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I don't see this subject as being about submission to evil government. Our Lord never agreed with evil edicts. He spoke against them. To me, the subject is about submission to God no metter how evil an authority he allows to rule is. I don't see "the wine of Gods' wrath" as persecution of...

No. I'm saying he overcame it. It makes him the greatest Witness to the sins of mankind. Those men like their Savior faced death head on. I think we'll all know when our hour has come.

That is a great point Live4Him3, but we should also remember our Lords' reply to Pilate, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: Jn.19:11 Our King did't rebel against a corrupt government.

You're right.

I know I wasn't. As a very young child, I had great faith in God, even if it was from the simple understanding of a childs mind.

Looking back on my own life, how God loved me when I was unlovable, I can say without doubt that not loving God is the most unnatural thing on earth.

I've done nothing but agree. Paul said he died when the commandment came, that is, when he became aware of what God calls sin. He was alive spiritually before that. I haven't denied it. I said man is dead in his own sins, not the sins of any other.

You ignore the scripture I cited. I won't ignore the scripture you cited. Eph.2:1,5 don't say people are born spiritually dead. Look at Eph.2:2. We were dead in the sins we walked in, not transfered on to us by Adam our forefather. We were dead because we listened to the devil. God says he...

[ brightflame52, People are born into this world spiritually alive. It's knowledge of what is evil and doing evil that causes death, I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin came to life, and I died; Rom.7:9

You're right. He died for people who didn't love him. Wow!

I mean 2Cor.5:14. He means live as Christ lived among us.

God began by creating Adam in his image. When the Bible says the "natural man" doesn't receive the things of the Spirit, it means those who live according to sinful desires. Paul doesn't mean mankind has no desire for God.

Yes, but here, Paul is speaking of the death of the flesh, the desires of it, being "constrained".

Hello Runningman. Faith is a work of his Spirit, because many believed when they heard of the works he was doing by his Spirit. Please compare this with the scriptures you cited and see if it isn't so.

Vs.19 for sure, but vs.14 is a deep spiritual truth, For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: vs.14 He's showing why he and all people should consider ourselves dead, because our Savior did, because of his love of mankind...

Jn.12:23-24 has our Lord saying the gospel has gone out to the world. Greek believers came seeking him, because the heard about him raising Lazarus from the dead (vss.17-22). Then Jesus said, If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man...

In this passage, our Lord is teaching us that no one could love their parents, their friends and all mankind more than he does, but he was abused by someones father, son, mother, daughter. So in fact, our sweet Savior wants us to know is that some people will despise the love we have for them.

In Acts and the letters, there are hints that people among church congregations claiming to believe, truly didn't. Whatever their reason was, these "some" didn't believe that Jesus rose from death. When taking this into account, it's clearer how Paul is telling them how being baptized for the...

[ Thanks dear believer. Even if Paul is referring to the resurrection of mankind, his point is that we're baptized for Christ, who is living. 😊

Not baptizing the dead, but for the dead (that is, for Christ if he's still dead.) This is Pauls' point from the beginning of the chapter, For I delivered unto you first of all...that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:...And that he was seen..... how say some among you...