One of Satan’s main attack - the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

Burn1986 said:

Have you ever wondered why the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not taught in virtually any church really? The majority of churches today are denominational churches, which date back to a time when the churches did away with the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and only dealt with water baptism. While there’s nothing wrong with strictly water baptism and salvation in the name of Jesus, Jesus came specifically not only to die for us and be resurrected, but to bring baptism of the Holy Spirit. The disciples received it. They laid hands on believers after that so they would receive it, and it was a focal point of the first church. Yet through institutional pressures, lack of faith, and fear, it was eradicated. Yet, it’s still remains as something that Jesus brought to every believer:

- “I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’”
‭‭John‬ ‭1‬:‭33‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

- “And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

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“And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2‬:‭2‬-‭4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

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“For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭14‬:‭2‬, ‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

There are much more scriptures. But before this gets argued away over the next (probably) 200+ pages, ask God (yes, pray) that God will give you revelation and discernment on this

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I agree that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a major New Testament theme and that it is sometimes given less attention than water baptism.
John the Baptist specifically distinguished his ministry from Christ's by saying that Christ would baptize with the Holy Spirit (John 1:33), and Acts certainly records dramatic outpourings of the Spirit.

Where I would push back is on the claim that "virtually no church teaches it" or that it was "eradicated."
Many churches teach the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but they disagree on what Scripture means by it.
The real debate is not whether the Holy Spirit baptizes believers, but whether that baptism is a second experience after conversion, whether tongues always accompany it, and whether the events in Acts are descriptive of unique historical moments or prescriptive for every believer.

For example, Paul says: "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body" (1 Cor. 12:13).
Many Christians understand that to mean every believer has already been baptized by the Spirit at conversion.
Others understand Acts to teach a subsequent empowerment accompanied by gifts such as tongues.

I do agree with you on one important point: this subject should not be approached merely as an academic argument.
Prayer, humility, and a willingness to submit to Scripture are essential.
However, I would also be cautious about implying that everyone who reaches a different conclusion simply lacks faith or revelation. Godly believers have wrestled with these passages for centuries.

So I think the strongest question is not: "Why don't churches teach the baptism of the Holy Spirit?"
But rather: "What exactly does the New Testament mean by the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and how does Acts relate to the teaching of the epistles?"
That is where the real discussion lies.

Burn1986 said:

I wish you all spoke with tongues,

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There's a difference between "wishing" and reality. In 1 Corinthians 12:30 Paul acknowledges not all speak with tongues: "Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?" The question is rhetorical and the answer is no.

OMC said:

So I think the strongest question is not: "Why don't churches teach the baptism of the Holy Spirit?"
But rather: "What exactly does the New Testament mean by the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and how does Acts relate to the teaching of the epistles?" That is where the real discussion lies.

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Howdy! It would be nice but not very thankful, original. In other words, place must be given to His leading.

Burn1986 said:

Have you ever wondered why the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not taught in virtually any church really?

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Pentecostal Churches? Ha, you might hear an invitation and call twice a year in some.

Interesting and glad to see your interest. Curious on your screen name's '1986', as the year I received the BHS. To the day, June 1st, when the 1986 Atlantic hurricane season officially began on that day. Lol. Glory to God!

PAC-fit said:

Howdy! It would be nice but not very thankful, original. In other words, place must be given to His leading.

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A thoughtful response, but I would suggest that the discussion should not be limited to finding a single, precise definition detached from the Spirit's ongoing work in believers.
While it is certainly important to ask what the New Testament means by the baptism of the Holy Spirit and how Acts relates to the epistles, we must also leave room for the Holy Spirit Himself to guide our understanding through the whole counsel of Scripture.
The apostles did not merely define doctrines; they testified to the living work of God among His people.
Therefore, while careful exegesis is essential, place must also be given to the Spirit's leading, lest our theology become merely an exercise in definition rather than a recognition of God's active work in the life of the believer.

OMC said:

", , we must also leave room for the Holy Spirit Himself to guide our understanding through the whole counsel of Scripture.

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This one for certain should be echoed till He come. But I got to tell you, when such simple terms as Ananias laying his hands on Saul with the distinct purpose for the Holy Spirit Baptism, something I have missplaced somehow over the facts surrounding this while conversely, the mature are advised in Hebrews 6:2 of setting aside the doctrine of "laying on of hands"?

PAC-fit said:

This one for certain should be echoed till He come. But I got to tell you, when such simple terms as Ananias laying his hands on Saul with the distinct purpose for the Holy Spirit Baptism, something I have missplaced somehow over the facts surrounding this while conversely, the mature are advised in Hebrews 6:2 of setting aside the doctrine of "laying on of hands"?

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I don't think Hebrews 6:1-2 is teaching believers to abandon the laying on of hands any more than it teaches them to abandon repentance, faith, resurrection, or eternal judgment.
Those are all listed together as foundational doctrines: "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection..." (Heb. 6:1).
The writer is saying we should build upon these foundations, not keep relaying them over and over again.

We see the laying on of hands continue after Hebrews was written.
Ananias laid hands on Saul so that he might receive his sight and be filled with the Holy Ghost (Acts 9:17).
The apostles laid hands on believers (Acts 8:17), and Paul laid hands on disciples at Ephesus, after which they received the Holy Ghost (Acts 19:6).

So I would not read Hebrews 6:2 as saying, "Stop practicing the laying on of hands."
Rather, it is saying, "Don't remain spiritual infants constantly revisiting the elementary teachings.
Grow on to maturity."

The real question then becomes whether the laying on of hands in Acts was a foundational apostolic practice associated with the reception of the Holy Spirit and ministry, or whether it was only a temporary sign for the earliest church.
That is the point that must be demonstrated from Scripture.

As it stands, Hebrews 6:2 seems to treat the laying on of hands as an important foundational doctrine, not as something to be discarded.

If I may, can I address this in increments?

Burn1986 said:

Have you ever wondered why the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not taught in virtually any church really? The majority of churches today are denominational churches, which date back to a time when the churches did away with the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and only dealt with water baptism. While there’s nothing wrong with strictly water baptism and salvation in the name of Jesus, Jesus came specifically not only to die for us and be resurrected, but to bring baptism of the Holy Spirit. The disciples received it. They laid hands on believers after that so they would receive it, and it was a focal point of the first church. Yet through institutional pressures, lack of faith, and fear, it was eradicated. Yet, it’s still remains as something that Jesus brought to every believer:

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Baptism of the Holy Spirit was different to water baptism…..John’s baptism prepared the Jewish people for the coming of the Lord Jesus. But those who accepted Jesus as their Savior had to be baptized as his disciples. (baptized in his name)

The baptism of the Holy Spirit became operative on those believers (120 of them gathered in an upper room, as Jesus had promised. John 14:26)…so after Jesus sent the promised Holy Spirit at Pentecost, his anointed disciples had the gift of healing and prophesy, and they were able to speak in foreign languages, and so that all those Jews who came to Jerusalem for the festival, were able to understand the Christian message in their own language. (Our mother tongue is called “the language of the heart”)

This gift of “tongues” allowed them to be understood by people from at least 15 different lands.
People had come from three continents—from as far as Mesopotamia on the east, to Rome on the west and to Libya and Egypt on the south. Each was able to hear, in his own language, “about the magnificent things of God.”
Hearing and accepting these things, many later took the thrilling message and what they witnessed, back to their homes, and it spread it quickly over a very wide area. (Acts 2:5-11)

Burn1986 said:

- “I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’”‭‭ John‬ ‭1‬:‭33‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

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This is John the Baptist, describing Jesus Christ at his own baptism….the one who was receiving the Holy Spirit himself, and was going to send God’s spirit to his disciples later, to empower them to perform the same kinds of miracles that he did. So first of all, we need to know why God provided these miracles in the first place.

What did they accomplish?
Miracles took place in earlier Bible times but not like this. Those earlier demonstrations of God’s power were to impress God’s enemies and to demonstrate his superiority over the false gods of the nations.

In this case the miracles were sent to impress God’s own people and to draw their attention to the fact that God had sent the Savior promised to them in the Scriptures…but their religious leaders had taken God’s people off the rails, spiritually speaking. (Matt 23:13, 15) Their expectations concerning the Messiah were distorted and Jesus, the humble carpenter, simply didn’t fit their image of him. He was making them look bad, by performing miracles that they couldn’t deny, and their pride was hurting. This led, not only to their rejection of him, but also to the persecution of his disciples.

Those who responded from among the Jews were specifically those to whom Jesus was sent…..”the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt 15:24) ….the very ones whom the religious leaders neglected as unworthy of their time and attention…..”skinned and thrown about like sheep without a shepherd”…these are the ones who responded to Jesus and his miracles. So were these miracles to remain, or were they for a time and a reason? Paul made an interesting observation…..after defining what love means he said….

“Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.” (1 Cor 13:8-13)

Paul likens the attraction to miracles as the traits of a child….spiritual babies need milk, but they have to grow up. Solid food in the form of knowledge had to fortify these new believers, as the traits of a child yielded to the maturity of an adult. Persecution was coming and they needed their faith to be strong. Miracles were not going to save anyone….they were given to attract people and bring them to Christ.
It did bring them to Christ, and it served that purpose…but once that purpose was served, the miracles were to cease.

“Faith, hope and love” would now identify the genuine Christians…not immature Christians who just wanted to see and participate in “miracles”. This why they were to cease….that kind of Christianity was about what God could do for them, rather than what Christians would do for God and each other.

So why do we have these churches who put such great store by the performance of these gifts?…faith healings and speaking in tongues is the most common…..but if they are not from God, then by whose power are they manifested?…and why are they only seen in “Pentecostal” churches?

Burn1986 said:

“And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2‬:‭2‬-‭4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

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Why were the gifts given even after Jesus death and resurrection? It was to continue the momentum of what Jesus started, to keep unbelievers coming into the Christian congregations….Jews first, and then Gentiles were added.
Once the Christian faith was strong enough, the gifts were no longer necessary.

Burn1986 said:

“For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭14‬:‭2‬, ‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

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I do not see how these gifts were in evidence after the apostolic period…..with the death of the apostles, (as it was through the laying on of their hands that the gifts were transferred to others) the gifts ceased as they were simply a demonstration of what was to come under the future rule of God’s Kingdom. Sickness, suffering and death continue to take their toll on humanity, as we are still going through the greatest object lesson in human history. Only Jesus’ return would bring it to a finish.

In the beginning, the gifts were evident among the elect (or anointed ones) who were to join Christ in heaven, as rulers and priests in his Kingdom, (Rev 20:6) but those experiencing the anointing of God’s spirit after the cessation of the gifts, would do so without the fireworks as it were. It would be done quietly, without fanfare. (Rom 8:15-17)

Burn1986 said:

There are much more scriptures. But before this gets argued away over the next (probably) 200+ pages, ask God (yes, pray) that God will give you revelation and discernment on this

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I hope I have not burdened you with too much information, but as a Bible student, everything has to fall into place and be consistent throughout the whole Bible.
The reason why there are no gifts of Holy Spirit conferred on people today is because the Bible says that they were to cease, having served their purpose.

The great deceiver is at work in the world today, (1 John 5:19) as he always has been, and he doesn’t always appear to be evil…he can pretend to be a good guy…”an angel of light” even. (2 Cor 11: 13-15) Jesus said the devil was going to sow seeds of counterfeit Christianity….”the wheat and the weeds”. (Matt 13:24-30; 36-42) So deception would be obvious in those counterfeit churches….again satan can masquerade as a good guy. He can do miracles too…just not as successful as first century miracles.

“Miraculous gifts” today, I do not believe are an evidence of God’s spirit, nor do I believe that all Christians are going to heaven. God created humans to live on the earth…in paradise conditions forever….he created angels to live in heaven, forever. God has a heavenly family and an earthly one….he wanted them to live in harmony.
When we recall that a rift occurred right at the beginning of human history, where a heavenly son rebelled when God brought forth a human family…..what has taken place on earth since then is the outcome of that rebellion….and God’s solution to end it.

In choosing some faithful humans to assist Christ in the administration of his Kingdom…all of earth’s rulers will have lived as humans on earth…including its Commander in Chief. The best “government” that humans could ever have! Jesus taught us to pray for it….when God’s will is done “on earth as it is in heaven.”
We were promised a “new earth” under the rulership of “the Prince of Peace”.
This is not a new planet, but a new earthly society ruled from heaven to restore God’s first purpose for us us here on the earth in the beginning. This was never supposed to be a training ground for heaven.

Just my view from my study of the Bible…

JemimaJade said:

I do not see how these gifts were in evidence after the apostolic period…..with the death of the apostles, (as it was through the laying on of their hands that the gifts were transferred to others) the gifts ceased as they were simply a demonstration of what was to come under the future rule of God’s Kingdom. Sickness, suffering and death continue to take their toll on humanity, as we are still going through the greatest object lesson in human history. Only Jesus’ return would bring it to a finish.

In the beginning, the gifts were evident among the elect (or anointed ones) who were to join Christ in heaven, as rulers and priests in his Kingdom, (Rev 20:6) but those experiencing the anointing of God’s spirit after the cessation of the gifts, would do so without the fireworks as it were. It would be done quietly, without fanfare. (Rom 8:15-17)

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I appreciate your desire to make all the Scriptures fit together, but I think you are bringing several conclusions to the text that the text itself never states.

You say the gifts ceased because they had served their purpose, yet none of the passages you cited actually says that.
In 1 Corinthians 13 Paul says prophecies, tongues, and knowledge will cease, but he places that when "the perfect" comes and when we see "face to face" and know fully as we are known (1 Cor. 13:10-12).
The passage itself does not say this happened when the apostles died, when the church became established, or when the New Testament was completed.

You also argue that the gifts could only be passed on through the apostles' laying on of hands.
But Acts does not consistently show that.
At Pentecost the Spirit came directly from heaven (Acts 2:1-4), and at Cornelius' house the Holy Spirit fell on Gentiles before any laying on of hands is mentioned (Acts 10:44-48).
Therefore the claim that the gifts necessarily ended with the death of the apostles is not established by Scripture.

Likewise, 1 Corinthians 14 shows Paul regulating tongues and prophecy, not preparing the church for their imminent disappearance. In fact, he says, "forbid not to speak with tongues" (1 Cor. 14:39).
If the Spirit intended the gifts to vanish within a generation, the text never says so.

I also think you are reading a specific framework into Revelation and Romans when you distinguish between a heavenly class of Christians and another class destined only for earth.
Romans 8:14-17 says all who are led by the Spirit are God's children and heirs with Christ.
The passage itself does not divide believers into two classes.

Most importantly, Scripture repeatedly tells believers to test the spirits (1 John 4:1), not simply to assume every supernatural claim is from God, nor to assume every claim is from Satan.
The biblical test is whether it agrees with the apostolic gospel and the truth about Christ.

So my difficulty is not with your desire for consistency.
My difficulty is that the conclusions "the gifts ceased with the apostles," "the perfect is the end of the apostolic age," and "only a limited group go to heaven" are not stated in the texts you cite.
Those conclusions come from a framework that is then used to interpret the passages, rather than being plainly taught by the passages themselves.
If those doctrines are true, they should be demonstrable from explicit Scripture, not from inferences built upon other inferences.

Of course, the formal stroke of this attack was through all who submitted to the Edict of Milan.