Respectfully, sacrifices in the old testament weren't for forgiveness of sin. They're regarded as "offerings" which is why theres multiple different kinds. Hebrews even says that they never took away sin.
Sin daily?
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That would mean God could choose to Sin.
I didn't. I ended my sentence with, "and sealed by his promise"
But we can mistranslate his words.
That is true, but the point I was focusing on was that all of the OT's men committed sin, whereas we in Christ don't.
The Word made flesh could have chosen to sin when He was tempted.
Your post had "who sin" at its end...maybe you can edit it ?
I don't feel that those with the gift of the Holy Ghost can mistranslate His words.
I don't knew what a dispensationalist is.
Can you provide its relationship to salvation, for me...thanx.
There's alot here, but my point was that OT saints were saved the same as NT saints: by grace through faith. It just wasn't made as clear as in the NT writings, but it's there. Noah found grace in the sight of the Lord. Abraham believed God...faith...and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Whose righteousness? Abraham's? No. The righteousness of Christ was imputed to him.
OT saints anticipated Messiah while NT saints look to a risen Messiah, but it's the same Messiah. The sacrificial system pointed to Christ.
It's the idea that there are blocks of time where things are different. So, it's like saying, in Moses's time, salvation was different, to after Christ's time.
Dispensationalists view blocks of time being different depending on the era, and that can go into several different topics but I wanted to focus on salvation in general.
Thanks for all that.
I believe that there is a difference in being granted salvation between the OT and the NT.
In the OT, where men couldn't be free from sin, they had the Law's measures to deal with their sins.
In the NT, by the grace of God, rebirth, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, we have no need of those measures; as we can remain faithfully true all the time.
In a general sort of way, I agree.
Both incorporare grace and faith, but they both also have their own intricacies.
Yeah, the OT's shadow, was cast by Christ.
When the scripture says Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. Who is the source of the righteousness? Abraham? Christ?
Okay, I wanted to make sure because it sounded like that was your stance. So essentially, you're a dispensationalist when it comes to salvation and Cameron is arguing against it. He's saying salvation has been the same throughout history. I actually agree with Cameron.
In Ezekiel 40-48, it shows that sacrificial offerings (the word sacrifices that people use) return during the millennial reign and that includes sin offerings. Paul also continued to sacrifice after his conversion as in Acts he had to give a sin offering at the end of his Nazarite vow which is required and he even paid for other men for their sin sacrifices to prove to the Jews he wasn't stepping away from the law (Acts 21).
So the whole sacrificial system is widely misunderstood and since it never did away with sin (as per Hebrews), we can't use it as an argument that says salvation somehow changed from before Christ to after Christ.
Here are some examples of Old Testament people saying God forgave them of their sins by grace:
David-
I acknowledged my sin to You,
And my iniquity I have not hidden.
I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,”
And You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah - Psalm 32:5
Moses-
And the Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and the fourth generation.” - Exodus 34: 6-7
Nehemiah-
They refused to obey,
And they were not mindful of Your wonders
That You did among them.
But they hardened their necks,
And in their rebellion
They appointed a leader
To return to their bondage.
But You are God,
Ready to pardon,
Gracious and merciful,
Slow to anger,
Abundant in kindness,
And did not forsake them. - Nehemiah 9:17
Micah-
Who is a God like You,
Pardoning iniquity
And passing over the transgression of the remnant of His heritage?
He does not retain His anger forever,
Because He delights in mercy.
He will again have compassion on us,
And will subdue our iniquities. - Micah 9:18-19
Salvation was always the same from the beginning. Choosing God, following Him, walking in His obedience and obtaining mercy and grace. Sacrificial offerings were a means to draw closer to God, not for salvation. It actually has nothing to do with salvation, which is why it doesn't surprise me that they return during the millennium.
Hmm well saying "its like they are saying" if they never said that then .. what you said is just speciation. You could have said its like they are saying "we are free from sin..Christ died for our sins and sin no longer has a hold on us. Its not I that sin but sin that is in me. When we fall when we get stuck in sin we get up dust off.. repent keep going".
Why you went with the negative here I don't know. To know the song playing right now is "drops in the ocean". Perfect time lord.. thank you Father. Its like they are saying.. they are not saying .. you said it not them
what sects teach this? I would not touch that..Abraham being faithful is the source of Abe' being faithful.
His fear of the Lord, and belief of God's promise, provoked his faithful response
You either misunderstood or avoided my question. I was asking what is the source of the righteousness credited to Abraham?
Do you feel that temple worship, dietary rules, and feast keeping are necessary for salvarion?
That has changed over history...don't you think ?
Are you writing about 8 different chapters ?
I see those chapters of Ezek. referring to the temple to be built at Jerusalem after the Israelites are released from Babylon.
How did you get that to apply to the millenial kingdom at all ?
Would Paul have lost his salvation if he had refused to back-track to Mosaic slavation by Law keeping ?
Please tell me you are not a Judaizer.
Salvation changed 100% after the resurrection of Christ Jesus.
So, Jesus was actually unnecessary for salvation ?
They had salvation all along. ???
The priests went into the holy of holies once a year, with sacrificial blood, for the remission of the people's sins.