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  1. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    When I consulted my Brave Search Assistance about this, here is what it tells me: The principle is: the NT authors treat OT events as having a "forward-looking" dimension built into them by God's design. The dry bones of Ezekiel 37 really did point to Israel's national restoration (the...
  2. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    The more I study the Bible, the more I come to the realization (even if it's only my own realization) that the same text has many meanings and I read them in a way in which they have both a literal AND a spiritual meaning behind them.
  3. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    If we both want to be totally honest with ourselves, there is no way to completely remove bias from our ability to read scripture and how we read it. We're all different in how we perceive things because we were created that way. We were meant to see and experience things differently. I have...
  4. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    Here's the thing though, Jesus isn't only hiding the revelation of Jesus from the Jews. In the New Testament, he's hiding from some Christians, the revelation of Jesus as the God of the Old Testament. I believe the reason is due to the ability for God to fulfill all of His plans in Zechariah...
  5. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    I'm going to be perfectly honest with you here. I've seen your introduction post and I see that you are a teacher of the New Testament, but I think it's hindering your ability to spend more time and study in the Old Testament to really dig deeper into how and why the O.T. and N.T. fit together...
  6. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    I accidentally left out why I believe both the Old & New Testaments are equally important and I think it shows why Jews believe the way they do and New Testament Christians believe what they do... Jesus IS the God of the Old Testament and the New Testament; the Alpha & Omega in Isaiah 44:6...
  7. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    I disagree and the reason I do is because of the fact that there's a Millennial Kingdom at all. If the kingdom was already inaugurated, there would be no need to even mention a period of 1,000 years of peace on earth or Jesus reigning from Jerusalem and even referring to Heaven as the New...
  8. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    I guess I've always viewed this a little bit differently. I've always believed that "all Israel will be saved" included believing Jews, Gentiles, and the land of Israel itself for the purpose of the Millennial Kingdom period before the New Jerusalem made our relationship together as permanent...
  9. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    Did I miss something? I thought Ezekiel 37 was all about reuniting all of the 12 tribes of Israel to bring the "whole house of Israel" back together again. It specifically talks about reuniting the northern and southern kingdoms of Israel.
  10. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    I'd love to say that the Bible reveals everything plainly, but it clearly doesn't. This goes back to what I told you once before, if it was that easy, we would all read His word once and probably only refer back to it when we think we may have forgotten something. At least this way, it keeps...
  11. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    Good Morning, OMC! Good to hear from you! I know you feel this way, but I still don't see it that way. When the Bible goes as far as to say the elements themselves will burn and dissolve in 2 Peter 3:10, I take that literally. You do a good job of describing how you think everything is...
  12. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    You're going to have to be more direct because I've read and know all of these verses, but what I can't see is how you understand them. You need to use your own words to just tell me what you think I'm getting wrong. Please describe in your own words how you see the transition between the...
  13. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    Alright, I think I'm finally starting to get it! (y) The Millennial Kingdom period takes place with Jesus ruling over it from Heaven while Israel is technically being led by a Davidic prince on the new earth for 1,000 years growing in number and repopulating before Heaven comes down to them...
  14. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    So, when you say, "near the end of the book, Ezekiel begins to see the framing of the heavenly city and it's temple where the Messiah would enter" there is no temple in the New Jerusalem. Revelation 21 and 22 tells us that God/Jesus are the temple and the light of the city, so any actual...
  15. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    Sorry, but nothing you said made sense to me. Please clarify what you mean when you say that it "clearly points to the final restoration, not a temporary kingdom before it"? How can the restoration of earth be final if the permanent state of heaven (the New Jerusalem) has to descend down from...
  16. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    In my response, I never said that Abraham had to leave the heavenly city, but Zechariah 14:5 and Jude 1:14-15 implies that he might. Like I said, we may not be seeing Abraham until the heavenly city comes down from heaven to join the earth. Your interpretation that Zechariah 2 as only symbolic...
  17. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    Well, I couldn't reconcile the possibility of a Millennial Kingdom going on in Heaven at the same time that it's going on in the earth. Everything I look at points me back to the earth. As for the Bible verses showing that Abraham looked forward to the heavenly Jerusalem in Hebrews 11:10, he...
  18. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    I think the reason all of us are having differences of opinions is because the Bible describes the Millennial Kingdom in both an earthly and a heavenly way to such a point that it's giving me whiplash. But Revelation, chapter 7, is a scene of who comes out of the tribulation. It says that the...
  19. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    Good answer! Lots of food for thought! When you mention the 144,000 that have been redeemed from the earth, doesn't the Bible show them back on the earth? Revelation 7:3: States the seal is placed on them "on the earth" to protect them from the coming judgments. Revelation 14:1: Places them...
  20. R

    Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

    Ahhh, this discussion is getting good! I love it! I know you don't believe in an earthly Millennial Kingdom period, but what if the saints who were brought out of their graves and their "bodies" walked through Jerusalem in Matthew 27 were they're actual physical bodies and not their...