looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

Toddini said:

What about the Ethiopian Bible? What gave man the authority to pick and chose what went into the canon? Why is Catholic, Protestant and Jewish all different as well? Please don't hang your hat on a manmade Canon process.

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Appealing to the Ethiopian canon does not solve your objection, because the issue is not “which group picked which books,” but which writings God Himself identifies as the voice of His Spirit.
Scripture says “holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Pet 1:21), and Paul says the church is built on “the apostles and prophets” (Eph 2:20), not on every ancient book ever written.
The Ethiopian canon preserves valuable ancient literature, but the presence of Enoch in their tradition does not make it inspired any more than Paul quoting pagan poets makes them inspired (Acts 17:28).
Canon is not “man choosing his favorites”; canon is recognizing which writings carry the mark of God’s own authority (2 Tim 3:16).
Jewish, Catholic, and Protestant canons differ because each tradition drew its boundary around what it believed matched that prophetic/apostolic voice — but none of those differences give non‑canonical books the right to define the creation calendar God never revealed. The question is simple: What did God breathe out? Only those writings can define time, covenant, and revelation.

OMC said:

No — God did not need “justification rest,” because Hebrews 4 is not saying God rested because He needed justification; it is saying the pattern of God’s rest explains the nature of our rest.

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Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

We are to cease from our works as God did from His.

God did not cease for spiritual rest or salvation rest.

God rested from labour and work and if we cease as God did we would keep the sabbath...

God ceased from work = first sabbath rest.
We copy God's rest = copy the first sabbath rest.

OMC said:

Appealing to the Ethiopian canon does not solve your objection, because the issue is not “which group picked which books,” but which writings God Himself identifies as the voice of His Spirit.
Scripture says “holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Pet 1:21), and Paul says the church is built on “the apostles and prophets” (Eph 2:20), not on every ancient book ever written.
The Ethiopian canon preserves valuable ancient literature, but the presence of Enoch in their tradition does not make it inspired any more than Paul quoting pagan poets makes them inspired (Acts 17:28).
Canon is not “man choosing his favorites”; canon is recognizing which writings carry the mark of God’s own authority (2 Tim 3:16).
Jewish, Catholic, and Protestant canons differ because each tradition drew its boundary around what it believed matched that prophetic/apostolic voice — but none of those differences give non‑canonical books the right to define the creation calendar God never revealed. The question is simple: What did God breathe out? Only those writings can define time, covenant, and revelation.

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Let's put 2 Tim 3:16 into context shall we.

When Paul refers to the sacred writings Timothy had known since childhood (verse 15), he is referring to the Jewish Scriptures.
These included the Law, the Prophets, and other sacred writings that would eventually constitute the Hebrew Bible. The complete 27-book New Testament did not yet exist as a collected canon. Consequently, Timothy could not have understood Paul's reference to his childhood Scriptures as referring to the completed Protestant Bible of 66 books. That does not establish that Paul intended to exclude later Christian writings. It establishes the immediate historical reference of his statement.

TMS said:

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

We are to cease from our works as God did from His.

God did not cease for spiritual rest or salvation rest.

God rested from labour and work and if we cease as God did we would keep the sabbath...

God ceased from work = first sabbath rest.
We copy God's rest = copy the first sabbath rest.

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Hebrews 4:10 does not say “cease from labor the way God ceased from labor,” it says “cease from works the way God ceased from His,” and the text itself defines those works as unbelief, disobedience, and failure to enter God’s promise (Heb 3:12–19; 4:2–3), not plowing fields or weekly labor.
God’s “works” in Gen 2:2 were creation‑works, not moral striving; our “works” in Heb 4:10 are self‑justifying works, not physical labor.
The analogy is pattern, not content: God rested because His work was finished (Gen 2:2); we rest because Christ’s work is finished (Heb 10:12).
If you force “God rested from labor, therefore we rest from labor,” you make Hebrews teach that salvation = taking Saturdays off, which contradicts Paul saying justification is “not of works” (Rom 4:5) and that Sabbath‑keeping is not binding (Col 2:16).
Hebrews 4 is not commanding a weekly Sabbath; it is commanding faith‑rest, entering Christ’s finished work.
The text itself makes your interpretation impossible.

Toddini said:

Let's put 2 Tim 3:16 into context shall we.

When Paul refers to the sacred writings Timothy had known since childhood (verse 15), he is referring to the Jewish Scriptures.
These included the Law, the Prophets, and other sacred writings that would eventually constitute the Hebrew Bible. The complete 27-book New Testament did not yet exist as a collected canon. Consequently, Timothy could not have understood Paul's reference to his childhood Scriptures as referring to the completed Protestant Bible of 66 books. That does not establish that Paul intended to exclude later Christian writings. It establishes the immediate historical reference of his statement.

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Your point about 2 Tim 3:16 is correct in its historical reference — Timothy’s childhood Scriptures were the Jewish canon — but your conclusion is wrong, because Paul is not limiting inspiration to what Timothy already had; he is defining the nature of Scripture, not the contents of Timothy’s bookshelf.

OMC said:

Your point about 2 Tim 3:16 is correct in its historical reference — Timothy’s childhood Scriptures were the Jewish canon — but your conclusion is wrong, because Paul is not limiting inspiration to what Timothy already had; he is defining the nature of Scripture, not the contents of Timothy’s bookshelf.

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When Timothy was instructed to rely upon the sacred writings he had known since childhood, which Jewish writings were available to him, and which did he actually regard as Scripture? That question takes us directly into the Second Temple manuscript evidence, including Genesis, Enoch, Jubilees, and the writings discovered at Qumran. The existence of those writings does not establish that Timothy regarded all of them as Scripture. But neither does 2 Timothy 3:16, by itself, settle their status.

That requires examining the historical evidence independently.

Toddini said:

When Timothy was instructed to rely upon the sacred writings he had known since childhood, which Jewish writings were available to him, and which did he actually regard as Scripture? That question takes us directly into the Second Temple manuscript evidence, including Genesis, Enoch, Jubilees, and the writings discovered at Qumran. The existence of those writings does not establish that Timothy regarded all of them as Scripture. But neither does 2 Timothy 3:16, by itself, settle their status.

That requires examining the historical evidence independently.

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“historical evidence” doesn’t actually help your argument, because the question in 2 Tim 3:16 is not “What writings existed in Second Temple Judaism?” but “Which writings does God call Scripture?”
Timothy’s childhood Scriptures were the Jewish canon — the Law, Prophets, and Writings — and yes, Qumran possessed Genesis, Enoch, Jubilees, and many other texts.
But possession is not inspiration.
The Jews at Qumran also possessed the War Scroll, Temple Scroll, Thanksgiving Hymns, and dozens of sectarian documents; none of those were considered Scripture by the mainstream Jewish community, by Jesus, or by the apostles.
Paul’s statement in 2 Tim 3:16 gives the criterion (“God‑breathed”), not the catalogue.
And Peter settles the question by explicitly calling Paul’s letters “Scripture” (2 Pet 3:16), proving that canon is determined by prophetic/apostolic authority, not by archaeological discovery.
So yes — you must examine historical evidence — but Scripture itself tells you which writings carry God’s breath, and that list does not expand just because Qumran owned extra books.

OMC said:

“historical evidence” doesn’t actually help your argument, because the question in 2 Tim 3:16 is not “What writings existed in Second Temple Judaism?” but “Which writings does God call Scripture?”
Timothy’s childhood Scriptures were the Jewish canon — the Law, Prophets, and Writings — and yes, Qumran possessed Genesis, Enoch, Jubilees, and many other texts.
But possession is not inspiration.
The Jews at Qumran also possessed the War Scroll, Temple Scroll, Thanksgiving Hymns, and dozens of sectarian documents; none of those were considered Scripture by the mainstream Jewish community, by Jesus, or by the apostles.
Paul’s statement in 2 Tim 3:16 gives the criterion (“God‑breathed”), not the catalogue.
And Peter settles the question by explicitly calling Paul’s letters “Scripture” (2 Pet 3:16), proving that canon is determined by prophetic/apostolic authority, not by archaeological discovery.
So yes — you must examine historical evidence — but Scripture itself tells you which writings carry God’s breath, and that list does not expand just because Qumran owned extra books.

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I do not put much faith in man, for example: Constantine could summon a council and enforce its decisions. That did not establish whether a particular ancient writing was originally inspired by God.

Toddini said:

I do not put much faith in man, for example: Constantine could summon a council and enforce its decisions. That did not establish whether a particular ancient writing was originally inspired by God.

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I put zero faith in man, that includes me. Scripture speaks for itself as to the "God Breathed" parts as they never contradict. That said, Scripture is not written to confuse or create chaos. Man adds chaos by confusing their feelings with inspired text by saying "that must be a misinterpretation", or, "that must mean something else".
I don't trust myself to interpret anything correctly. But the Lord teaches just fine by his words and discernment is my ally.

TMS said:

Exo 16:22-28
22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. 23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. 24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein. 25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field. 26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. 27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. 28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

The principle is simple. Don't go gathering food on the sabbath when you can gather it the day before.

The labour was not to be done on the sabbath.

Jesus was walking through a field and plucked corn... was that labour ? No it wasn't. If Jesus was harvesting or laboring in the field it would have been breaking the sabbath. But what Jesus did was not labour.

Exo 20:9-10
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

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Actually it was not corn but you have the right idea.
The Greek word means "grain".
Corn was New World staple and not known in the old world.

OMC said:

I put zero faith in man, that includes me. Scripture speaks for itself as to the "God Breathed" parts as they never contradict. That said, Scripture is not written to confuse or create chaos. Man adds chaos by confusing their feelings with inspired text by saying "that must be a misinterpretation", or, "that must mean something else".
I don't trust myself to interpret anything correctly. But the Lord teaches just fine by his words and discernment is my ally.

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Yes, it was man that added chaos.
In a deliberate attempt to supplant the 7th day sabbath and substitute a different day based on pagan beliefs/practices/indoctrinated teachings.
Fact is only one of the 10 commandments actually tells us which God gave this law (Exo 20:11). He is the Creator of all things.
Yes, pagan religions can have good moral laws concerning murder, theft, adultery, worshiping other gods besides their own.
But without the 7th-day sabbath of the 4th commandment the Creator is not there.

How do you know which god you worship if it is not the Creator of all things. He has been taken out of His own law.

OMC said:

Hebrews 4:10 does not say “cease from labor the way God ceased from labor,” it says “cease from works the way God ceased from His,” and the text itself defines those works as unbelief, disobedience, and failure to enter God’s promise (Heb 3:12–19; 4:2–3), not plowing fields or weekly labor.
God’s “works” in Gen 2:2 were creation‑works, not moral striving; our “works” in Heb 4:10 are self‑justifying works, not physical labor.
The analogy is pattern, not content: God rested because His work was finished (Gen 2:2); we rest because Christ’s work is finished (Heb 10:12).
If you force “God rested from labor, therefore we rest from labor,” you make Hebrews teach that salvation = taking Saturdays off, which contradicts Paul saying justification is “not of works” (Rom 4:5) and that Sabbath‑keeping is not binding (Col 2:16).
Hebrews 4 is not commanding a weekly Sabbath; it is commanding faith‑rest, entering Christ’s finished work.
The text itself makes your interpretation impossible.

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That WAS God's labor.
Six days to create the world. He is the Creator of all things. That was His labor.

But on the 7th day He rested.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Davidstarr said:

It was already known. There was no contention about another day of worship.

There are over 80 weekly accounts of the apostles keeping the 7th day sabbath on a weekly basis in the book of Acts alone.
Not one example of Sunday keeping on a weekly basis.

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And STILL there are no instructions in the New Covenant for Christians to observe Saturday and there are no warnings in the New Covenant telling us those that don't observe Saturday are living in sin and will burn in hell for not observing Saturday. Weird.

So you are basically taking your personal opinion and are trying to push it onto others without having scripture from the New Covenant that instructs Christians to observe Saturday or warns Christians that no observing Saturday is sinful. Even more Weird.

Romans 14:5 - One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.”

In other words, Sabbath observance is not a moral issue but one of personal preference and freedom. One cannot imagine Paul saying, “One man is faithful to his wife and another has several mistresses. Each one should be firmly convinced in his own mind what he should do.

If a person wants to observe the Sabbath (on Saturday or Sunday) as a healthy practice, that is fine—but it is a personal decision and is not required for salvation.

Galatians 4:10,11 - Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

NO WHERE in the New Covenant are Christians told that not observing Saturday is sinful.
You can play like the Lord said it is, but He did not. You opinion doesn't count as God's Word as you suppose.

OMC said:

I put zero faith in man, that includes me. Scripture speaks for itself as to the "God Breathed" parts as they never contradict. That said, Scripture is not written to confuse or create chaos. Man adds chaos by confusing their feelings with inspired text by saying "that must be a misinterpretation", or, "that must mean something else".
I don't trust myself to interpret anything correctly. But the Lord teaches just fine by his words and discernment is my ally.

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Maybe we need a scapegoat

Toddini said:

Maybe we need a scapegoat

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Hey we can use the Saturday people!

Freed18 said:

Absolutely.
But the OT sabbath keepers used the commandment to keep one day separate to free themselves from keeping the other days holy too.

It says nothing about worship.

What if he is retired ? Or sick ?
Or injured and can't work ?
Is he breaking a commandment from God if he heals instead of works 6 days ?

As a NT man, I rejoice in my freedoms from OT Laws that were only a shadow of the coming Christ, and life in Him.
OT...Keep one day holy-separate.
NT...Keep everyday holy and be separate from this world and its filth.

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The OT along with other ancient writings build the foundation and structure and the NT is the shinny floors and wall paint. Without the foundation and structure, the floor and paint don't exist.

Churchgoer said:

That's the reason I believe 7th is important. Every 7 days is a cycle. You can start today if you are a firefighter. He can start tomorrow is he is a doctor.
We should rest one day at least every 7 days. On this rest day, have a holy convocation rest in God.

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Does it matter which day we rest.
Does God specify which day was sanctified and set aside for holy use.

God was specific about which tree to not eat of... we can't just take any day and say that will be okay.. God was specific.

Mar 2:27-28
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

There is only one day in the seven that is the sabbath of the LORD.

OMC said:

Hebrews 4:10 does not say “cease from labor the way God ceased from labor,” it says “cease from works the way God ceased from His,” and the text itself defines those works as unbelief, disobedience, and failure to enter God’s promise (Heb 3:12–19; 4:2–3), not plowing fields or weekly labor.
God’s “works” in Gen 2:2 were creation‑works, not moral striving; our “works” in Heb 4:10 are self‑justifying works, not physical labor.
The analogy is pattern, not content: God rested because His work was finished (Gen 2:2); we rest because Christ’s work is finished (Heb 10:12).
If you force “God rested from labor, therefore we rest from labor,” you make Hebrews teach that salvation = taking Saturdays off, which contradicts Paul saying justification is “not of works” (Rom 4:5) and that Sabbath‑keeping is not binding (Col 2:16).
Hebrews 4 is not commanding a weekly Sabbath; it is commanding faith‑rest, entering Christ’s finished work.
The text itself makes your interpretation impossible.

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I did not say Heb 4 does not include rest in Jesus. Rest throught the faith in what Jesus has done...

The verses leading up to verse 9 uses the word rest... but verse 9 uses the word Sabbath rest..

So I say BOTH ARE INCLUDED.

Heb 4:9-10
9 There remaineth therefore a rest (sabbath rest) to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest (Jesus's rest),
notice ALSO.
he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

WHAT WORKS DID GOD CEASE FROM?

physical labour.. and the sabbath rest was implemented..

We are to rest in Christ's salvation by faith, but also to cease from work like God did on the sabbath.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

ScooterJackson said:

So you are basically taking your personal opinion and are trying to push it onto others without having scripture from the New Covenant that instructs Christians to observe Saturday or warns Christians that no observing Saturday is sinful. Even more Weird.

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Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Mat 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mat 19:17-18
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Jas 2:10-12
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.


Jesus, our perfect example, consistently observed the seventh-day Sabbath. He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it, asserting that not even the smallest mark would pass from the law while heaven and earth remain.

it was His Custom: It was His regular practice to worship on the Sabbath day Luke 4:16.
He clarified that the Sabbath was made for the benefit of all humanity, not just one nation Mark 2:27.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
When speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem (which occurred decades after His resurrection), He instructed His followers to pray that their flight would not be on the Sabbath day, showing His expectation of its continued sacredness

Following the resurrection, the apostles continued to recognize and observe the seventh-day Sabbath as the day for worship and preaching the Word of God.

Acts 17:2, Acts 14:42-44. Acts 18:4,11.

There is heaps of verses that show that the sabbath remains.

TMS said:

Jesus, our perfect example, consistently observed the seventh-day Sabbath

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And then totally forgot to instruct His followers to observe Saturday

Then totally forget to tell us those that don't observe Saturday are living in sin and will burn in hell for not observing Saturday. Weird.