrection, not to the non‑existence of his spirit.
Job’s hope in Job 19:26 is resurrection, not soul‑sleep.
This is not redefining Scripture — I’m letting all of Scripture speak. The Bible does teach that the dead await resurrection, but it does not teach that the human spirit ceases to exist or becomes unconscious breath floating in the air.
When did I ever say "God brings back corrupt flesh"?
I Cor 15:51-54 shows God's people are changed from mortal/corruptible to immortal/incorruptible. Including the resurrected dead.
And Jesus was resurrected fully in the flesh, NOT just some incorporeal spirit.
The idea that Jesus was punished in our place, called Penal substitutionary atonement, is a rather modern concept proposed by reformation lawyers who became preachers. They read scripture through their legal training lens. However, I don’t think scripture teaches that Jesus needed to suffer the punishment we deserved, so that we could no longer be charged with our sins.
Jesus is said to have borne our sins. This “borne” IMO is in a similar sense to someone bearing an unruly crowd’s abuse. They are not becoming the one being held accountable for the mob’s abuse. They are suffering the abuse that the mob is pouring onto them. Jesus was sent into the world to demonstrate a perfectly good life and how to achieve it. But God knew that humans and demons would resented His superior goodness, and would want His shaming presence wiped off the planet. And yet, Jesus needed to hold fast to doing good no matter how painful, humiliating and gory the consequences might be. God did not require our Lord’s blood shed to appease His displeasure with mankind. His submission to the shedding of His own blood by His creatures was necessary to demonstrate to us the depth of our own corruption in our pillorying a perfect and innocent man, and to demonstrate His long-suffering and loving-kindness towards us, despite our manifest corruption, offering us forgiveness before, during and after His suffering and death at our hands. He was the innocent scapegoat that we blamed for all the suffering we had caused. God intended that this scapegoating of His Son by us would so shock us that we would want to resile from ever behaving with such dishonour to anyone else ever again, and to grab hold of His offer of mercy and reconciliation.
No, not being a lawyer I don’t read into scripture that God needed to punish someone to assuage His outrage, and that Jesus took that whooping from God to exhaust God’s rage, so that He would no longer desire to do the same to us and we could escape our whooping..
Isaiah says something different
Isa 53:3 He is despised H959 and rejected H2310 of men; H376 a man H376 of sorrows, H4341 and acquainted H3045 with grief: H2483 and we hid H4564 as it were our faces H6440 from H4480 him; he was despised, H959 and we esteemed H2803 him not. H3808
Isa 53:4 Surely H403 he H1931 hath borne H5375 our griefs, H2483 and carried H5445 our sorrows: H4341 yet we H587 did esteem H2803 him stricken, H5060 smitten H5221 of God, H430 and afflicted. H6031
Isa 53:5 But he H1931 was wounded H2490 for our transgressions, H4480 H6588 he was bruised H1792 for our iniquities: H4480 H5771 the chastisement H4148 of our peace H7965 was upon H5921 him; and with his stripes H2250 we are healed. H7495
Awesome scripture, God-fearing!
"Is. 53:3 He is despised H959 and rejected H2310 of men” - Men were the one’s despising Him, not God.
"a man H376 of sorrows, H4341 and acquainted H3045 with grief” - He truly deeply and consciously suffered real sorrows and real grief.
"and we hid H4564 as it were our faces H6440 from H4480 him” - it was man who turned away from Jesus during His passion, not God.
"he was despised, H959 and we esteemed H2803 him not. H3808” - It was man, not God, who despised Jesus and did not value Him.
"Isa 53:4 Surely H403 he H1931 hath borne H5375 our griefs, H2483 and carried H5445 our sorrows” -
Jesus knows exactly what our griefs and sorrows are like, because He suffered the same kinds of griefs and sorrows as we do.
" H4341 yet we H587 did esteem H2803 him stricken, H5060 smitten H5221 of God, H430 and afflicted. H6031” - men thought Jesus was being sticken and afflicted by God, but it was men doing it to Him, not God.
"Isa 53:5 But he H1931 was wounded H2490 out of (prefix Mi-) our transgressions, H4480 H6588 “: “When He was being wounded, we were transgressing against Him to wound Him.
"he was bruised H1792 out of/from (prefix Mi) our iniquities: H4480 H5771” - when He was being bruised, we were committingb iniquities against Him to bruise Him.
“ the chastisement H4148 of/that resulted in our peace H7965 was upon H5921 him” - The chastisement we inflicted on Him brought us peace with God, bcause we learned that even though we treated Him so unjustly and cruelly, even after that he still offers us reconciliation. His magnanimous grace convinced us to reconcile with Him.
" and with his stripes H2250 we are healed. H7495” - "and in/at/by/with (prefix Bi-) His stripes we are healed.” - By learning that He allowed Himself to be whipped, tortured and murdered by us without God striking us down, but continuing to seek reconciliation with us, we are convinced to reconcile with God and so become healed.
So, one does not need to believe in penal substitutionary atonement to make sense of Is 53:3-5.
Those r some big questions to powerful points . The only real answers will come to u from reading your Bible every day , it is like most books , it opens up to u gradually . I'm sure u have noticed how big it is , there is a lot of information in there and u can't expect to read and understand it all immediately . I've been reading the Bible everyday for 30 years and I'm still discovering treasure !
With specific regards to your questions , u need to understand the concept of sin and attonement and , this wasn't something that came easily to me either so don't worry . The best place to learn about that is in the Old Testament , especially the first 5 books , read them in order .
With regard to non believers suffering eternal torment in a place called hell , where does it specifically say that ? Hell is somewhere that is eternal , the damnation of atheists and idolators is eternal . But where does it say that the souls of atheists and idolators will b tortured for eternity ?
From what I can understand , the wages of sin is death . That's a direct Bible quote . Before sin entered into our lives , there was no death ( read Genesis ) . We DIE because we sin . Death is the cessation of life , completely . The spirit returns to God who gave it ( another direct quote ) and the flesh disintegrates . U will find out what happens to those who have heard the Gospel and either followed Jesus or not , in 1st Corinthians Ch 15 . These r my beliefs based on 30 years of reading the entire Bible . Others have different beliefs and I'm sure they will tell u all about them and give u passages to back them up . 1st Timothy Ch 6 tells us that only Jesus has , at that time and therefore also this time , immortality ( another direct quote ) surely if people were alive and in hell being tortured , they must b immortal mustn't they ? But they r not , as we have read in 1st Timothy , only Jesus is immortal .
It's a really good idea , if u can possibly retrain your brain , before u get properly into your Bible , to completely disregard any and everything that u have ever heard about what it says and what it doesn't say , even everything that I've just told u . Reading the Bible should b a lifelong commitment and , if u persevere , it will answer all your questions , but it won't happen overnight . In the meantime u can of course one on here and ask what others think BUT , u will receive lots of different answers and perspectives . Convince yourself , read it yourself , take your time and enjoy but don't neglect the Old Testament , it helps immensely .
Are you saying you do not believe that Jesus died in our place as payment for us, for our sins, so we can have eternal life?
I Peter 2:24 says it all "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."
The bible has plenty more text showing He is our substitute. He paid the price for sin.
If Jesus is not YOUR substitute then you are yet in your sins.
You will have to pay the price yourself.
Some words in the Bible have 2 meanings: like the word “body.”
1 Corinthians 15:44 says, “There is a “natural ( flesh) body” and there is a “spiritual” body. 1 Corinthians 15 is that great chapter on the “resurrection.”
God says that the “natural” body is corruptible verse 42. It dies; you bury it; it decays. But when Christ returns at the end of the world, there will be a resurrection of all who have died. What will come out of the grave? Not our old physical bodies, those are gone; but a new “spiritual” body. Verse 44 says that what will come out of the grave is a “spiritual” body. Our “spiritual bodies are INCORRUPTIBLE. (See verse 42) Incorruptible means “not subject to death or decay; EVERLASTING.” It is with this kind of body that we will enter heaven or hell. Verse 50 says that “flesh and blood” cannot enter heaven. Our physical body will not go into heaven. This “everlasting” body is what allows us to live forever.; because it can never be destroyed. Just as long as heaven IS—that’s just how long Hell is. . They are both EVERLASTING; both are ETERNAL; both are FOREVER. Just as sure as our spiritual body will exist in heaven, so will the “spiritual” body exist in hell. God draws a picture of hell in a way that we as physical people can understand.
Hell is described as a “lake of fire.”
“ the devil who deceived them was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and brimstone…and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” REVELATION 20:10
“Then Death and Hades were cast into the LAKE OF FIRE. …and anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.” Revelation 20:14
“The cowardly, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the LAKE that burns with FIRE AND BRIMSTONE.” REV. 21:8
To say that hell does not exist is nothing more than “wishful thinking.” God is a God of mercy and forgiveness to those who seek Him, but God is also a God of JUSTICE to those who do evil. Some of Those who are in hell are listed in chapter 22:15. “Dogs (homosexuals-Deut. 23:18), sorcerers, sexually immoral, murders, idolaters, and liars.” These are some of the ones who will be “outside” the gates of heaven. (Also see 21:8)
Hell is just as REAL as heaven is.
There is no such thing as “soul sleeping”
Rev. 20:10 says that the wicked will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER.
LUKE 16, God is clearly showing you that the lost ( rich man) is fully “awake” and feeling the “flames”. The Holy Spirit says after he died, he “OPENED HIS EYES in torment and saw…”.
Those who say that he’ll is not real, or that there IS NO hell are liars according to what the Holy Spirit says.
I have tried to teach, over and over on this site, in many posts, that one of Satan’s “devices” or schemes (2 Cor. 2:11) is to CONTRADICT what God says. God told The first people that if they ate the fruit of the tree “YOU WILL DIE!” Satan said, “You WILL NOT DIE!” He contradicts everything that God says. Has God said, in the Bible, that HELL IS A REAL PLACE and is ETERNAL and that the “bodies “ there are TORMENTED ( awake)??? Yes! That is what the Bible teaches. Are there people who say that Hell iis NOT A REAL PLACE,; hell IS NOT ETERNAL; the soul IS ASLEEP! Who does that sound like to YOU? Sounds like Satan, up to his old devices. He’s been doing the same thing since the beginnng of time. DONT BE DECEIVED!! There are many people who will NOT BELIEVE What God plainly says. If you are reading this, I truly pray YOU will not be one of them.
1 Corinthians 15:44 says, “There is a “natural ( flesh) body” and there is a “spiritual” body. 1 Corinthians 15 is that great chapter on the “resurrection.”
God says that the “natural” body is corruptible verse 42. It dies; you bury it; it decays. But when Christ returns at the end of the world, there will be a resurrection of all who have died. What will come out of the grave? Not our old physical bodies, those are gone; but a new “spiritual” body. Verse 44 says that what will come out of the grave is a “spiritual” body. Our “spiritual bodies are INCORRUPTIBLE. (See verse 42) Incorruptible means “not subject to death or decay; EVERLASTING.” It is with this kind of body that we will enter heaven or hell. Verse 50 says that “flesh and blood” cannot enter heaven. Our physical body will not go into heaven. This “everlasting” body is what allows us to live forever.; because it can never be destroyed. Just as long as heaven IS—that’s just how long Hell is. . They are both EVERLASTING; both are ETERNAL; both are FOREVER. Just as sure as our spiritual body will exist in heaven, so will the “spiritual” body exist in hell. God draws a picture of hell in a way that we as physical people can understand.
Hell is described as a “lake of fire.”
“ the devil who deceived them was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and brimstone…and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” REVELATION 20:10
“Then Death and Hades were cast into the LAKE OF FIRE. …and anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.” Revelation 20:14
“The cowardly, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the LAKE that burns with FIRE AND BRIMSTONE.” REV. 21:8
To say that hell does not exist is nothing more than “wishful thinking.” God is a God of mercy and forgiveness to those who seek Him, but God is also a God of JUSTICE to those who do evil. Some of Those who are in hell are listed in chapter 22:15. “Dogs (homosexuals-Deut. 23:18), sorcerers, sexually immoral, murders, idolaters, and liars.” These are some of the ones who will be “outside” the gates of heaven. (Also see 21:8)
Hell is just as REAL as heaven is.
There is no such thing as “soul sleeping”
Rev. 20:10 says that the wicked will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER.
LUKE 16, God is clearly showing you that the lost ( rich man) is fully “awake” and feeling the “flames”. The Holy Spirit says after he died, he “OPENED HIS EYES in torment and saw…”.
Those who say that he’ll is not real, or that there IS NO hell are liars according to what the Holy Spirit says.
I have tried to teach, over and over on this site, in many posts, that one of Satan’s “devices” or schemes (2 Cor. 2:11) is to CONTRADICT what God says. God told The first people that if they ate the fruit of the tree “YOU WILL DIE!” Satan said, “You WILL NOT DIE!” He contradicts everything that God says. Has God said, in the Bible, that HELL IS A REAL PLACE and is ETERNAL and that the “bodies “ there are TORMENTED ( awake)??? Yes! That is what the Bible teaches. Are there people who say that Hell iis NOT A REAL PLACE,; hell IS NOT ETERNAL; the soul IS ASLEEP! Who does that sound like to YOU? Sounds like Satan, up to his old devices. He’s been doing the same thing since the beginnng of time. DONT BE DECEIVED!! There are many people who will NOT BELIEVE What God plainly says. If you are reading this, I truly pray YOU will not be one of them.
You are denying an actual physical resurrection. PLUS you are rejecting what the bible says about the state of the dead.
Jesus was resurrected in a physical body (so was Lazarus). He appeared to His disciples and told them to touch Him that He was NOT a spirit. He was flesh and bone. He even asked for some food (Luke 24:36-43).
Paul says our bodies will be changed to be similar to Jesus' body (Phil 3:21)
I Cor 15:5-54 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."
The dead are in a state of:
Perpetual sleep, do not awake - Jer 51:57
Have no thoughts - Psa 146:4
Have no emotions, no knowledge, no wisdom - Ecc 9:5-6 & 10
Cannot praise God - Isa 33:18
King David has yet to ascend into heaven - Acts 2:29&34
Paul knew he would have to wait in the grave until Jesus comes to receive his crown - II Tim 4:6-8
So did Job - Job 19:26
There is no hope of eternal life without a resurrection from the dead (I Cor 15:12-19)
Presenting allegories, parables and proverbial biblical texts to redefine as literal that go against when the bible says is never a good idea. You create conflict and contradictions where there are none.
THIS is the work of the devil.