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  1. Beekeeper

    More about Israel.

    Of course faithful Jews are included in the Abrahamic covenant. National Israel is a different matter however, because it is entirely bound to the Mosaic covenant . If I gave the impression that I do not think the conclusion of hope is in the kingdom of heaven, that is a pity. I am not even...
  2. Beekeeper

    More about Israel.

    Actually when we read the passage from Deuteronomy 30:1-10 we see from v.1 that it is in the context of the blessing and the curse. God tells of the wonderful things that He would have done for the nation "IF thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his...
  3. Beekeeper

    Harvesting of the Earth

    Was meant to be: Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
  4. Beekeeper

    Harvesting of the Earth

    My view is that Christ was in the beginning with God, and is the redeemer of all the faithful in all times. Job was a contemporary of Abraham, and when he says: "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth" (Job 18:25), he speaks of Jesus. No man...
  5. Beekeeper

    Harvesting of the Earth

    I would need you to clarify that before I could make sense of it. What do you call a "Gentile Church"? Is that a congregation that begins on it's own authority and denies it's OT roots? Is it just a congregation that contains persons born into bloodlines other than that of Jacob? Is it about...
  6. Beekeeper

    Harvesting of the Earth

    It is JESUS that addresses the churches at Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodocea. Are you telling us that all the people that Jesus was addressing believed that they were under the law of Moses?
  7. Beekeeper

    Harvesting of the Earth

    I must have misunderstood the context of what you were saying. When you mentioned "remnant" I thought of the remnant of Paul's kinsmen in Romans 11. There is nothing about any nation state in that chapter, only that this remnant was reserved by God to become Christians. Regarding the modern...
  8. Beekeeper

    Harvesting of the Earth

    The moment when "all Israel shall be saved" (Romans 11:26) is the very same moment that the last Gentile comes to saving faith in Jesus.
  9. Beekeeper

    More about Israel.

    You cover many points, and to avoid I will not try to answer everything yet. Heavenly Jerusalem and the reign of Christ are both present realities in my understanding, and the next prophesied event I expect to happen is the second and final coming of Christ. The Abrahamic and Mosaic covenants...
  10. Beekeeper

    Harvesting of the Earth

    I have not heard many sermons about the 70AD destruction of Jerusalem, despite the fact that it is prophesies about many times throughout the Bible. The destruction of old covenant Jerusalem is essential to understanding the New Covenant. Jesus did not only get crucified and rise from the dead...
  11. Beekeeper

    Harvesting of the Earth

    Not a new error. John 12:13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord. One week later: John 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him...
  12. Beekeeper

    Harvesting of the Earth

    Your Irenaeus quote is the foundation that the 90s AD argument rests on, and it was misinterpreted by Eusebius (260-340). Eusebius was not a fan of the book of Revelations and attributed it to "John the Elder", not the apostle. Irenaeus is not saying that the book of Revelations was seen written...
  13. Beekeeper

    Harvesting of the Earth

    I am aware that there were survivors, but that is not my point. The fact is that Jerusalem was destroyed with the temple and the sacrifice and the corrupt priesthood. Nothing like old covenant earthly Israel has ever been restored, nor ever will in the eyes of God. Our Christian faith does not...
  14. Beekeeper

    Harvesting of the Earth

    Romans 11:5 Even so then at THIS PRESENT TIME also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. Which present time would Paul be talking about? That would of course be the present time in which he was writing. Only the tribes of Benjamin and Judah still remained as identifiable...
  15. Beekeeper

    Harvesting of the Earth

    The children of Israel were under the covenant given at Mt. Sinai. It was a conditional covenant (Deuteronomy 28) and all but Jesus have broken the conditions, so for the rest of us it is obsolete. It is not obsolete however with Jesus, because He has kept the law. It so happens that Jesus is...
  16. Beekeeper

    More about Israel.

    I think that I have to agree with you on a deeper level that faith itself must be an act of God, or the spirit of God working in us. If that was not the case we would be bringing our own pride to God for having done our part of the job. Rightly or wrongly I have adopted the habit of speaking in...
  17. Beekeeper

    More about Israel.

    You can't blame me for finding this interpretation weird. Not only do you have the perfect sacrifice who has already payed the price of salvation watching the ceremonial sacrifice that was supposed to remind people of Himself, but if an everlasting earthly land/circumcision covenant is added...
  18. Beekeeper

    More about Israel.

    Those who put their faith in Jesus inherit the eternal "land" promise made to Abraham. Nobody can inherit an eternal earthly kingdom, because the earth is to pass away. Christians, like Abraham, are called to be citizens of Jerusalem Above (Galatians 4:21-28). Earthly Jerusalem no longer exists...
  19. Beekeeper

    More about Israel.

    Who for? Jesus?
  20. Beekeeper

    More about Israel.

    In this time it encompasses the whole world and the kingdom of heaven as well, as all of this rightly belongs to Jesus. Abraham was to be the father of MANY nations. Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the WORLD, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but...