Songs by Groovy

Amargosa said:

Heavy metal. Check.

“Vision of hell”. I did not see or hear that mentioned or explained clearly in the lyric. I did not get that at all, in listening to the song. I got the doom and gloom part. You mention three things. 1. A previous song. 2. Being damned. 3. Messiah. A song composition should only have one vision. That makes it easy for the listener to know what the subject is.

To be clear, song “vision” is what the song is about. IE - a marriage song, a song about the body and blood of Christ, a song about your mother, etc. If I want to write a song about “wisdom” that is the song “vision.”

Before my students start composing, or evaluating songs, they need to learn the terms. That way, we are speaking the same language. Reviewing songs comes much later. First learn from the book, then compose, then review. I found a link to the book I use to teach the class for you. It’s free on Google Drive. The Craft Of Lyric Writing - Sheila Davis Unfortunately, it is out of print.

While you learn, find a popular song by an artist that you like. Use the review sheet on the song. Pay attention to what grabs you about the song. What is the high point? What is the most memorable part? (That’s the “hook”.)

When we run a marathon, we practice, we exercise and we stretch. We develop our muscles. The winners study everything about marathons. Composing is like that. I want you to be a winner.

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The doom and gloom part is hell, which is the main vision, but it concludes with hope by referencing the "madman" and "light" (Messiah), who will "start the world spinning again" in heaven.

I have already concluded composing, so what I hope you will provide is an expert opinion about the lyrical and musical quality of my songs, beginning with this one, Late Last Night. Then I will consider whether revision is needed and possible. Thanks.

Amargosa said:

Those things were not clear to me, the listener. You had to explain the meaning of the lyrics. This is covered in the book I referenced above. Have you read it?

Just this one song, "Late Last Night" I'll look at with you. I cannot review all your songs. Reading the book I referrenced will allow you to review and critique your own songs. It will reall be an "Aha!" moment for you. If you are serious about composing good lyrics, you need to read the book.

Music has a mathematical component to it. For example, a AAA format song would have three verses and no chorus or bridge. All verses have a equal/symmetrical syllable count. In a four line verse, each line might have 8 syllables. If verse syllable count varies, the lyric needs to be reworked. Below is an example of two verses with equal syllable count. I put a syllable count number after each line. The verses are balanced. The composer did their homework here. Note also, there are an equal number of lines.

In the secret, in the quiet place 9
In the stillness you are there 7
In the secret, 4
In the quiet hour I wait only for you 12
'Cause I want to know you more 7

I am reaching for the highest goal 9
That I might receive the prize 7
Pressing onward, 4
Pushing every hindrance aside, Out of my way 12
"Cause I want to know you more 7

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I have read the first two chapters, and I gleaned two points:
1. There is no formula for writing a song.
2. Most songs are composed musically first, and then a lyricist adds words (per Ira Gershwin).

All of my songs were poems first, and then I composed or produced music for them as I taught myself how to strum the guitar.

I see that Shela Davis began her songwriting career with "Who Will Answer?" for Ed Ames in 1967,
which is the year I graduated from high school and I loved that song. In fact, I call some of my few songs
including Late Last Night and Wouldn't It Be Fine para-Christian, which is the genre "Who Will Answer" seems to fit--
not CCM, because it does not mention Jesus. I would also put Bob Dylan's Slow Train Coming album in that genre.
What do you think?

Anyway, I had the muse from about 1967-72, and I am not really feeling inspired to write more now,
so if you have no interest in offering your opinion of them, I guess we are done. I have merely been having fun
lately recreating my songs musically using Suno with the help of my son.

Thanks for pointing me to Sheila Davis. though.

Amargosa said:

Below is the syllable count for the first four sections of your song. There is no consistent meter.

“Late Last Night (Revelation)”

Late last night a young girl dreamed 7
Her love would grow forever, 7
Then a wise man, who from ages long ago seemed 12
Took her to a state of never-never, 10
And he told her everything he’d learned, 9
Taught her how the silver cord to sever, 10
But they stumbled and fell into hell. 9

Every song has now been sung, 7
The last wedding bell has long since rung, 9
And the prisoners have all been hung. 8
There is nothing more to create, 8
The universe is man’s estate, 8
The name of it is hate. 6

There is no new game to try, 7
No new name to love or cry, 7
No reason to laugh or die. 7
No new dreams are born within, 7
And all that will ever be has been. 9
There’s no new way to sin. 7

Each of us is god and so 7
There is nothing more to know, 7
No new place to go, 5
Not even in your mind, 6
For that was left behind. 6

You have good use of rhyme. But the lyrics to music is not a poem.

Referencing the book again (see link above) one line is "forced". - "Taught her how the silver cord to sever," People don't speak like that so it appears unnatural or forced. In my class we call that, "Yoda Speak".

I do not mean to come across as overly critical. So, please don't take it that way. I want to encourage you to keep writing. To approach songwriting more professionally. What you and I are doing here is the opposite of what I teach in class. Reading the book comes first, then comes the song reviews later. Now, it's your turn. Read the book. Then I'll answer more questions.

Peace.

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Actually, I realize that I read the introduction and first chapter, from which I gleaned that there is no formula for writing a song (p.9), and the first part of chapter two, in which I noted that Gershwin songs were usually composed musically first (by George) and then Ira added the lyrics.

I have read the rest of chapter two, and I see what you and Sheila mean about the difference between a lyric and poem.
I see that my songs are in the genre of the art song, which is a poem set to music, not necessarily meant to appeal to a large audience. Who Will Answer sounds like such a poem except that it does have a chorus hook.

An art song may contain more complex and even ambiguous language, as you noted. Perhaps in that regard my songs are more like several of Leonard Cohen and some of Bob Dylan.

I must say that I have always had a "Top Ten" ear, which is the reason (besides being chinchy) that I would wait until groups produced a greatest hits album, because I knew which songs would rise to the top of the charts. My own opinion is that the songs on my album are of top ten quality, but I would appreciate feedback from CC folks.

GWH said:

Actually, I realize that I read the introduction and first chapter, from which I gleaned that there is no formula for writing a song (p.9), and the first part of chapter two, in which I noted that Gershwin songs were usually composed musically first (by George) and then Ira added the lyrics.

I have read the rest of chapter two, and I see what you and Sheila mean about the difference between a lyric and poem.
I see that my songs are in the genre of the art song, which is a poem set to music, not necessarily meant to appeal to a large audience. Who Will Answer sounds like such a poem except that it does have a chorus hook.

An art song may contain more complex and even ambiguous language, as you noted. Perhaps in that regard my songs are more like several of Leonard Cohen and some of Bob Dylan.

I must say that I have always had a "Top Ten" ear, which is the reason (besides being chinchy) that I would wait until groups produced a greatest hits album, because I knew which songs would rise to the top of the charts. My own opinion is that the songs on my album are of top ten quality, but I would appreciate feedback from CC folks.

Click to expand...

Amargosa's questionnaire gave me the idea of making feedback easier for anyone who would like to do so by providing the following template on which to rate the songs musically and lyrically on a scale of 1 to 5 (low to high), then provide a comment. The songs are listed in the order found at GroovyKerygma.bandcamp.com.

The link to the first song is https://groovykerygma.bandcamp.com/track/from-paul-to-the-proud.

Additional songs may be heard by clicking on "more releases..." [Ignore what bandcamp suggests to donate :^]
As a short comment, I would be at least interested to learn what genre you think the song fits (including "none").

1. From Paul to the Proud: Music ____ Lyrics____ Comment____
2. Late Last Night (Revelation): Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
3. Wouldn't It Be Fine?: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
4. Until Set Free: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
5. Once Upon a Time: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
6. Someday: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
7. When You're Alone: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
8. The Power of Love: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
9. Redeemed: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
10. Spirit of the Lord: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
11. Ode to a Young Woman: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
12. Burger Queen: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
13. The Perfect Pet: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
14. Born to Lose: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
15. Loser (Born to Lose redux): Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____

Thank y'all very much. As a reward, I hereby bequeath the songs to you, your family, friends and churches for enjoyment and discussion (edification).

LIC, Groovy

Amargosa said:

Heavy metal. Check.

“Vision of hell”. I did not see or hear that mentioned or explained clearly in the lyric. I did not get that at all, in listening to the song. I got the doom and gloom part. You mention three things. 1. A previous song. 2. Being damned. 3. Messiah. A song composition should only have one vision. That makes it easy for the listener to know what the subject is.

To be clear, song “vision” is what the song is about. IE - a marriage song, a song about the body and blood of Christ, a song about your mother, etc. If I want to write a song about “wisdom” that is the song “vision.”

Before my students start composing, or evaluating songs, they need to learn the terms. That way, we are speaking the same language. Reviewing songs comes much later. First learn from the book, then compose, then review. I found a link to the book I use to teach the class for you. It’s free on Google Drive. The Craft Of Lyric Writing - Sheila Davis Unfortunately, it is out of print.

While you learn, find a popular song by an artist that you like. Use the review sheet on the song. Pay attention to what grabs you about the song. What is the high point? What is the most memorable part? (That’s the “hook”.)

When we run a marathon, we practice, we exercise and we stretch. We develop our muscles. The winners study everything about marathons. Composing is like that. I want you to be a winner.

Click to expand...

Here is an analysis of "Who Will Answer?" I wrote in the 1970s that I just found in my files that share to show you how much I admired Sheila Davis's song.
Who Will Answer?

“If the soul is darkened by a fear it cannot name,
If the mind is baffled when the rules don’t fit the game.
Who will answer…? Hallelujah…!”

[Play “Who Will Answer?” by Ed Ames.] I don’t know about you, but this song from the Vietnam Era hits home with me. Let us see if we can answer the question it asks. The first verse says: “From the canyons of the mind we wander on and stumble blindly through the often tangled maze of starless nights and sunless days, while asking for some kind of clue, a road to lead us to the truth, but who will answer?”

The apostle Paul encountered people who were confused and searching in Athens. In ACTS 17:23, Paul says that he even found an altar with this inscription: To an unknown God. He told the people, “What you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you.”

[Read ACTS 17:24-31] Notice that this passage teaches God created human beings so that they would seek him and find him. As HB 11:6 says, “God rewards those who earnestly seek him.” And Jesus said in MT 7:7, “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find…”.

Notice also that Paul quotes from Greek poets or philosophers who said “We are his offspring”, and then reasons from that using God-given logic to discover the truth. This teaches us to be eclectic, applying the words of 1THS 5:21, “Test everything; hold on to the good.” This is because God is the Spirit of truth, and all truth is God’s truth, even in cultures that are not Christian. This methodology was made famous by the philosopher, Hegel, who taught that more complete truth may be the synthesis of opposing views rather than either one or the other. So, who will answer or lead us to the truth? God, GW, His Logos and teachers who have His Holy Spirit.

The next verse asks: “Side by side two people stand together vowing hand in hand that love’s embedded in their hearts, but soon an empty feeling starts to overwhelm their hollow lives, and when they seek the hows and whys, who will answer?” Many children are raised by parents who have hollow lives, whose hearts are not filled with the love of God, who do not teach them by word and deed what to believe and how to behave, nor do they participate in a church where their kids will have Christian friends who will not pressure them to experiment with drugs and sex or to listen to ungodly rap music and watch pornographic movies. Then these parents wonder why their children become friends with kids who do these things, become involved in gangs and become enslaved by drugs and worship the idol of fornication.

And who will answer them? God, GW, His teaching in EPH 5:18, “Do not get high on drugs, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Holy Spirit and enjoy sexual communion with your spouse in a wonderful life-long relationship. And again in 6:4, “Parents, do not exasperate your children [drive them away from the Lord]; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.”

The third verse asks: “On a strange and distant hill a young man’s lying very still; his arms will never hold his child because a bullet running wild has struck him down and now we cry dear God, oh why, but who will answer?” It is not just on foreign hills but also in American cities that bullets strike people down, including children. Why? Because of reasons I have already shared in connection with the first two verses. A movie entitled “American Me” portrays very well the decadence and downward spiral of our society, and where we are headed.

Amargosa said:

You're welcome.

I'm going through my notebooks from 2014 this week and have come up with a couple more song ideas. These are notebooks of song & lyric ideas.

I've composed a song in as little as one day. Some take decades.

All in God's timing. All glory to God.

Click to expand...

Can you share it?
Do you have a song you would like me to give feedback on?

For a change of pace, here is a song in the funny genre:

https://groovykerygma.bandcamp.com/track/born-to-lose-2

Feel free to sing along with the choruses!

GWH said:

Amargosa's questionnaire gave me the idea of making feedback easier for anyone who would like to do so by providing the following template on which to rate the songs musically and lyrically on a scale of 1 to 5 (low to high), then provide a comment. The songs are listed in the order found at GroovyKerygma.bandcamp.com.

The link to the first song is https://groovykerygma.bandcamp.com/track/from-paul-to-the-proud.

Additional songs may be heard by clicking on "more releases..." [Ignore what bandcamp suggests to donate :^]
As a short comment, I would be at least interested to learn what genre you think the song fits (including "none").

1. From Paul to the Proud: Music ____ Lyrics____ Comment____
2. Late Last Night (Revelation): Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
3. Wouldn't It Be Fine?: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
4. Until Set Free: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
5. Once Upon a Time: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
6. Someday: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
7. When You're Alone: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
8. The Power of Love: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
9. Redeemed: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
10. Spirit of the Lord: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
11. Ode to a Young Woman: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
12. Burger Queen: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
13. The Perfect Pet: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
14. Born to Lose: Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____
15. Loser (Born to Lose redux): Music____ Lyrics____ Comment____

Thank y'all very much. As a reward, I hereby bequeath the songs to you, your family, friends and churches for enjoyment and discussion (edification).

LIC, Groovy

Click to expand...

Just a reminder in case someone checks out this music forum.

The first 11 songs are a concept album on the theme of salvation from sin,
and the last four songs are merely intended to give you a chuckle.

Again, comments/feedback is invited and appreciated.

My songs are now presented as a concept album that can be listened to in its entirety
by clicking on the play arrow for the first song.
May I suggest listening to "From Paul to the Proud" while reading Romans 1:1-2;9a?
Also, you may want to notice the imagery that connects some of the songs, such as clouds and garden.
I hope you like the variety of genres, some of which are what I call "para-Christian" because they affirm NT morality
without mentioning Christ specifically. (The last four are simply for fun.)
Enjoy!

https://groovykerygma.bandcamp.com/album/groovy-kerygma

I have recently been attending a nearby church despite some "worship" songs that prompt me to ask:
Am I the only old fossil that dislikes for lyrics to be repeated what I deem to be ad nauseum?
Isn't about three times enough? Beyond that feels like being attacked by a hypnotist!

My contribution to Juneteenth:

https://groovykerygma.bandcamp.com/track/spirit-of-the-lord

I would like to provide some notes to enhance enjoyment of my concept album for the few folks who check out this forum.
The songs were originally written as poems that I put to music as I taught myself to play guitar at about the age of 18 in 1968.
Only recently (after making a "garage band" arrangement with the help of Suno) did I realize that the songs could be connected as a concept album in the following way:

1. "Wouldn't It Be Fine?" (a folksy tune) imagines a happy and peaceful world via metaphors including a song for everyone, a book worth reading twice and the sound from earth of one good time, but it asks a surprising question at the end.

2. "From Paul to the Proud" (in the gypsy genre) answers that question with a paraphrase of Romans 1:1-2:9a, which describes a corrupt and condemned world.

3. "Late Last Night (Revelation)" (heavy metal) describes in detail the hell mentioned by Paul. Satan is the king of chaos cited in "Wouldn't It Be Fine", and hate names the answer to the question it asks.

4. "Until Set Free" (a slow ballad) also answers that question with "sin" as symbolized by a woman who sold her soul because of lust; she is us. Her choice alludes to the road of life diverging or crossing a bridge because of the price that is paid: spiritual death.

5. "Once Upon a Time" (another slow ballad) is sung by the woman's soulmate, who would have loved her forever, but after trying to reach her, his heart crossed the bridge of no return.

6. "Someday" (the slowest ballad) contemplates dying, perhaps in the near future, and departing from one's soulmate,
dreaming of the day when love will be renewed in the eternal heavenly garden of Eden.

7. "When You're Alone" (thrash metal genre) portrays the agitated mental state of someone who has never found love, who feels alone and despondent, having no desire to live.

8. "The Power of Love" (Indian genre, with a sitar) describes the despondent one without love as discovering being loved by Jesus and rescued from meaningless existence, replacing nightmares with visions of the heavenly Garden.

9. "Spirit of the Lord" (Negro Spiritual genre) rejoices because of blessings bestowed by the Holy Spirit.

10. "Redeemed" (redeems "Hey Jude" in the Japanese genre) also rejoices because of being blessed with a better life by divine love.

11. "Ode to a Young Woman" (slow ballad) is a sort of bookend, a postlude that alludes to the prelude, in which a young man rejoices because God made Eve in Eden (a soulmate until set free in heaven).

May you have time someday to be blessed by these!

Some of my songs (like some by M.W. Smith) are in the para-Christian genre,
which means they promote Christian moral values. One of these songs is
"Wouldn't It Be Fine". Here are its annotated lyrics:

Wouldn’t it be fine if we made time
To sing a song for everyone,
But men are dif; its one big if.
[The song is the Gospel, and the dif is atheism per Matt. 13:14-5 & John 8:42-44.]

Wouldn’t it be good if someone would
Make one world from every word.
A book so nice would be worth reading twice.
[The book is the Bible, especially the NT--a harmonized version.]

If I chose the perfect dance,
Would you walk with me for long
Or long for some new way to move?
[The dance is the way of faith and love per 1Cor. 13.]

Wouldn’t it be fine if passing near
The king of chaos were to hear
The sound from earth of one good time?
[The king of chaos is Satan, and the sound is Christians singing/praising God.]

If the world went simply round
With purring sound, I think we could
See good from wrong and sing one song.
[IF implies that the world does NOT do God's will.]

A trio rhymes in harmony
Like rivers flowing to the sea.
If love is such a happy tune
Everyone should soon sing along...
[Saints are members of one body per 1Cor. 12.]

If I chose the perfect dance...
Wouldn't it be fine if passing near...
If the world went simply round...
Everyone should soon sing along...
[See previous comments/annotations.]

But what’s wrong with you and me?
[The answer is that everyone chooses to sin for some perverse reason, and many never repent (Rom. 3:23, Matt. 13:14-15).]

Here is the link to the music:

https://groovykerygma.bandcamp.com/track/wouldnt-it-be-fine

GWH said:

I would like to provide some notes to enhance enjoyment of my concept album for the few folks who check out this forum.
The songs were originally written as poems that I put to music as I taught myself to play guitar at about the age of 18 in 1968.
Only recently (after making a "garage band" arrangement with the help of Suno) did I realize that the songs could be connected as a concept album in the following way:

1. "Wouldn't It Be Fine?" (a folksy tune) imagines a happy and peaceful world via metaphors including a song for everyone, a book worth reading twice and the sound from earth of one good time, but it asks a surprising question at the end.

2. "From Paul to the Proud" (in the gypsy genre) answers that question with a paraphrase of Romans 1:1-2:9a, which describes a corrupt and condemned world.

3. "Late Last Night (Revelation)" (heavy metal) describes in detail the hell mentioned by Paul. Satan is the king of chaos cited in "Wouldn't It Be Fine", and hate names the answer to the question it asks.

4. "Until Set Free" (a slow ballad) also answers that question with "sin" as symbolized by a woman who sold her soul because of lust; she is us. Her choice alludes to the road of life diverging or crossing a bridge because of the price that is paid: spiritual death.

5. "Once Upon a Time" (another slow ballad) is sung by the woman's soulmate, who would have loved her forever, but after trying to reach her, his heart crossed the bridge of no return.

6. "Someday" (the slowest ballad) contemplates dying, perhaps in the near future, and departing from one's soulmate,
dreaming of the day when love will be renewed in the eternal heavenly garden of Eden.

7. "When You're Alone" (thrash metal genre) portrays the agitated mental state of someone who has never found love, who feels alone and despondent, having no desire to live.

8. "The Power of Love" (Indian genre, with a sitar) describes the despondent one without love as discovering being loved by Jesus and rescued from meaningless existence, replacing nightmares with visions of the heavenly Garden.

9. "Spirit of the Lord" (Negro Spiritual genre) rejoices because of blessings bestowed by the Holy Spirit.

10. "Redeemed" (redeems "Hey Jude" in the Japanese genre) also rejoices because of being blessed with a better life by divine love.

11. "Ode to a Young Woman" (slow ballad) is a sort of bookend, a postlude that alludes to the prelude, in which a young man rejoices because God made Eve in Eden (a soulmate until set free in heaven).

May you have time someday to be blessed by these!

Click to expand...

Album "Pilgrimage" liner notes (bumped with the link to the album for when you have time available to meditate on life :^):

https://groovykerygma.bandcamp.com/album/pilgrimage-2

Just curious, Is anyone aware of a better heavy metal song both lyrically and musically than this one?

https://groovykerygma.bandcamp.com/track/late-last-night-revelation

If so, please let me know. Thanks!

GWH said:

I would like to provide some notes to enhance enjoyment of my concept album for the few folks who check out this forum.
The songs were originally written as poems that I put to music as I taught myself to play guitar at about the age of 18 in 1968.
Only recently (after making a "garage band" arrangement with the help of Suno) did I realize that the songs could be connected as a concept album in the following way:

1. "Wouldn't It Be Fine?" (a folksy tune) imagines a happy and peaceful world via metaphors including a song for everyone, a book worth reading twice and the sound from earth of one good time, but it asks a surprising question at the end.

2. "From Paul to the Proud" (in the gypsy genre) answers that question with a paraphrase of Romans 1:1-2:9a, which describes a corrupt and condemned world.

3. "Late Last Night (Revelation)" (heavy metal) describes in detail the hell mentioned by Paul. Satan is the king of chaos cited in "Wouldn't It Be Fine", and hate names the answer to the question it asks.

4. "Until Set Free" (a slow ballad) also answers that question with "sin" as symbolized by a woman who sold her soul because of lust; she is us. Her choice alludes to the road of life diverging or crossing a bridge because of the price that is paid: spiritual death.

5. "Once Upon a Time" (another slow ballad) is sung by the woman's soulmate, who would have loved her forever, but after trying to reach her, his heart crossed the bridge of no return.

6. "Someday" (the slowest ballad) contemplates dying, perhaps in the near future, and departing from one's soulmate,
dreaming of the day when love will be renewed in the eternal heavenly garden of Eden.

7. "When You're Alone" (thrash metal genre) portrays the agitated mental state of someone who has never found love, who feels alone and despondent, having no desire to live.

8. "The Power of Love" (Indian genre, with a sitar) describes the despondent one without love as discovering being loved by Jesus and rescued from meaningless existence, replacing nightmares with visions of the heavenly Garden.

9. "Spirit of the Lord" (Negro Spiritual genre) rejoices because of blessings bestowed by the Holy Spirit.

10. "Redeemed" (redeems "Hey Jude" in the Japanese genre) also rejoices because of being blessed with a better life by divine love.

11. "Ode to a Young Woman" (slow ballad) is a sort of bookend, a postlude that alludes to the prelude, in which a young man rejoices because God made Eve in Eden (a soulmate until set free in heaven).

May you have time someday to be blessed by these!

Click to expand...

Bumped for those who may have missed seeing this.
Feel free to share feedback.