Is Knowledge of the Original Languages Necessary for KJV Believers?

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I think the larger context is important here because I do not see Paul introducing a new principle of justification in Galatians 2:16 that is different from the one he explains through Abraham in Galatians 3 and Romans 4. The controversy in Galatians concerns people seeking to add works of the law, particularly circumcision, to the means by which a man is justified. Paul says, “we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified” (Galatians 2:16). Only a few verses later, he explains this by going directly to Abraham: “Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness” (Galatians 3:6).
It isn't new. It is how Abraham lived. As was said, righteousness has always been through faith. For it is written, "The just (righteous) shall live by faith." Knowing that a man is not justified (made, righteous) OUT OF the works of the law, if not THROUGH the faith of Jesus Christ
Verse 17 adds a condition. It states that this justified, being made righteous is undetermined. How do we know? Because if one is seeking to be justified, made righteous they are not justified, made righteous yet. They are a work in progress. If they are found sinners, they are transgressors. If one is crucified with Christ and Christ lives in them and the life they live is through the faith OF the Son of God who gave Himself for them. They don't live by the Law but by faith. They are not continuing in sin that grace might abound. They are dead to sin through the faith OF Christ being lived through them. And if one is dead to sin through the resurrected body of Christ they are dead to the Law. The Law no longer dictates their actions, the transformed heart does which has the Law, God's Word written in it through Christ. We are new creation through His Spirit. That is the word of faith in which we are to preach. (Rom 10:8)

This is the faith Abraham had, He hearkened unto the voice of the Lord. He heard and obeyed the faith he had that God gave Him and received the promises. Even as we receive the Spirit through the hearing of this faith God has given us through Christ living in us.




Gal 3:5 He therefore furnishing you the Spirit, and working the powers in you, is it from the works of the law, or from the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed TO THE God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
 
It isn't new. It is how Abraham lived. As was said, righteousness has always been through faith. For it is written, "The just (righteous) shall live by faith." Knowing that a man is not justified (made, righteous) OUT OF the works of the law, if not THROUGH the faith of Jesus Christ
Verse 17 adds a condition. It states that this justified, being made righteous is undetermined. How do we know? Because if one is seeking to be justified, made righteous they are not justified, made righteous yet. They are a work in progress. If they are found sinners, they are transgressors. If one is crucified with Christ and Christ lives in them and the life they live is through the faith OF the Son of God who gave Himself for them. They don't live by the Law but by faith. They are not continuing in sin that grace might abound. They are dead to sin through the faith OF Christ being lived through them. And if one is dead to sin through the resurrected body of Christ they are dead to the Law. The Law no longer dictates their actions, the transformed heart does which has the Law, God's Word written in it through Christ. We are new creation through His Spirit. That is the word of faith in which we are to preach. (Rom 10:8)

This is the faith Abraham had, He hearkened unto the voice of the Lord. He heard and obeyed the faith he had that God gave Him and received the promises. Even as we receive the Spirit through the hearing of this faith God has given us through Christ living in us.




Gal 3:5 He therefore furnishing you the Spirit, and working the powers in you, is it from the works of the law, or from the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed TO THE God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
I am not denying the second aspect of faith which is Sanctification. If I am understanding your position here correctly, to imply that the first step is Sanctification is to put the cart before the horse. We are first saved by God's grace through faith without works. Again, I am not sure you understood the connection in Romans 4. Clearly it says that Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness (Romans 4:3) (KJV). Then it connects this idea that this happened before circumcision (Read Romans 4:9-11) (KJV). This belief of him being accounted righteousness by faith was in regard to Abraham believing the promise that God would make his descendants like the stars. What do you do with those verses? It ties in with Genesis. Are you unaware of these verses?


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I am not denying the second aspect of faith which is Sanctification. If I am understanding your position here correctly, to imply that the first step is Sanctification is to put the cart before the horse. We are first saved by God's grace through faith without works. Again, I am not sure you understood the connection in Romans 4. Clearly it says that Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness (Romans 4:3) (KJV). Then it connects this idea that this happened before circumcision (Read Romans 4:9-11) (KJV). This belief of him being accounted righteousness by faith was in regard to Abraham believing the promise that God would make his descendants like the stars. What do you do with those verses? It ties in with Genesis. Are you unaware of these verses?


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Genesis 15:5-6
5 "And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

"...for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? " (Romans 4:9-10).

After reading this then re-read Romans 4:1-4 again, then read Romans 4:9-11.

"...God imputeth righteousness without works,..." (Romans 4:6) (KJV).

How does this all work in your belief system?



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Catholicism was not only wrong because of its extra biblical traditions that were heretical

Yeah well the reformers have extra biblical traditions that came from satan too.

They were just following the truth of the Scriptures and following others who went before them.

Yeah they ditched the scriptures and followed the guys the warned warned about through Paul:

Acts 20:29 - For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

So even if you are not so sure about the Reformation, you cannot deny that at the very least it was a time when the word of God was going out to everyone.

I know for a fact there is much false doctrine that came out of the reformation, and yes the Lord will always have His remnant of true believers as the Lord was behind the Word of God being made available to the entire world.
 
Yeah well the reformers have extra biblical traditions that came from satan too.
Some probably did and others did not. To say so otherwise means nobody was saved in that period of time, which would be silly.
Anyway, the point is that the Protestant Reformation (the proto-Arminian version which later became Arminian) was certainly a better step in the right direction against the many errors of Rome or Catholicism. To say so otherwise means you do not know history or the truth. No Protestant argues that Catholicism was ever better. Are you Protestant?


Yeah they ditched the scriptures and followed the guys the warned warned about through Paul:

Acts 20:29 - For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.



I know for a fact there is much false doctrine that came out of the reformation, and yes the Lord will always have His remnant of true believers as the Lord was behind the Word of God being made available to the entire world.
There will always be errors among various believers, even among many Protestants, but to say all Protestants are in error or they all have errors is to suggest that you are either not Protestant or you think nobody was saved through history.




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The act of choosing to believe and get born again is a good work.
To believe is the work of God according to Scripture. Jesus did not say to believe is the work of man. Also, to be born again is done by the Holy Spirit. It's not something you can do to yourself. It's a spiritual heart surgery. To say so otherwise means you do not know what being born again is actually about. I know. I was radically changed on a spiritual level when I accepted Jesus as my Savior and I believed the gospel message for my salvation. I had a love, joy, and peace I had never known before when I accepted Christ way back in 1992. Can you say the same? Can you say you were radically changed and the words of Bible started to became alive to you?


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Yes, because the guy on the cross with Jesus only asked his quest in the KJV. 🙄
I am a strong proponent of the original languages that underly the KJV.
The KJV believer I debated (Matthew Verschuur) does not believe the original languages are necessary for your average KJV believer.
I believe his view is incorrect. The Hebrew and Greek is like reading the Bible in color. Granted, I do regard the KJV as a providential translation and that is without error, but I see the Hebrew and Greek as the actual inspired words of God we have today.

Side Note:

As for your username: 1986 was a special year for me. It was the year I met one of my close childhood buds. We were into Marvel comics, Gi-Joe, and way later we then both got into the Christian faith and the KJV.


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I am a strong proponent of the original languages that underly the KJV.
The KJV believer I debated (Matthew Verschuur) does not believe the original languages are necessary for your average KJV believer.
I believe his view is incorrect. The Hebrew and Greek is like reading the Bible in color. Granted, I do regard the KJV as a providential translation and that is without error, but I see the Hebrew and Greek as the actual inspired words of God we have today.

Side Note:

As for your username: 1986 was a special year for me. It was the year I met one of my close childhood buds. We were into Marvel comics, Gi-Joe, and way later we then both got into the Christian faith and the KJV.


....
Okay, that’s cool. 1986 was the best year for the Honda CRs.
 
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I posted the following in regard to Gal 2:16 and how the context supports what was shown to you in regard to, "Knowing that a man is not justified (made, righteous) OUT OF the works of the law, if not THROUGH the faith of Jesus Christ" being the proper translation.
It isn't new. It is how Abraham lived. As was said, righteousness has always been through faith. For it is written, "The just (righteous) shall live by faith." Knowing that a man is not justified (made, righteous) OUT OF the works of the law, if not THROUGH the faith of Jesus Christ
Verse 17 adds a condition. It states that this justified, being made righteous is undetermined. How do we know? Because if one is seeking to be justified, made righteous they are not justified, made righteous yet. They are a work in progress. If they are found sinners, they are transgressors. If one is crucified with Christ and Christ lives in them and the life they live is through the faith OF the Son of God who gave Himself for them. They don't live by the Law but by faith. They are not continuing in sin that grace might abound. They are dead to sin through the faith OF Christ being lived through them. And if one is dead to sin through the resurrected body of Christ they are dead to the Law. The Law no longer dictates their actions, the transformed heart does which has the Law, God's Word written in it through Christ. We are new creation through His Spirit. That is the word of faith in which we are to preach. (Rom 10:8)

This is the faith Abraham had, He hearkened unto the voice of the Lord. He heard and obeyed the faith he had that God gave Him and received the promises. Even as we receive the Spirit through the hearing of this faith God has given us through Christ living in us.
To which you said
I am not denying the second aspect of faith which is Sanctification. If I am understanding your position here correctly, to imply that the first step is Sanctification is to put the cart before the horse. We are first saved by God's grace through faith without works. Again, I am not sure you understood the connection in Romans 4. Clearly it says that Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness (Romans 4:3) (KJV). Then it connects this idea that this happened before circumcision (Read Romans 4:9-11) (KJV). This belief of him being accounted righteousness by faith was in regard to Abraham believing the promise that God would make his descendants like the stars. What do you do with those verses? It ties in with Genesis. Are you unaware of these verses?....
Yes he believed God, heard Him and acted upon it. He had faith. Christ lives in us and the life we now live we live THROUGH the faith OF the Son of God who gave Himself for us. But we must listen to this change He has done in and to us. Nothing comes to us by the works of the Law but only by the hearing, listening of this faith, even as Abraham believed God and it was counted unto Him for righteousness. (Gal 3:2-6)

"Even as" is a direct comparison.

There is a lot to sanctification. We must be sanctified for sanctification to begin. Sanctified and perfected. For we whom He have sanctified have already been perfected through the Law being put in our heart (Heb 10:14-16) His Word is in our heart that we believeth into righteousness. That is the word of faith in which we are of and are to preach. (Rom 10:8-10).

Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
 
Yes, in my opinion the ability to translate ancient text will open eyes. It is especially easy today and I actually encourage studying thru translation.
 
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I posted the following in regard to Gal 2:16 and how the context supports what was shown to you in regard to, "Knowing that a man is not justified (made, righteous) OUT OF the works of the law, if not THROUGH the faith of Jesus Christ" being the proper translation.

To which you said

Yes he believed God, heard Him and acted upon it. He had faith. Christ lives in us and the life we now live we live THROUGH the faith OF the Son of God who gave Himself for us. But we must listen to this change He has done in and to us. Nothing comes to us by the works of the Law but only by the hearing, listening of this faith, even as Abraham believed God and it was counted unto Him for righteousness. (Gal 3:2-6)

"Even as" is a direct comparison.

There is a lot to sanctification. We must be sanctified for sanctification to begin. Sanctified and perfected. For we whom He have sanctified have already been perfected through the Law being put in our heart (Heb 10:14-16) His Word is in our heart that we believeth into righteousness. That is the word of faith in which we are of and are to preach. (Rom 10:8-10).

Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
You are side stepping the issue and point I was making with God's word.
Was Abraham faith or belief accounted to him for righteousness?

The Bible says,

"Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." (Romans 4:3).​

Cross reference that ties into this:

Genesis 15:1-6 (KJV):

1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.​
2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?​
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.​
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.​
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.​
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness."​

It says Abraham believed in the LORD (which was in regard to believing the promise) and that belief was counted to him for righteousness. Please keep in mind that there are no works of faith here yet.



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I am a strong proponent of the original languages that underly the KJV.
The KJV believer I debated (Matthew Verschuur) does not believe the original languages are necessary for your average KJV believer.
I believe his view is incorrect. The Hebrew and Greek is like reading the Bible in color. Granted, I do regard the KJV as a providential translation and that is without error, but I see the Hebrew and Greek as the actual inspired words of God we have today.

Side Note:

As for your username: 1986 was a special year for me. It was the year I met one of my close childhood buds. We were into Marvel comics, Gi-Joe, and way later we then both got into the Christian faith and the KJV.


....
When reading the Greek or Hebrew, how do you know what it says? You translate it into English, yes? The KJV has already accomplished this, yes? That's my view.
 
When reading the Greek or Hebrew, how do you know what it says? You translate it into English, yes? The KJV has already accomplished this, yes? That's my view.

Get a Strong's Greek / Hebrew dictionary to start with.

There are a few errors in the KJV such as when they translates passover as being easter which a pagan holiday

Because of this error in the KJV many believe in the easter bunny and hunt easter eggs rather than celebrating the resurrection of the Lord Jesus
 
When reading the Greek or Hebrew, how do you know what it says? You translate it into English, yes? The KJV has already accomplished this, yes? That's my view.

Brief Introduction​

Before examining Acts 14:12, I want to make my own position clear. I believe the standardized King James Bible is without error and is God’s word in English today. My position is best described as “KJV + Its Underlying Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.” I look to the underlying languages because certain words can reveal an added depth of meaning beyond what the English alone expresses. Acts 14:12 is a clear example of why this knowledge is necessary to avoid misunderstandings and provide a stronger defense of the KJV.

The Problem With an English-only Approach:​

The King James Bible says:

“And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker” (Acts 14:12).​

However, the underlying Greek in Beza’s 1598 text does not literally say “Jupiter” or “Mercurius.” The word translated “Jupiter” is Δία (Dia), the accusative form of Ζεύς (Zeus), while the word translated “Mercurius (Mercury)” is Ἑρμῆν (Hermes), the accusative form of Ἑρμῆς (Hermes). Therefore, in the strictest lexical sense, Luke’s Greek text says that the people called Barnabas Zeus and Paul Hermes. The KJV English says Jupiter and Mercurius, while Beza’s Greek says Zeus and Hermes. At first glance, the two appear to be saying different things.¹

A KJV English-only believer would have no way of knowing this merely by reading the English. He may naturally assume that the underlying text literally says Jupiter and Mercurius and that the people of Lystra were specifically identifying Barnabas and Paul with two Roman gods. Yet Luke’s Greek account identifies them by the Greek names Zeus and Hermes.

This is not a minor detail that should be brushed aside. It raises a real question: Why does the KJV say Jupiter when the Greek says Zeus?

The Missing Piece: Interpretatio Romana​

The answer is found in the real historical practice known as interpretatio Romana. This was the Roman habit of identifying a foreign god by the name of a Roman deity considered to be its counterpart. Through this practice, the Greek Zeus was identified with the Roman Jupiter, while the Greek Hermes was identified with the Roman Mercury. The Oxford Classical Dictionary describes interpretatio Romana as the Roman practice of replacing the name of a foreign deity with that of a comparable Roman deity.

Therefore, the KJV does not give the most strictly literal Greek names in Acts 14:12. It gives their long-established Roman or Latin equivalents. The underlying Greek says Zeus and Hermes, but the KJV presents them through interpretatio Romana as Jupiter and Mercurius.

This is the point that many KJV believers may find surprising or unbelievable. Interpretatio Romana is not a modern theory invented to explain away our beloved translation. It was a real naming practice that existed centuries before Christ, continued through the Roman and early Christian periods, appeared in Greek-Latin biblical manuscripts, remained visible throughout the Reformation era, and is still recognized in classical reference works and museums today.

There are other examples I could give like with Job and the Behemoth, but hopefully this point should suffice.

To learn more about interpretatio Romana with colored charts, links, quotes, inscriptions, manuscripts, and more, check out my sourced article starting at page 114 in this PDF writeup here:

"Is Knowledge of the Original Languages Necessary for KJV Believers? - PDF (Dropbox)"




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I believe the standardized King James Bible is without error

I only use the KJV because it's been the most accurate but it's not without error
Here's an example of an error in the KJV

Why does King James Bible Acts 12:4 say "Easter"?

Acts 12:4
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after easter to bring him forth to the people.

meta to pascha means "after Passover", but the same term, Pascha, is used for Easter in most languages. English and German are peculiar in calling it Easter (or in German, Ostern) rather than using a term derived from Pesach (Hebrew) / Pascha (Greek) for Passover.

The actual word the KJV translators translated in error to say "easter" is pascha (Strong's G3957)

of Aramaic origin (compare H6453); the Passover (the meal, the day, the festival or the special sacrifices connected with it): KJV -- Easter, Passover.

H6453 - pecach -- pronounced: peh'-sakh

from 6452; a pretermission, i.e. exemption; used only technically of the Jewish Passover (the festival or the victim): KJV -- passover (offering).


Pagan origins of easter

the Easter story comes from the Sumerian legend of Damuzi (Tammuz) and his wife Inanna (Ishtar), an epic myth called “The Descent of Inanna” found inscribed on cuneiform clay tablets dating back to 2100 BC. When Tammuz dies, Ishtar is grief–stricken and follows him to the underworld. In the underworld, she enters through seven gates, and her worldly attire is removed. "Naked and bowed low" she is judged, killed, and then hung on display. In her absence, the earth loses its fertility, crops cease to grow and animals stop reproducing. Unless something is done, all life on earth will end.

After Inanna has been missing for three days her assistant goes to other gods for help. Finally one of them Enki, creates two creatures who carry the plant of life and water of life down to the Underworld, sprinkling them on Inanna and Damuzi, resurrecting them, and giving them the power to return to the earth as the light of the sun for six months. After the six months are up, Tammuz returns to the underworld of the dead, remaining there for another six months, and Ishtar pursues him, prompting the water god to rescue them both. Thus were the cycles of winter death and spring life.

The Sumerian goddess Inanna is known outside of Mesopotamia by her Babylonian name, "Ishtar". In ancient Canaan Ishtar is known as Astarte, and her counterparts in the Greek and Roman pantheons are known as Aphrodite and Venus.

the story of Inanna and Damuzi is just one of a number of accounts of dying and rising gods that represent the cycle of the seasons and the stars. For example, the resurrection of Egyptian Horus; the story of Mithras, who was worshipped at Springtime; and the tale of Dionysus, resurrected by his grandmother. Among these stories are prevailing themes of fertility, conception, renewal, descent into darkness, and the triumph of light over darkness or good over evil.

Easter as a Celebration of the Goddess of Spring

A related perspective is that, rather than being a representation of the story of Ishtar, Easter was originally a celebration of Eostre, goddess of Spring, otherwise known as Ostara, Austra, and Eastre. One of the most revered aspects of Ostara for both ancient and modern observers is a spirit of renewal.

Celebrated at Spring Equinox on March 21, Ostara marks the day when light is equal to darkness, and will continue to grow. As the bringer of light after a long dark winter, the goddess was often depicted with the hare, an animal that represents the arrival of spring as well as the fertility of the season.
 
Get a Strong's Greek / Hebrew dictionary to start with.

There are a few errors in the KJV such as when they translates passover as being easter which a pagan holiday

Because of this error in the KJV many believe in the easter bunny and hunt easter eggs rather than celebrating the resurrection of the Lord Jesus

Easter is the NT word for Passover. It would be incorrect to interpret Pascha in that passage as Passover since it had been fulfilled. It's not a pagan holiday.
 
It would be incorrect to interpret Pascha in that passage as Passover since it had been fulfilled.

Jesus going to the Cross for our sins and being raised from the dead is the REAL passover that the passover in the old testament was pointing to.