Is praying in public against a direct command from Jesus? Does this also include church and public meals?
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The best teacher I've ever known had a big flaw in my eyes.
To be a member of the church, you needed to get a number to be identified as a member. And then you needed to get a tither number.
I guess the point was so their wasn't a name attached . But I tried cash in the mail, and was never acknowledged because of that.
if that really occurred, that is super ridiculous! a # to be identified as a member? holy heavens! if i heard that the 1st time attending that church, i'd walk out!!!
Most people did, but they soon found out there's no such thing as a perfect church, none you didn't have some disagreements with. The upside out weighed the downside 10 times over.
But me sticking to my guns on the giving in secret cost me that also.
Because Jesus set the reason that motivates one to pray in public. Jesus prayed in public and did healings and miracles in public too. Jesus did not give us only one way to pray. He tells us to pray one for another, to pray privately. He told the disciples to watch and pray as a group. he prayed at the last Supper. "The special provision that allows people with good intentions to pray publicly"
Jesus in Matthew 6 did not say one could not pray in public. We are making a legalistic and doctrine of what Jesus said in context to those HE was praying for show. DO you pray for the sick? where does that happen? At a hospital? when one does evangelism and lead one to Christ do you pray for them? Where are praying for them at? ON the street? in a city , town or public Location? Anywhere one shares the Gospel of Jesus Christ Pray can happen there. It is doing what Eve Did when God said do not eat of the tree of Good and evil.
Eve said God said Don't even touch it. God did not say that. The same issue here. We want to make Jesus seem unreasonable about public prayer when the bible is full of it.
I would say that it is possible to pray in a place where there are other people without showing off. We do not have to speak prayer aloud, or adopt some special bodily position for prayer. Before my wife died, I used to go with her when she attended hospital. The hospital is a public place, but I was still able to bear her up before the throne of grace in silent prayer.
there was a church in mid N.Y, a while back that decided you had to sign papers saying you will tithe 10% every Sunday & every year & if you wanted to get married there you had to promise to tithe also!!! you guessed it, when that rule was adopted, many people left.
Mat 6:5;“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others.
Is a street corner not a public place?
Is a church or synagogue not a public place?
Or is there confusion with the command "Do not be like the hypocrites" (who pray in these public places?)
This is Jesus giving this directive in the sermon on the mount. Which is one of His biggest consolidated sermons. What more reference do you need?
When Jesus spoke He always had an audience. His audience required faith to believe and understand His message. (being born again, wheat and weeds, the sheep and goats, the wheat and chaff etc.. Each metaphor was grounded in the collective knowledge based of the people who lived in that time. In that there was a new teaching being illustrated by something familiar/something rooted in thier world so they could understand.
This metaphor requires modern knowledge of the human psyche. Something rooted in the future. Something next to no one could have understood without special knowledge or training. It was not apart of their every day vernacular.
When He says, “go into your room and shut the door,” He is prescribing secrecy as the antidote to hypocrisy, not establishing a universal rule that prayer must only occur in private.
The issue is motive, not location: prayer aimed at God is acceptable anywhere;
prayer aimed at spectators is condemned everywhere.
Then why didn't Christ list out the things you have here? Why was His remedy to tell all of us no matter what our intentions where to go to our rooms and close the door and pray to our father in secrete?
The hospital is a public place but the individual rooms are not. You praying in Her room in the hospital is consistent with the command to go to your room and pray. If you had gone into the main lobby, or the cafeteria during lunch, and just started belting our a prayer.. then you would be in violation of this command.
But as I have said before, the context of those words of Jesus was hypocrisy - people praying in places such as street corners for the purpose of being seen by others.
She wasn't in a private room, but in a ward with other patients and their visitors present. I never "belt out a prayer", wherever I am.
while I agree with your sentiment, your final conclusion is not supported here.
Jesus literally says:
6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
This whole verse solely supports location and secrecy. Nothing in the passage allows for any type of public prayer if your motives are good. It's saying if your motives are good you will pray in secrete. This is what combats hypocrisy. To humble yourself and follow the directive given to us by Christ.
If your interpretation were correct, Jesus would be contradicting His own practice (John 11:41–42; Matt 14:19; Luke 10:21) and the practice He commands for the church (Acts 1:14; 2:42; 4:24).
Great. I agree. Now please provide the scripture that says it is ok to pray publicly if you do not care if you are seen by others.
It is not enough to say I'm not being hypocritical here. Why? because most hypocrites do not know that they are being hypocritical. as they have justified their hypocrisy.
The same thing applies here, because even if you do not feel you are being hypocritical when you pray in public, Jesus still only give one approved method of prayer. He did not say if you are not being hypocritical you can pray publicly. His solution for hypocrisy was for everyone to pray in private. There was no special clause for those who do not see themselves as a hypocrite.
ok
My point exactly. Jesus is saying there is never a good reason for us to pray publically.
Jesus prayed 6 different times according to the gospel. 3 of which where from the cross (He did not have an option but to pray publicly) and the other 3 times (Feeding the 4000 then later the 5000 and finally when He resurrect lazarus He gave the reason for praying publicly:
John 11:41So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me.”
Jesus prayed aloud so everyone would know He was invoking the power of God. The idea being if God did not fully back Christ and everything he said and did He would not be able to raise Lazarus from the grave.
So... unless you are on par with Jesus I would say you fall under 'pray in secrete' crowd.
Great, show me with book chapter and verse a different model of prayer.
Also know there is a difference between prayer and supplication.
Which is what I am saying.
Do you mean at the garden of gethsemane? at 2am when there was no one else around?
you mean in the private upper room?
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others.
It's not legalism when we have a direct command that says if you pray in public your prayers will not be answered. (This is not a matter of salvation or saving grace.) This is a question of do you want your prayers answered or do you want you reward to be the "at-a-boys" you get from those who see you praying publicly?
yes.
In private where ever they are.
yes. In their rooms with the door closed. The passage does not say you must only pray in a domicile to which are are a deeded resident. If you are in the hospital you are issued a room. This room counts as this is where you stay while still at the hospital.
Not all are called to be an evangelist. Some are meant to teach, or have administrative gifts etc..
At Home or in a private church setting.
I don't participate in street evangelism.
Why does it need to only happen there? what does sharing the gospel mean to you? do you just give a synopsis to anyone who will listen say a prayer/make a big public display and then your off to the next person?
Have you ever considered this is the very thing Jesus is trying to get people to not do? Maybe Jesus wants us to slow down and develop deeper ties with those we convert, rather than trying to get as many people as possible to pray the sinners prayer and run off to the next person.
??? What is doing, what eve did?
But, Jesus says God will not answer your prayers if you pray publicly. If your faith only works when praying in front of people, is this the 'faith' God wants us to have?
These points have already been discussed ad nauseam.
Acts 1:14 shows the disciples gather together in a private gathering in an upper room with the door closed (as they where hiding from officials.)
Acts 2: 42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
You assume the prayer they devoted themselves to was public prayer. while nothing here says that,
Acts 4:24When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.
What makes you think this was a prayer? This is clearly an act of praise and worship.
Jesus prays 6 different times aloud in the gospels..
3 times from the cross (couldn't go anywhere else.)
and 3 times to perform miracles and in john 11:41 He tells us why He prays aloud:
42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me.”
When Jesus did a miracles, he often invoked the name of the Father so as to say the miracles he performed where powered by god otherwise God would not have allowed him to do these great things.
Didn't you just a week ago call us all back to using the scripture properly? what are you doing then using verse fragments and pairing them with your own teachings again?
You’re redefining every corporate prayer in Acts as “private,” every explicit prayer as “not prayer but praise,” and every public prayer of Jesus as “forced by circumstance,” but that’s not how Luke presents these scenes; Acts 1:14 is not a secret closet prayer but the church gathered, Acts 2:42’s devotion to “the prayers” uses the definite article and refers to established corporate prayer, and Acts 4:24 explicitly says they “lifted their voices together to God,” which is the very definition of corporate prayer, not merely praise.
Jesus’ public prayers are not incidental; John 11:41–42 tells you the principle: He prayed aloud for the sake of the hearers, which is exactly the category Matthew 6 is addressing — motive, not location.
Matthew 6 condemns performative prayer, not shared prayer, and the NT repeatedly shows believers praying aloud together without any hint of violating Jesus’ command.
The problem is not that I’m “pairing verse fragments with my own teachings”; it’s that your interpretation requires redefining clear prayer texts so they don’t contradict your system.
The NT’s pattern is simple: private prayer guards motive, corporate prayer builds unity, and neither contradicts the other.
NO, Jesus never said Never pray in public.
"So... unless you are on par with Jesus I would say you fall under 'pray in secrete' crowd."
Thank you for proving my point about a legalistic approach of public prayer.
You stated That Jesus gave reason for the praying in Public? Yet even with the reason HE still prayed publicly.
in context to Not praying publicly Jesus also gave the reason why not to. And He said it very clearly .
5. “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full."
Matthew 6:5
FYI The first Place Jesus mentioned was those who love to stand in a Synagogues then on the street corner for the reason to be seen by others. That's the context.
AS I'm sure you know a Synagogue not only prayer happened there there was Prophesying , healings, and works of God done by Jesus . And He also did them on street corners too.
How can one be told by Jesus not to pray in a Synagogue where pray happened all the time daily, to mean not to pray there anymore . That is ridicules. IF you are going to pray don't be a hypocrite. The reason that motivates one to pray.
I know.. See the OP and every post I've made since then.
Legalism pertains to salvation. in that salvation is dependent on strict adherence to the rules.
Praying like a hypocrite is not a matter of salvation. Praying like a hypocrite is not identified as a sin here. What Jesus says is if you want God to answer your prayers go pray privately. So no, this is not a matter of legalism.
No I quoted Jesus in John11: 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me.”
He said I prayed in public so the people witnessing His miracle knew that He was from God.
So Is Jesus a hypocrite for doing so?
Or is being nailed to a cross a good enough reason to not go into seclusion to pray? If performing a Miracle so that people know God sent you is a legit reason?
Again. Jesus Makes no provision for those who don't pray as hypocrite do.. This means if you pray as a hypocrite or you pray as a non hypocrite that resolution for both is to go into your room close the door and pray to your Father in secrete.
start reading earlier and Keep reading longer for the full context.
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
So Jesus is speaking to the non hypocrite crowd, He is saying to them do not be like they who pray for the attention of others. But he did not end there. He did not say or imply that if you do not pray for the attention of other men you can pray publicly. He says to the non hypocrite crowd To go into their rooms close the door and pray to your Father in secrete.
Again, Jesus remedy to not being like a hypocrite is not to pray in public. His remedy is for EVERYONE to pray in private. Then He says for what you do in secrete, your Father will reward you publicly.
Are you Jesus? Do you perform Jesus level miracles? Are you performing Miracles So that people Know you have been sent by God? Are you bring glory to God with your miracles or glory to yourself?
lol, are you really asking why does Jesus get to do things we are told not to do?
What does the term "King of kings and Lord of lords" mean to you?
Do kings and lords live by rules we don't?
So then would it not follow that a King of all other kings, and a Lord of All other lord, get to live by rules even kings and lord are forbidden to live by?